DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 29, 2024 14:42:33 GMT -5
2004 was as much or more about the coaching change than the players but 2018 is a legit reference. Craig Esherick's last three seasons shows how the expectations game has changed at Georgetown: 19-11 19-13 13-15 (deemed "unacceptable") |
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Feb 29, 2024 14:46:43 GMT -5
If we want to argue that 2004 was a dumpster fire - and at the time it certainly felt like it - then what has this last 3 years been? It's certainly been far and away worse than anything that happened since Thompson showed up.
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 29, 2024 14:48:34 GMT -5
2004 was as much or more about the coaching change than the players but 2018 is a legit reference. Craig Esherick's last three seasons shows how the expectations game has changed at Georgetown: 19-11 19-13 13-15 (deemed "unacceptable") Six years, one tournament bid, got an extension he probably shouldn't have been given that had to be paid off. |
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Feb 29, 2024 15:53:57 GMT -5
2004 was as much or more about the coaching change than the players but 2018 is a legit reference. Craig Esherick's last three seasons shows how the expectations game has changed at Georgetown: 19-11 19-13 13-15 (deemed "unacceptable") No doubt. Our expectations have been beaten down by mediocrity followed by relentless ineptitude. |
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 29, 2024 16:30:56 GMT -5
I guess I am not necessarily saying something completely different as I don't think any of the current roster could be a cornerstone to an elite team... But I do think surrounded by better talent Epps and Styles could be an excellent #3 or #4 options in a starting lineup or you surround Brumbaugh with 3-4 very good starters I do think he is a cabapable starting PG... Sure, this is probably true. For example could likely compete for or win the Big East with, say, Brumbaugh at starting point and Styles at starting small forward IF we were also starting senior Austin Freeman at SG, junior Jeff Green at PF and sophomore Greg Monroe at C. There are numerous players on the current team who are good enough to play supporting roles on winning teams, but there aren't any who are good enough to be stars on winning teams. And that's really the hard part. We have a lot of guys who are sorta "B" or "B-" caliber players, and that's OK but until you can slot them in next to one or two "A" caliber players, you're not going anywhere. There are tons of B/B- caliber players across the country--you can pretty reliably get that via the portal every off-season. But there are not any "A" caliber players in the program right now, and that's what we need to remedy. I don't see anybody on the current team with potential to become that, it's going to have to be an incoming recruit or via the portal. This has to be the top priority, whatever it takes to get them. As much as I generally skip past his drivel, most of hoyaboya 's remedy seems reasonable. Apologies for the old guy cliche, but I'm not sure if our current starting SG is a "winning player". Small shooting guards who take a ton of shots, are generally inefficient, and who don't really contribute much in other areas (defense, facilitating etc.) are not typically guys you want to build a team around. And the problem with guys like that is that when your game revolves around dominating the ball and putting up a ton of shots, they generally can't or won't accept being a role player. You're probably not winning the Big East with somebody like Epps taking 18-20 field goal attempts per night, but if he's not scoring a lot of points then he's not really good enough to warrant big minutes. That's the conundrum with players in that mold. I certainly would not suggest he should be shown the door or anything, but I'd love to recruit over him. He could be nice as a microwave 6th man, who plays big minutes on the nights when he "has it" (like he did against SJU or the SHU game at home) but play a small role when he doesn't (like both VU games, both Butler games and several others). He'd of course have to buy into that, and I'm not sure the likelihood of that.
Even though he's had a much less attention-grabbing season, it's easier for me to imagine a winning team that starts Brumbaugh at point guard + somebody new at shooting guard than it is to envision a winning team that starts Epps at SG + some newcomer at PG. I feel like any point guard you plug in next to Epps, your back court is likely going to be small and defensively challenged, and JE is still going to dominate the shots and we'll continue to rise and fall on his inefficient shooting (36.5% from the field and 25.2% from 3 point range against high majors this year--not exactly winning numbers). Where is this year's Cam Spencer-like transfer? Let's find him, and let's seal the deal this time.
Up front I believe the following to be true:
-Our defensive issues, specifically opponents 2PFG%, is the team's single biggest flaw, and I attribute that largely to the fact that we have absolutely no rim protection on the roster. Yes, poor perimeter defense plays in, but a center with a presence that could make people think twice helps to cover a lot of that up.
-Supreme Cook is an easy player to root for, he's a high effort/motor guy, and a good rebounder. But he provides no rim protection at all and is thus a net negative for his position defensively, he has no real offensive game outside of a few feet from the basket, and he can't make free throws. On a good team he's a rotation player off the bench.
