The difference between Cooley and Pitino

[gambo]

After the St. John’s loss:

It’s hard,” Coach Ed Cooley said. “I don’t know the last time we’ve won a game. Right now, we have to coach their heart a little bit. We have to coach with some love and compassion and empathy. We all want to win. ... It’s just not in the books right now.”

“I want our men to feel good about the process ... we are going through, because we have improved,” he said. “It hasn’t been a seismic improvement, but we got better today, and that’s what I’m going to go off of.”

[DFW HOYA]

Feb 22, 2024 7:05:34 GMT -5 gambo said:

After the St. John’s loss:

It’s hard,” Coach Ed Cooley said. “I don’t know the last time we’ve won a game. Right now, we have to coach their heart a little bit. We have to coach with some love and compassion and empathy. We all want to win. ... It’s just not in the books right now.”

“I want our men to feel good about the process ... we are going through, because we have improved,” he said. “It hasn’t been a seismic improvement, but we got better today, and that’s what I’m going to go off of.”

Cooley is trying to build a culture of retention - if everyone got up and left (again) and it's the freshmen and eight transfers, there is no progress, so he's got to refrain from calling them out. By contrast, Pitino's mea culpa is an acquisition strategy--he loses five fifth year players in Soriano, Dingle, Ledlum, Alleyne and Conway and will need 5-7 new transfers just to compete. His tirade may have cost him with the coaches and transfers considering SJU, which is why Repole's comments read as a backstop to concerns that Pitino is scaring off recruits.

I don't think anyone on Cooley's staff would have predicted how this team regressed on defense the way it did, but it needs to hold together. There are a lot of seniors and 5th years at Creighton, Marquette, Villanova, and Xavier that will need to be backfilled next season, so there is plenty of room to move up the standings IF there is a culture that welcomes and retains players.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Feb 22, 2024 10:03:32 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Feb 22, 2024 7:05:34 GMT -5 gambo said:

After the St. John’s loss:

It’s hard,” Coach Ed Cooley said. “I don’t know the last time we’ve won a game. Right now, we have to coach their heart a little bit. We have to coach with some love and compassion and empathy. We all want to win. ... It’s just not in the books right now.”

“I want our men to feel good about the process ... we are going through, because we have improved,” he said. “It hasn’t been a seismic improvement, but we got better today, and that’s what I’m going to go off of.”

Cooley is trying to build a culture of retention - if everyone got up and left (again) and it's the freshmen and eight transfers, there is no progress, so he's got to refrain from calling them out. By contrast, Pitino's mea culpa is an acquisition strategy--he loses five fifth year players in Soriano, Dingle, Ledlum, Alleyne and Conway and will need 5-7 new transfers just to compete. His tirade may have cost him with the coaches and transfers considering SJU, which is why Repole's comments read as a backstop to concerns that Pitino is scaring off recruits.

I don't think anyone on Cooley's staff would have predicted how this team regressed on defense the way it did, but it needs to hold together. There are a lot of seniors and 5th years at Creighton, Marquette, Villanova, and Xavier that will need to be backfilled next season, so there is plenty of room to move up the standings IF there is a culture that welcomes and retains players.

I'll be interested to see if Pitino can hold Dunlap, Wilcher and the younger pieces of their roster. You can't have all new pieces every year. Pitino also took on too many players. You can't keep everybody happy. Jenkins is there best returning piece. They'll need to go big again on the transfer wire.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Over time I have wavered back and forth on a strategy for next season's roster. In another thread, there was a lot of debate about the "core" (Epps, Brumbaugh, Fielder, Styles, Cook) going into next season. And I absolutely do not want to start that debate all over. That said, especially with four freshman coming in, I really do think it would be beneficial to maintain all of them, keep our 4 freshman, and supplement with the portal. It is unrealistic in this day and age to expect 0 transfers, but I think Seton Hall's example really shows the value of retaining players. I also think we are so used to roster upheaval from the Ewing days, and then Cooley's necessary roster reconstruction, that it seems like not a problem to have wholesale changes.

But, I really do think there is value to retention, and that's one thing Cooley has been pretty good at doing. Before this season, nobody on the roster played with one another on the same college team other than our returning players. And I think that showed. That said, I truly think Cooley needs to upgrade the roster and land some high level portal talent. But, I think if we can do that AND retain some of our players that will be ideal. And I think retention will become even more important when the super senior/5th year guys are done and the overall talent pool becomes younger again.

And I think there are good reasons for it too:
- Epps - We already know he's a great scorer at times. I think if he can be surrounded by better players, and play more off ball he'll do better.
- Brumbaugh - He's already shown a lot of growth.
- Fielder - More limited than Brumbaugh, but he's also played less. But he's a big who can shoot a three. He has to get stronger and improve on defense (everyone returning does).
- Styles - He has talent and has shown glimpses of what he can do. We only have him for one more year, but he can be a valuable piece. And he can improve.
- Cook - I am not really optimistic Cook can improve a ton on the offensive end. I think he's skilled but just cannot overcome bigger/stronger bigs like Soriano last night. But, he can improve on defense.

I think by writing this post I am inadvertently getting myself excited for a better season next year. But, I really think it's there.

[RBHoya]

Feb 22, 2024 11:42:12 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

That said, I truly think Cooley needs to upgrade the roster and land some high level portal talent. But, I think if we can do that AND retain some of our players that will be ideal.

Yes.

But..this is really hard to do. We know the previous regime never could, but these days even good teams usually lose a couple underclassmen to transfer every year and you'd think that would only be exacerbated by going 2-18 or so in league. So I suspect that the reality will end up somewhere in between. It won't be a total abandoning of ship like we've seen in recent years, but if/when we bring in some good players from the portal it will probably lead some of our current players to see what else is out there for them.

