Georgetown - St Johns 2/21/24 Discussion

[DanMcQ]

Another winnable game. Time to win.

[FrazierFanatic]

"winnable" is unfortunately just a theoretical term when it comes to our 2023-24 Georgetown Hoyas.

[SSHoya]

Feb 18, 2024 14:45:16 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

"winnable" is unfortunately just a theoretical term when it comes to our 2023-24 Georgetown Hoyas.

How about the Hoyas can be "competitive" with SJU?

[TC]

Feb 18, 2024 14:51:41 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Feb 18, 2024 14:45:16 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

"winnable" is unfortunately just a theoretical term when it comes to our 2023-24 Georgetown Hoyas.

How about the Hoyas can be "competitive" with SJU?

It'd be great to try scoring more points than they do.

[SSHoya]

Feb 18, 2024 15:23:39 GMT -5 TC said:

Feb 18, 2024 14:51:41 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

How about the Hoyas can be "competitive" with SJU?

It'd be great to try scoring more points than they do.

Heck, I think they try - they're just not very good at it! Never mistake effort for achievement.

[SSHoya]

Hoyas face a desperate SJU after it blows 12 pt halftime lead, open the second half shooting 1-14 and lose to SHU.

SJU trying to keep its slim hopes of an at-large bid alive. Supposedly one of the first 4 out.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Ironically, if Georgetown beats any of the bubble teams, we could crush their NCAA dreams. It'd be kind of fun to do that to St. John's. Or anybody else we can beat. I view beating DePaul as a necessary outcome. I won't be truly happy with a win until we beat someone else. Might as well start with St. John's.

[DFW HOYA]

Feb 18, 2024 19:18:39 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Hoyas face a desperate SJU after it blows 12 pt halftime lead, open the second half shooting 1-14 and lose to SHU.

SJU trying to keep its slim hopes of an at-large bid alive. Supposedly one of the first 4 out.

At 14-12 they're out barring a big win over Creighton. Redmen are 2-8 in their last 10 games. The SOS needed to end the season strong is poor:

at Georgetown (Quad 4)
CREIGHTON/MSG (Quad 1)
at Butler (Quad 1)
at DePaul (Quad 4)
GEORGETOWN/MSG (Quad 4)

[SSHoya]

Feb 18, 2024 19:29:06 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Feb 18, 2024 19:18:39 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Hoyas face a desperate SJU after it blows 12 pt halftime lead, open the second half shooting 1-14 and lose to SHU.

SJU trying to keep its slim hopes of an at-large bid alive. Supposedly one of the first 4 out.

At 14-12 they're out barring a big win over Creighton. Redmen are 2-8 in their last 10 games. The SOS needed to end the season strong is poor:

at Georgetown (Quad 4)
CREIGHTON/MSG (Quad 1)
at Butler (Quad 1)
at DePaul (Quad 4)
GEORGETOWN/MSG (Quad 4)

A Quad 4 loss to Hoyas on Wednesday would also knock them out? Wouldn't a SJU win against Creighton then be meaningless?

[hoyasaxa2003]

Feb 18, 2024 19:29:06 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Feb 18, 2024 19:18:39 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Hoyas face a desperate SJU after it blows 12 pt halftime lead, open the second half shooting 1-14 and lose to SHU.

SJU trying to keep its slim hopes of an at-large bid alive. Supposedly one of the first 4 out.

At 14-12 they're out barring a big win over Creighton. Redmen are 2-8 in their last 10 games. The SOS needed to end the season strong is poor:

at Georgetown (Quad 4)
CREIGHTON/MSG (Quad 1)
at Butler (Quad 1)
at DePaul (Quad 4)
GEORGETOWN/MSG (Quad 4)

This does show the top-25 Pitino projections were over the top pre-season hype. Pitino is an amazing coach, and we would have clearly been better this year with him at the helm, but even with the portal and free transfers and NIL, there's only so quick someone can turn around a program. That said, St. John's recent losses notwithstanding, he turned around the roster, and has the best St. John's team in years. St. John's offensive ranking on KenPom went from 111 to 48, and defense from 56 to 45. Pitino is clearly making the program better, and I imagine they'll be even better next year depending on what pieces Pitino snags from the portal.

Overall, St. John's is ranked 42 on KenPom right now. KenPom keeps overall ranking records back to 1997 now. Since 1997, St. John's has been ABOVE 42 just four times, and three of those were 1998-2000. So, Pitino is working his magic. It just takes time, even for all time greats. Of course, this is why I wanted him as our coach.

[hoyaatheart55]

I will be in attendance for this one. Let’s get a dub.

[DanMcQ]

Now THIS is throwing your players under the bus.

[TC]

Those aren't even the worst quotes Dan! I think the AJ Storr quote and the facilities one might get him in some trouble.

[DanMcQ]

[thedragon]

Feb 18, 2024 20:01:01 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Feb 18, 2024 19:29:06 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

At 14-12 they're out barring a big win over Creighton. Redmen are 2-8 in their last 10 games. The SOS needed to end the season strong is poor:

at Georgetown (Quad 4)
CREIGHTON/MSG (Quad 1)
at Butler (Quad 1)
at DePaul (Quad 4)
GEORGETOWN/MSG (Quad 4)

This does show the top-25 Pitino projections were over the top pre-season hype. Pitino is an amazing coach, and we would have clearly been better this year with him at the helm, but even with the portal and free transfers and NIL, there's only so quick someone can turn around a program. That said, St. John's recent losses notwithstanding, he turned around the roster, and has the best St. John's team in years. St. John's offensive ranking on KenPom went from 111 to 48, and defense from 56 to 45. Pitino is clearly making the program better, and I imagine they'll be even better next year depending on what pieces Pitino snags from the portal.