-The next time we have a good team, it will prominently feature Thomas Sorber
Thus I'd make a center who can protect the rim and start next to Sorber my other top priority in the portal. Maybe Cook is a starter very early until Sorber has his feet wet, but Sorber will be a starter soon and Cook will be an energetic big guy off the bench. I'd try to give Fielder enough NIL money to be the backup center who can spread the floor and give a different look. Let me roll with:
Brumbaugh Elite SG Transfer Styles Sorber High-end transfer center who protects the rim
Epps (if he wants to be), Cook, McKenna to round out the 8 man rotation. Mulready, Fielder, Williams also receiving PT. Find a cheap ballhandler in the portal and we'd be in decent shape.
Of course, if there are other highly talented players who want to come, either because they're from the area or they have a previous relationship with our staff, I'm happy to erase the above from the whiteboard and figure out the details later. The most important thing is acquiring talent--we need "A" players, however we might get them, and with the talent deficit we have right now we can't necessarily afford to be super choosy even if our NIL budget is pretty substantial.
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kettlehill
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Post by kettlehill on Feb 29, 2024 17:47:35 GMT -5
Time
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kettlehill
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Post by kettlehill on Feb 29, 2024 18:16:52 GMT -5
Time.
I like Cooley’s old school approach, though it can be agonizingly slow for his players and us fans. High School recruits and 2-3 year transfers. The problem: right now we have an age and experience deficit, e.g.- RB and Epps are 19 and 20; the PGs for Uconn, Creighton and Marquette are all 22+. Our present talent deficit will be erased by next years incoming kids and hopefully portalers. So- maybe .500 next year in the BE and in the thick of it year three of Cooley. Or maybe 4.
Like I said-Time.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 29, 2024 18:56:53 GMT -5
Time. I like Cooley’s old school approach, though it can be agonizingly slow for his players and us fans. High School recruits and 2-3 year transfers. The problem: right now we have an age and experience deficit, e.g.- RB and Epps are 19 and 20; the PGs for Uconn, Creighton and Marquette are all 22+. Our present talent deficit will be erased by next years incoming kids and hopefully portalers. So- maybe .500 next year in the BE and in the thick of it year three of Cooley. Or maybe 4. Like I said-Time. Yeah, time is on my side, yes it is Time is on my side, yes it is You're searching for good times But just wait and see You'll come running back You'll come running back You'll come running back to me |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 1, 2024 7:41:18 GMT -5
Time. I like Cooley’s old school approach, though it can be agonizingly slow for his players and us fans. High School recruits and 2-3 year transfers. The problem: right now we have an age and experience deficit, e.g.- RB and Epps are 19 and 20; the PGs for Uconn, Creighton and Marquette are all 22+. Our present talent deficit will be erased by next years incoming kids and hopefully portalers. So- maybe .500 next year in the BE and in the thick of it year three of Cooley. Or maybe 4. Like I said-Time. Yeah, time is on my side, yes it is Time is on my side, yes it is You're searching for good times But just wait and see You'll come running back You'll come running back You'll come running back to me Didn’t they also sing 19th Nervous Breakdown and I Can’t Get No Satisfaction? |
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 1, 2024 7:52:20 GMT -5
Yeah, time is on my side, yes it is Time is on my side, yes it is You're searching for good times But just wait and see You'll come running back You'll come running back You'll come running back to me Didn’t they also sing 19th Nervous Breakdown and I Can’t Get No Satisfaction? Wild horses, couldn't drag me away Wild, wild horses, coudn't drag me away |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 1, 2024 8:00:29 GMT -5
Didn’t they also sing 19th Nervous Breakdown and I Can’t Get No Satisfaction? Wild horses, couldn't drag me away Wild, wild horses, coudn't drag me away Sadly our current results more closely resemble a Turd on the Run. |
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 1, 2024 9:17:48 GMT -5
Wild horses, couldn't drag me away Wild, wild horses, coudn't drag me away Sadly our current results more closely resemble a Turd on the Run. No, you can't always get what you want You can't always get what you want You can't always get what you want But if you try sometime you'll find You get what you need Needed: At minium, a point guard and rim protector. |
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 1, 2024 10:01:53 GMT -5
Not going to quote RB's post, for brevity, but I think it really sums it up. There are a couple of spots that seem to need an upgrade more urgently than others, but if we can get a true "A" player, at any position, we should take him. I'm not saying that we should be trying to push out all of the incumbents or anything--I think the best chance we have of success is keeping all or most of them, so that the staff can really focus on landing a couple of truly big fish--but we should be willing to take the best players we can get, even if that means upgrading one of the perceived stronger points rather than focusing exclusively on the weaker points. We're not strong enough anywhere to turn away a true difference-maker because he doesn't address our greatest needs. (With all of the caveats about demeanor, willingness to work hard, etc.)
