jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Feb 10, 2024 16:28:13 GMT -5
Well, it was pretty much what I expected. Not pretty.
Styles had a great game.
I thought RB played better. I definitely think he is part of the solution going foward.
I am increasingly concerned that Fielder will not succeed at this level. He is too small to play the 5 and he is too immobile to play the periimeter. He had a nice 3, and he has better than average vision, but I am not sure he has enough.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 10, 2024 16:30:45 GMT -5
Can you walk and chew gum? Moderator comment: take it down a notch and have more respect for fellow posters here. I did and I do. I didn’t call him names, etc… nor did I violate any rules. That quote was written in the context of the conversation we were having.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Feb 10, 2024 16:32:59 GMT -5
Planning for the future is from days in the past, unfortunately. With the portal, NIL,etc. the future is now. Yes and no. Most top teams have their core they recruit and hold on to, to get them to the NBA (or will as one or two long term players through the portal). Looking at the tournament the last 2 or 3 years the sweet 16 has 8 to 10 teams that are mature teams that grew together. Many of the long time top teams who lose players to the pros or a few to transfers struggle to get a team to gel and have top end success. But, many of the programs doing well from the big 5 and BE are recruiting 2 or 3 and pick up from the portal 2 or 3. Many times the portal pick-ups are players they initially recruited. The transfer portal and NIL changed things, but seems to have destabilized top end teams from their usual high end success (as losing top players to pros and transfer portal), but the levels below them have seemed to maintain some stability and are getting to the tournament. The top 50 talent is thinner in NCAA due to G-League Ignite, other pro leagues aimed at high school and recent grads. The top end talent that gets to the NBA is a smaller pool from the NCAA. Maximizing NIL may drive things more for players that don't have an NBA avenue and other looking to get exposure through the portal have a difficult time as teams getting exposure are only picking up one or two players. The world changed quite a bit, but also stayed somewhat the same. Recruiting still matters a lot, whether for new college recruit or second team to transfer to. The coaches who recruit well and have deep books with relationships will continue to do well, but in a different way.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 10, 2024 16:35:18 GMT -5
Agree. And by organization I hope he means the university.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Feb 10, 2024 16:53:58 GMT -5
Cooley has to get guys who play hard due to internal motivation, who are not dependent on a coach to motivate them to play hard. A coach can only motivate a player so much -- the primary motivation has to be internal. We have not had a core of guys who are wired to play hard on this team in a long, long time.
My favorite college player to watch this year, by far, is Devin Carter. That guy plays at full effort 100% of the time. He is talented, but it is his relentless effort that makes him a special player. Cooley clearly knows how to find and recruit the right competitive mindset, his Providence teams always had it. Hopefully this cultural shift starts to show on the court next year as we transition more Cooley players into the program and these guys gain some experience.
For the rest of this year - as others have said, the best thing he can do is give Brumbaugh and Fielder lots of playing time. Not just because they are frosh with a potential future in the program, but because they appear to play hard consistently. Cook certainly gives full effort all the time, and Bristol seems to play hard. Beyond this - Epps and Styles are both talented, but both seem sloppy defensively, ,and Epps is certainly careless with the ball too often offensively. Epps and Styles will probably still be on the team next year, but I won't be surprised if they start to lose playing time to some of the incoming transfers/freshmen if they don't lock in with their intensity level far beyond what they have done much of the time this year. And I won't be completely shocked if one or both of them (Epps more likely than Styles) ends up transferring out if Cooley tells them that their minutes are at risk if they don't step up the effort and focus.