Overall, St. John's is ranked 42 on KenPom right now. KenPom keeps overall ranking records back to 1997 now. Since 1997, St. John's has been ABOVE 42 just four times, and three of those were 1998-2000. So, Pitino is working his magic. It just takes time, even for all time greats. Of course, this is why I wanted him as our coach.

They spent triple then what they had ever spent before as a program on players. Their fanbase had second weekend aspirations. They're going to finish record wise very similarly to last year under Anderson . If you think that's magic - you should see what David Copperfield is up to.

[hoyajmw]

Pitino’s post game comments are the most inexcusable I’ve ever seen, by miles. Whether they are true or not is besides the point. You CANNOT blame players, many by name, for not having the talent to win. Anyone who defends or tries to justify such remarks has jumped the shark themselves. I was one of those who would’ve been fine hiring Pitino. No more. I hope he gets fired and never coaches again..

[practice]

Feb 19, 2024 8:05:29 GMT -5 hoyajmw said:

Pitino’s post game comments are the most inexcusable I’ve ever seen, by miles. Whether they are true or not is besides the point. You CANNOT blame players, many by name, for not having the talent to win. Anyone who defends or tries to justify such remarks has jumped the shark themselves. I was one of those who would’ve been fine hiring Pitino. No more. I hope he gets fired and never coaches again..

I'm sorry but in an era where many/all of the players mentioned are getting paid by SJU-arranged NIL money ... I think it's not completely out of line.   Also, who knows what sort of sick mind games/motivational techniques Pitino is employing ... we'll see this week how his team responds ... perhaps naysayers will be right and his comments will lose him his team ... I suspect that they will look pretty sharp this week.  

[hoyajmw]

Feb 19, 2024 9:03:54 GMT -5 practice said:

Feb 19, 2024 8:05:29 GMT -5 hoyajmw said:

Pitino’s post game comments are the most inexcusable I’ve ever seen, by miles. Whether they are true or not is besides the point. You CANNOT blame players, many by name, for not having the talent to win. Anyone who defends or tries to justify such remarks has jumped the shark themselves. I was one of those who would’ve been fine hiring Pitino. No more. I hope he gets fired and never coaches again..

I'm sorry but in an era where many/all of the players mentioned are getting paid by SJU-arranged NIL money ... I think it's not completely out of line.   Also, who knows what sort of sick mind games/motivational techniques Pitino is employing ... we'll see this week how his team responds ... perhaps naysayers will be right and his comments will lose him his team ... I suspect that they will look pretty sharp this week.  

They are still someone's kids who HE recruited to pay, AND for the coach to blame players -- even if they are explicitly professional -- is just wrong, always has been and always will be. And if there was some sense of self-blame I might feel different, but to say "the players just aren't good enough..." (SMH) Interesting article in NY Post by Mike Vacacaro this am, with headline that actually reads "Rick Pitino blaming everyone but himself for first year St. John's failure is terrible look." Interesting stats about Pitino's record of having big success second, not first year, in his prior stops of interest (which is what the on-line editors seized on to soften the actual article I guess).

nypost.com/2024/02/18/sports/dont-overreact-to-rick-pitinos-first-year-failure-at-st-johns/

[TC]

Feb 19, 2024 9:03:54 GMT -5 practice said:

Feb 19, 2024 8:05:29 GMT -5 hoyajmw said:

Pitino’s post game comments are the most inexcusable I’ve ever seen, by miles. Whether they are true or not is besides the point. You CANNOT blame players, many by name, for not having the talent to win. Anyone who defends or tries to justify such remarks has jumped the shark themselves. I was one of those who would’ve been fine hiring Pitino. No more. I hope he gets fired and never coaches again..

I'm sorry but in an era where many/all of the players mentioned are getting paid by SJU-arranged NIL money ... I think it's not completely out of line.   Also, who knows what sort of sick mind games/motivational techniques Pitino is employing ... we'll see this week how his team responds ... perhaps naysayers will be right and his comments will lose him his team ... I suspect that they will look pretty sharp this week.  

Whether it's okay to criticize a player publicly because you consider a player a professional rather than a student isn't the only issue here - how does it affect your recruiting if you slam Joel Soriano again and again by name in the press and screw up his draft odds? What recruit in their right mind is going to sign on with St. John's after watching Pitino call out his roster like this?

This is the kind of move that John Calipari wouldn't do.

[hoyaboya]

Feb 19, 2024 9:40:30 GMT -5 TC said:

Feb 19, 2024 9:03:54 GMT -5 practice said:

I'm sorry but in an era where many/all of the players mentioned are getting paid by SJU-arranged NIL money ... I think it's not completely out of line.   Also, who knows what sort of sick mind games/motivational techniques Pitino is employing ... we'll see this week how his team responds ... perhaps naysayers will be right and his comments will lose him his team ... I suspect that they will look pretty sharp this week.  

Whether it's okay to criticize a player publicly because you consider a player a professional rather than a student isn't the only issue here - how does it affect your recruiting if you slam Joel Soriano again and again by name in the press and screw up his draft odds? What recruit in their right mind is going to sign on with St. John's after watching Pitino call out his roster like this?

This is the kind of move that John Calipari wouldn't do.

Great example, Calipari has had a very difficult time getting talented guys to join his team.