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 1, 2024 11:01:01 GMT -5
Not going to quote RB's post, for brevity, but I think it really sums it up. There are a couple of spots that seem to need an upgrade more urgently than others, but if we can get a true "A" player, at any position, we should take him. I'm not saying that we should be trying to push out all of the incumbents or anything--I think the best chance we have of success is keeping all or most of them, so that the staff can really focus on landing a couple of truly big fish--but we should be willing to take the best players we can get, even if that means upgrading one of the perceived stronger points rather than focusing exclusively on the weaker points. We're not strong enough anywhere to turn away a true difference-maker because he doesn't address our greatest needs. (With all of the caveats about demeanor, willingness to work hard, etc.) I will just add that I hope we would prioritize ball movers. I am so tired of watching our guards dribble the air out of the ball. |
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Mar 1, 2024 15:08:57 GMT -5
Yeah, time is on my side, yes it is Time is on my side, yes it is You're searching for good times But just wait and see You'll come running back You'll come running back You'll come running back to me Didn’t they also sing 19th Nervous Breakdown and I Can’t Get No Satisfaction? I was gonna say Heartbreaker, but that's probably more JTIII's song. These last three years are more Paint it Black, or for those Allmans fans, Whippin' Post certainly fits |
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Post by bicentennial on Mar 1, 2024 18:07:39 GMT -5
I'm liking the stones songs but after the last 4 years, I think retaining players and adding both freshman and portal players to not have any gaping holes in the line up has to be the goal. Adding superstars is nice but retaining good players who help create a system and culture has to be a goal. The best teams we have had in the last ten years have all had veteran players. Bring in good players and retain them while building experience and improving quality has to be the year to year goal. Not having enough good players that you can sit a player for not playing defense has been a big problem all year.
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1789
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Post by 1789 on Mar 1, 2024 21:08:48 GMT -5
I am afraid i haven’t seen anything from coach to indicate he has the experience or will at his age to do what it will take. What’s the motivation? He is rich. He’s achieved a major goal coaching at Georgetown. He was coach of the year. He achieved more than most people on the planet.
He’s human. It seems a little unrealistic to expect him to go from a self described f- to an A at this late stage in basketball coaching career. That would be extraordinary. Any examples of anyone who’s done it? I hope there are, but I can’t think of any.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 1, 2024 22:05:51 GMT -5
I am afraid i haven’t seen anything from coach to indicate he has the experience or will at his age to do what it will take. What’s the motivation? He is rich. He’s achieved a major goal coaching at Georgetown. He was coach of the year. He achieved more than most people on the planet. He’s human. It seems a little unrealistic to expect him to go from a self described f- to an A at this late stage in basketball coaching career. That would be extraordinary. Any examples of anyone who’s done it? I hope there are, but I can’t think of any. Kelvin Sampson’s first year at Houston wasn’t exactly an F-, but he only won 4 conference games. The next year they were in the NIT and by year 4 the NCAAs. Not a perfect comparison given Sampson’s checkered past compared to Cooley, but he was around Cooley’s age when he arrived at Houston. |
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Mar 1, 2024 22:43:53 GMT -5
I am afraid i haven’t seen anything from coach to indicate he has the experience or will at his age to do what it will take. What’s the motivation? He is rich. He’s achieved a major goal coaching at Georgetown. He was coach of the year. He achieved more than most people on the planet. He’s human. It seems a little unrealistic to expect him to go from a self described f- to an A at this late stage in basketball coaching career. That would be extraordinary. Any examples of anyone who’s done it? I hope there are, but I can’t think of any. Totally disagree. Have never gotten that vibe from EC. He certainly doesn't want to go out on a "meh" note, no way. He wants one more crowning achievement: a rebuild and genuine run(s) at a championship at a school with a high ceiling, special brand, and resources and prestige that were not to be had at Providence. He's in it to win it -- or at the very, very least pull us up out of the ashes, dust us off, and make us strong and proud again. Let's check in on this this time next year and see if you feel the same. |
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Mar 2, 2024 0:59:09 GMT -5
I am afraid i haven’t seen anything from coach to indicate he has the experience or will at his age to do what it will take. What’s the motivation? He is rich. He’s achieved a major goal coaching at Georgetown. He was coach of the year. He achieved more than most people on the planet. He’s human. It seems a little unrealistic to expect him to go from a self described f- to an A at this late stage in basketball coaching career. That would be extraordinary. Any examples of anyone who’s done it? I hope there are, but I can’t think of any. Kelvin Sampson’s first year at Houston wasn’t exactly an F-, but he only won 4 conference games. The next year they were in the NIT and by year 4 the NCAAs. Not a perfect comparison given Sampson’s checkered past compared to Cooley, but he was around Cooley’s age when he arrived at Houston. I'd feel a lot better if Cooley had anywhere near the pre Houston Sampson resume. |
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