And like others - moving Heath and Massoud to 10-15 minute per game roles seems entirely appropriate at this point. If we had any functional depth, it would be even better if we could fully bench both of them. But we probably need to keep them in the rotation since we only have walk-ons behind them on the bench.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Feb 10, 2024 16:54:48 GMT -5
Well, it was pretty much what I expected. Not pretty. Styles had a great game. I thought RB played better. I definitely think he is part of the solution going foward. I am increasingly concerned that Fielder will not succeed at this level. He is too small to play the 5 and he is too immobile to play the periimeter. He had a nice 3, and he has better than average vision, but I am not sure he has enough. I really wanted a game closer than 20, but feared it to be much worse. Fielder I don't think will be a 5, but with work with good coaching his covering smaller players can improve quite a bit. Hoyas now have good assistant coaches that have done well working with players at Providence and seen good progress on skills. But, Fielders strength is a stretch big and there isn't a lot of that in the BE and creates a miss match offensively (and he has good vision, good picks, good box outs), and with a solid big in the middle to cut off runs to the paint that will help where he is more deficient. I don't know that he will be All-BE, but he has a lot to offer. He has added size and strength and kept (and improved) his outside shot. It is the tough match-ups that Fielder provides outside and as he adjust to play inside with cutting as well. With work, Fielder could easily fit the NBA model the Celtics like of big shooting wings or a baby Markkanen. He is still adjusting to D1 and by Junior year may have adjusted his game to defend well against smaller players (it will be a lot of not so fun footwork and hip drills).
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 10, 2024 16:57:23 GMT -5
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Feb 10, 2024 17:01:02 GMT -5
Cooley has to get guys who play hard due to internal motivation, who are not dependent on a coach to motivate them to play hard. A coach can only motivate a player so much -- the primary motivation has to be internal. We have not had a core of guys who are wired to play hard on this team in a long, long time. My favorite college player to watch this year, by far, is Devin Carter. That guy plays at full effort 100% of the time. He is talented, but it is his relentless effort that makes him a special player. Cooley clearly knows how to find and recruit the right competitive mindset, his Providence teams always had it. Hopefully this cultural shift starts to show on the court next year as we transition more Cooley players into the program and these guys gain some experience. For the rest of this year - as others have said, the best thing he can do is give Brumbaugh and Fielder lots of playing time. Not just because they are frosh with a potential future in the program, but because they appear to play hard consistently. Cook certainly gives full effort all the time, and Bristol seems to play hard. Beyond this - Epps and Styles are both talented, but both seem sloppy defensively, ,and Epps is certainly careless with the ball too often offensively. Epps and Styles will probably still be on the team next year, but I won't be surprised if they start to lose playing time to some of the incoming transfers/freshmen if they don't lock in with their intensity level far beyond what they have done much of the time this year. And I won't be completely shocked if one or both of them (Epps more likely than Styles) ends up transferring out if Cooley tells them that their minutes are at risk if they don't step up the effort and focus. And like others - moving Heath and Massoud to 10-15 minute per game roles seems entirely appropriate at this point. If we had any functional depth, it would be even better if we could fully bench both of them. But we probably need to keep them in the rotation since we only have walk-ons behind them on the bench. I really like this and agree. I think Cooley has three players next year coming to play who have this: Mulready, McKenna, and Sorber. Mulready and McKenna seem to fit this mold well. I don't know a ton about Sorber, but bits I've seen he may fit this well.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 10, 2024 17:02:42 GMT -5
Well, it was pretty much what I expected. Not pretty. Styles had a great game. I thought RB played better. I definitely think he is part of the solution going foward. I am increasingly concerned that Fielder will not succeed at this level. He is too small to play the 5 and he is too immobile to play the periimeter. He had a nice 3, and he has better than average vision, but I am not sure he has enough. I really wanted a game closer than 20, but feared it to be much worse. Fielder I don't think will be a 5, but with work with good coaching his covering smaller players can improve quite a bit. Hoyas now have good assistant coaches that have done well working with players at Providence and seen good progress on skills. But, Fielders strength is a stretch big and there isn't a lot of that in the BE and creates a miss match offensively (and he has good vision, good picks, good box outs), and with a solid big in the middle to cut off runs to the paint that will help where he is more deficient. I don't know that he will be All-BE, but he has a lot to offer. He has added size and strength and kept (and improved) his outside shot. It is the tough match-ups that Fielder provides outside and as he adjust to play inside with cutting as well. With work, Fielder could easily fit the NBA model the Celtics like of big shooting wings or a baby Markkanen. He is still adjusting to D1 and by Junior year may have adjusted his game to defend well against smaller players (it will be a lot of not so fun footwork and hip drills). On the right team Fielder could be very good as a 3/4 who can shoot the 3 and help on the boards. Unfortunately, I’m not convinced we are building that team.
