Future frontcourt discussion

[dariantownesvanzandt]

How about we make a new thread for the future frontcourt situation? Just to keep it all together...

[trillesthoya]

Sorber/Cook 50/50 mins split, who says no?

[hoyaboya]

Jan 16, 2024 12:54:22 GMT -5 trillesthoya said:

Sorber/Cook 50/50 mins split, who says no?

I'd think Cook would play more than Sorber, if they're both here next season.

[SFHoya99]

We had a pretty good discussion on this in another thread, though I'm not quite willing to reprise it all.

That said, the frontcourt next year will likely take a massive leap. We should be targeting one transfer.

To go from Cook, Fielder and Massoud to Cook, Sorber, Sophomore Fielder and hopefully at least at Cook's level but hopefully at least a half step better is a massive upgrade assuming we see Fielder improve his defense enough to hang out there.

The result:

• Sophomore Fielder will take Massoud's minutes (and considering Fielder might deserve his minutes now), that's an upgrade.
• Sorber will at minimum take Fielder's minutes and while I think Drew has been pretty good, especially offensively, it's hard to believe that Sorber won't at least be similar to Freshman Fielder with a very good chance at being better.
• Adding a transfer that is significantly better than Cook could transform either the defense or add an offensive threat down low, but even if we don't get that...
• ...a Cook-level transfer plus Sorber gives us both the depth to survive foul trouble, injury and fatigue but also...
• ...with Fielder in particular we might be able to play two bigs with would really help with the 3-2 zone or any kind of rim protection.

Obviously, that transfer could be a difference maker, but even if they are Cook 2.0 or more a PF with his general talent level, there's going to be significant improvement.

Fielder does likely need to work, though, as I think Sorber is a very good prospect, but freshman can rarely defend, and I think it will be difficult to be good next year if we are relying on Sorber to be a difference maker rather than letting him be an X factor when he comes in.

[hoyaboya]

Jan 16, 2024 13:11:22 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

We had a pretty good discussion on this in another thread, though I'm not quite willing to reprise it all.

That said, the frontcourt next year will likely take a massive leap. We should be targeting one transfer.

To go from Cook, Fielder and Massoud to Cook, Sorber, Sophomore Fielder and hopefully at least at Cook's level but hopefully at least a half step better is a massive upgrade assuming we see Fielder improve his defense enough to hang out there.

The result:

• Sophomore Fielder will take Massoud's minutes (and considering Fielder might deserve his minutes now), that's an upgrade.
• Sorber will at minimum take Fielder's minutes and while I think Drew has been pretty good, especially offensively, it's hard to believe that Sorber won't at least be similar to Freshman Fielder with a very good chance at being better.
• Adding a transfer that is significantly better than Cook could transform either the defense or add an offensive threat down low, but even if we don't get that...
• ...a Cook-level transfer plus Sorber gives us both the depth to survive foul trouble, injury and fatigue but also...
• ...with Fielder in particular we might be able to play two bigs with would really help with the 3-2 zone or any kind of rim protection.

Obviously, that transfer could be a difference maker, but even if they are Cook 2.0 or more a PF with his general talent level, there's going to be significant improvement.

Fielder does likely need to work, though, as I think Sorber is a very good prospect, but freshman can rarely defend, and I think it will be difficult to be good next year if we are relying on Sorber to be a difference maker rather than letting him be an X factor when he comes in.

Fielder can't defend 4-men, so asking him to replace Massoud's minutes there will likely lead to porous defense like we've seen this season. Not that Massoud is great, but Fielder would have to get much quicker and play lower to the ground defensively to guard college 4-men. That said, we could play zone and that would allow for us to play Fielder together with Cook/Sorber.

[prhoya]

Jan 16, 2024 13:11:22 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

We had a pretty good discussion on this in another thread, though I'm not quite willing to reprise it all.

That said, the frontcourt next year will likely take a massive leap. We should be targeting one transfer.

To go from Cook, Fielder and Massoud to Cook, Sorber, Sophomore Fielder and hopefully at least at Cook's level but hopefully at least a half step better is a massive upgrade assuming we see Fielder improve his defense enough to hang out there.

The result:

• Sophomore Fielder will take Massoud's minutes (and considering Fielder might deserve his minutes now), that's an upgrade.
• Sorber will at minimum take Fielder's minutes and while I think Drew has been pretty good, especially offensively, it's hard to believe that Sorber won't at least be similar to Freshman Fielder with a very good chance at being better.
• Adding a transfer that is significantly better than Cook could transform either the defense or add an offensive threat down low, but even if we don't get that...
• ...a Cook-level transfer plus Sorber gives us both the depth to survive foul trouble, injury and fatigue but also...
• ...with Fielder in particular we might be able to play two bigs with would really help with the 3-2 zone or any kind of rim protection.