There's not a single player in the list that you mentioned who I'd say I don't want back. For instance, I really hope we can bring both Brumbaugh and Fielder back next year as sophomores. But if the price of doing so is that we cannot pursue or land a better point guard or center in the portal, I don't think we can accept that. If they are willing to accept backup roles as sophs and try to grow into starting jobs in their junior or senior years, fantastic. Unfortunately, that mentality is dying out. If Cooley can keep guys like that in the fold despite recruiting over them via the portal, that would be a very good sign for our trajectory over the coming years.

[DallasHoya]

Feb 22, 2024 11:42:12 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Over time I have wavered back and forth on a strategy for next season's roster. In another thread, there was a lot of debate about the "core" (Epps, Brumbaugh, Fielder, Styles, Cook) going into next season. And I absolutely do not want to start that debate all over. That said, especially with four freshman coming in, I really do think it would be beneficial to maintain all of them, keep our 4 freshman, and supplement with the portal. It is unrealistic in this day and age to expect 0 transfers, but I think Seton Hall's example really shows the value of retaining players. I also think we are so used to roster upheaval from the Ewing days, and then Cooley's necessary roster reconstruction, that it seems like not a problem to have wholesale changes.

But, I really do think there is value to retention, and that's one thing Cooley has been pretty good at doing. Before this season, nobody on the roster played with one another on the same college team other than our returning players. And I think that showed. That said, I truly think Cooley needs to upgrade the roster and land some high level portal talent. But, I think if we can do that AND retain some of our players that will be ideal. And I think retention will become even more important when the super senior/5th year guys are done and the overall talent pool becomes younger again.

And I think there are good reasons for it too:
- Epps - We already know he's a great scorer at times. I think if he can be surrounded by better players, and play more off ball he'll do better.
- Brumbaugh - He's already shown a lot of growth.
- Fielder - More limited than Brumbaugh, but he's also played less. But he's a big who can shoot a three. He has to get stronger and improve on defense (everyone returning does).
- Styles - He has talent and has shown glimpses of what he can do. We only have him for one more year, but he can be a valuable piece. And he can improve.
- Cook - I am not really optimistic Cook can improve a ton on the offensive end. I think he's skilled but just cannot overcome bigger/stronger bigs like Soriano last night. But, he can improve on defense.

I think by writing this post I am inadvertently getting myself excited for a better season next year. But, I really think it's there.

I unfortunately don't share your excitement. While your analysis of the players individually might make sense, collectively, these guys are 1-14 in the Big East and are non-competitive on most nights. I don't know why, but the result is significantly less than the sum of it parts.

[Elvado]

A couple of titles leap instantly to mind…

[hoyasaxa2003]

Feb 22, 2024 14:08:13 GMT -5 DallasHoya said:

Feb 22, 2024 11:42:12 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Over time I have wavered back and forth on a strategy for next season's roster. In another thread, there was a lot of debate about the "core" (Epps, Brumbaugh, Fielder, Styles, Cook) going into next season. And I absolutely do not want to start that debate all over. That said, especially with four freshman coming in, I really do think it would be beneficial to maintain all of them, keep our 4 freshman, and supplement with the portal. It is unrealistic in this day and age to expect 0 transfers, but I think Seton Hall's example really shows the value of retaining players. I also think we are so used to roster upheaval from the Ewing days, and then Cooley's necessary roster reconstruction, that it seems like not a problem to have wholesale changes.

But, I really do think there is value to retention, and that's one thing Cooley has been pretty good at doing. Before this season, nobody on the roster played with one another on the same college team other than our returning players. And I think that showed. That said, I truly think Cooley needs to upgrade the roster and land some high level portal talent. But, I think if we can do that AND retain some of our players that will be ideal. And I think retention will become even more important when the super senior/5th year guys are done and the overall talent pool becomes younger again.

And I think there are good reasons for it too:
- Epps - We already know he's a great scorer at times. I think if he can be surrounded by better players, and play more off ball he'll do better.
- Brumbaugh - He's already shown a lot of growth.
- Fielder - More limited than Brumbaugh, but he's also played less. But he's a big who can shoot a three. He has to get stronger and improve on defense (everyone returning does).
- Styles - He has talent and has shown glimpses of what he can do. We only have him for one more year, but he can be a valuable piece. And he can improve.
- Cook - I am not really optimistic Cook can improve a ton on the offensive end. I think he's skilled but just cannot overcome bigger/stronger bigs like Soriano last night. But, he can improve on defense.

I think by writing this post I am inadvertently getting myself excited for a better season next year. But, I really think it's there.

I unfortunately don't share your excitement. While your analysis of the players individually might make sense, collectively, these guys are 1-14 in the Big East and are non-competitive on most nights. I don't know why, but the result is significantly less than the sum of it parts.

Any excitement I have has little to do with Epps/Brumbaugh/Fielder/Styles/Cook coming back, and more with what we are adding via the freshman and hopefully portal. But, I do think there is value to retention of all of those 5. The one player on that list who gives me the most conflicted feelings is Cook. He's high motor, seems to be a good guy, and has really given it his all this year, but he just doesn't have the defensive chops he needs. So, either he plays less and we get more talented defensive bigs, he gets better (after 4 years, seemingly unlikely but not impossible), or our defense at the rim remains a huge problem. We cannot afford the latter. I don't think Cooley will do it, but I think a complete overhaul of the frontcourt through the portal would be justifiable.

[seaweed]

Anybody dissing Cook hasn’t heard what opposing coaches have to say about him.