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Post by centercourt400s on Feb 10, 2024 17:03:17 GMT -5
There’s not much point talking about the game itself. But I will say this: If we’re really talking about Cooley building “culture”, then Heath and Massoud would be on the bench and Rowan and either Bristol or Fielder should start. Rowan and Fielder aren’t perfect, but they’re at least trying. Effort has to be the table stakes to play for Gtown. I won't argue that Ish should continue to start over Fielder. Let's get Feilder in there learning. But I don't think we should be questioning Ish's level of effort. He plays hard and he appears to be really trying to do what the team needs. His obvious problem though is that he is a three point specialist that can't hit threes.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Feb 10, 2024 17:03:48 GMT -5
Engaged some very civil UConn fans at the Irish Channel postgame. FWIW, they think Cooley can return the Hoyas to respectability. I need more than respectability.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 10, 2024 17:05:54 GMT -5
Engaged some very civil UConn fans at the Irish Channel postgame. FWIW, they think Cooley can return the Hoyas to respectability. I need more than respectability. Baby steps You gotta walk b4 you run. Respectability to me is being on the bubble.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Feb 10, 2024 17:06:24 GMT -5
Planning for the future is from days in the past, unfortunately. With the portal, NIL,etc. the future is now. Yes and no. Most top teams have their core they recruit and hold on to, to get them to the NBA (or will as one or two long term players through the portal). Looking at the tournament the last 2 or 3 years the sweet 16 has 8 to 10 teams that are mature teams that grew together. Many of the long time top teams who lose players to the pros or a few to transfers struggle to get a team to gel and have top end success. But, many of the programs doing well from the big 5 and BE are recruiting 2 or 3 and pick up from the portal 2 or 3. Many times the portal pick-ups are players they initially recruited. The transfer portal and NIL changed things, but seems to have destabilized top end teams from their usual high end success (as losing top players to pros and transfer portal), but the levels below them have seemed to maintain some stability and are getting to the tournament. The top 50 talent is thinner in NCAA due to G-League Ignite, other pro leagues aimed at high school and recent grads. The top end talent that gets to the NBA is a smaller pool from the NCAA. Maximizing NIL may drive things more for players that don't have an NBA avenue and other looking to get exposure through the portal have a difficult time as teams getting exposure are only picking up one or two players. The world changed quite a bit, but also stayed somewhat the same. Recruiting still matters a lot, whether for new college recruit or second team to transfer to. The coaches who recruit well and have deep books with relationships will continue to do well, but in a different way. I get what you are saying, but 2 or 3 years ago is a lifetime ago given how things have changed and continue to change. It is hard to not look through the lens of what we've used previously.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Feb 10, 2024 17:07:39 GMT -5
I really wanted a game closer than 20, but feared it to be much worse. Fielder I don't think will be a 5, but with work with good coaching his covering smaller players can improve quite a bit. Hoyas now have good assistant coaches that have done well working with players at Providence and seen good progress on skills. But, Fielders strength is a stretch big and there isn't a lot of that in the BE and creates a miss match offensively (and he has good vision, good picks, good box outs), and with a solid big in the middle to cut off runs to the paint that will help where he is more deficient. I don't know that he will be All-BE, but he has a lot to offer. He has added size and strength and kept (and improved) his outside shot. It is the tough match-ups that Fielder provides outside and as he adjust to play inside with cutting as well. With work, Fielder could easily fit the NBA model the Celtics like of big shooting wings or a baby Markkanen. He is still adjusting to D1 and by Junior year may have adjusted his game to defend well against smaller players (it will be a lot of not so fun footwork and hip drills). On the right team Fielder could be very good as a 3/4 who can shoot the 3 and help on the boards. Unfortunately, I’m not convinced we are building that team. There is not a 3 in the country that Fielder will ever be able to guard. I think the staff has realized this, which is why they’re bulking him up to be able to guard 5s someday.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 10, 2024 17:18:04 GMT -5
His obvious problem though is that he is a three point specialist that can't hit threes. IMO, our offense does not help Ish succeed. He's not good enough to just take his, and he doesn't shoot well off the dribble. He is a stand still three point shooter. We rarely run plays to free him up for his shot, to get him good looks, which, for me, is one of the most disappointing aspects of our offense.
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Post by bobcat on Feb 10, 2024 17:25:04 GMT -5
I wasn't very excited when they hired Cooley. Pretty much feel the same.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 10, 2024 17:38:37 GMT -5
Cooley has to get guys who play hard due to internal motivation, who are not dependent on a coach to motivate them to play hard. A coach can only motivate a player so much -- the primary motivation has to be internal. We have not had a core of guys who are wired to play hard on this team in a long, long time. My favorite college player to watch this year, by far, is Devin Carter. That guy plays at full effort 100% of the time. He is talented, but it is his relentless effort that makes him a special player. Cooley clearly knows how to find and recruit the right competitive mindset, his Providence teams always had it. Hopefully this cultural shift starts to show on the court next year as we transition more Cooley players into the program and these guys gain some experience. For the rest of this year - as others have said, the best thing he can do is give Brumbaugh and Fielder lots of playing time. Not just because they are frosh with a potential future in the program, but because they appear to play hard consistently. Cook certainly gives full effort all the time, and Bristol seems to play hard. Beyond this - Epps and Styles are both talented, but both seem sloppy defensively, ,and Epps is certainly careless with the ball too often offensively. Epps and Styles will probably still be on the team next year, but I won't be surprised if they start to lose playing time to some of the incoming transfers/freshmen if they don't lock in with their intensity level far beyond what they have done much of the time this year. And I won't be completely shocked if one or both of them (Epps more likely than Styles) ends up transferring out if Cooley tells them that their minutes are at risk if they don't step up the effort and focus. And like others - moving Heath and Massoud to 10-15 minute per game roles seems entirely appropriate at this point. If we had any functional depth, it would be even better if we could fully bench both of them. But we probably need to keep them in the rotation since we only have walk-ons behind them on the bench. Agree with most of this, except Epps has the look of a guy who will NOT be on this roster next season. To say he mailed it in today would be an insult to the postal service.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 10, 2024 17:41:37 GMT -5
On the right team Fielder could be very good as a 3/4 who can shoot the 3 and help on the boards. Unfortunately, I’m not convinced we are building that team. There is not a 3 in the country that Fielder will ever be able to guard. I think the staff has realized this, which is why they’re bulking him up to be able to guard 5s someday. Yeah, defense would be an issue - but I'd have him covering the 4 spot, not the 3. In any case, he has a long way to go to become adequate defensively, but so does the whole team. On a good team he's the second or third guy off your bench, contributing at those spots.
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Post by centercourt400s on Feb 10, 2024 17:56:48 GMT -5
His obvious problem though is that he is a three point specialist that can't hit threes. IMO, our offense does not help Ish succeed. He's not good enough to just take his, and he doesn't shoot well off the dribble. He is a stand still three point shooter. We rarely run plays to free him up for his shot, to get him good looks, which, for me, is one of the most disappointing aspects of our offense. You're right, he gets little offense run for him. But he does get open threes, probably four to six a game, and he hits maybe one. On a better team he would maybe be an effective niche player, but on a team that desperately needs a three and D type, he just can't deliver. I suppose everyone was hoping he'd improve in his senior year but he's pretty much the same player trying to fit into a larger role that doesn't suit him.
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Post by reformation on Feb 10, 2024 17:59:21 GMT -5
Agree Epps and Felder would be useful (at their current skill level) for a good team coming off the bench for some useful minutes. I can't imagine that the staff ever projected Fielder as a 3. He's a 4 or 5 depending on the matchup.
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