Obviously, that transfer could be a difference maker, but even if they are Cook 2.0 or more a PF with his general talent level, there's going to be significant improvement.

Fielder does likely need to work, though, as I think Sorber is a very good prospect, but freshman can rarely defend, and I think it will be difficult to be good next year if we are relying on Sorber to be a difference maker rather than letting him be an X factor when he comes in.

Like!

Mutombo? (ducks)

[calhoya]

Keep reading about the value of bringing in Sorber next year. What is his game? Does he have an outside shot or is he more like Cook/Wahab? Is he a good/decent defender in terms of mobility and lift? What is the quality of his opposition in high school/AAU? Know very little about how his senior season is going other than he was highly recruited and is rated as a 4*. Any information is appreciated.

[hoyaboya]

Jan 16, 2024 13:22:03 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Keep reading about the value of bringing in Sorber next year. What is his game? Does he have an outside shot or is he more like Cook/Wahab? Is he a good/decent defender in terms of mobility and lift? What is the quality of his opposition in high school/AAU? Know very little about how his senior season is going other than he was highly recruited and is rated as a 4*. Any information is appreciated.

Sorber is Elton Brand reincarnated. He's a 6'8", maybe 6'9" bruiser who is highly effective in the paint and will be an excellent scorer and rebounder in college. Potentially an ideal recruit for this era of college basketball, as he does not have NBA measurables. He has gotten quicker/better lift but he is neither particularly quick nor does he possess great leaping ability. Will likely be excellent offensively and average defensively - not expected to be a great shot blocker in college due to height/athleticism limitations. He has played top-level AAU competition and plays for a strong high school basketball program in Philly, so he'll likely have a relatively easy transition to the rigors of Big East basketball. A great kid from a good family whom everybody loves off the court.

[prhoya]

Jan 16, 2024 13:22:03 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Keep reading about the value of bringing in Sorber next year. What is his game? Does he have an outside shot or is he more like Cook/Wahab? Is he a good/decent defender in terms of mobility and lift? What is the quality of his opposition in high school/AAU? Know very little about how his senior season is going other than he was highly recruited and is rated as a 4*. Any information is appreciated.

You need to find the latest Sorber article somewhere in HT. Great kid and mom!

He’s closer to a 5-star now, nominated to the McD game, seen several 6’10” listings, lost 30 pounds to get next-level mobility, hard worker, high IQ and has three-level game. Not sure how his defense will translate and Cooley should find an alternative just in case…

[prhoya]

Jan 16, 2024 13:11:17 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Jan 16, 2024 12:54:22 GMT -5 trillesthoya said:

Sorber/Cook 50/50 mins split, who says no?

I'd think Cook would play more than Sorber, if they're both here next season.

Cooley said that he’s open to some Cook at the 4.

[jwp91]

Jan 16, 2024 13:22:03 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Keep reading about the value of bringing in Sorber next year. What is his game? Does he have an outside shot or is he more like Cook/Wahab? Is he a good/decent defender in terms of mobility and lift? What is the quality of his opposition in high school/AAU? Know very little about how his senior season is going other than he was highly recruited and is rated as a 4*. Any information is appreciated.

He is what I am aware of based on seeing some posts and clips casually...no serious research.

He says he has lost weight from 255/260 to 240. He appears bigger to me on screen than Cook....it could be the high school sized opponents. Online lists him at 6'9".

He is both athletic and skilled.

Don't take this comment the wrong way. When I have seen him shoot, it seems like he has a lot of touch/finesse/skill in shooting as a C. It reminded me of watching Mourning shoot when he was a freshman. Both have a finesse that a lot of the centers of the recent past have not had.

I have seen highlights featuring different post moves down low. He moves really well.

I have seen nothing about shooting from distance.

He was just nominated to be a McDonalds All-American. I don't know if he will get, but he was nominated.

I don't expect him to next Patrick Ewing, but if he doesn't have a bigger impact than Fielder has had so far this year, then personally, I will be disappointed. I think he could be an upgrade over Cook (UConn game excepted)

[TC]

Elton Brand didn't have Sorber's passing, which is the element of Sorber's game that I'm most excited by, and Brand was an absolute load with absolutely freakish arm length that was basically the best rebounder in college basketball. Sorber is lean muscle, should be able to defend even to the perimeter - I expect he'll be a good rebounder but expecting Elton Brand-rebounding is not a great comp.

I think the better comp is Jeff Green in a center's body.

[professorhoya]

Jan 16, 2024 13:28:24 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Jan 16, 2024 13:22:03 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Keep reading about the value of bringing in Sorber next year. What is his game? Does he have an outside shot or is he more like Cook/Wahab? Is he a good/decent defender in terms of mobility and lift? What is the quality of his opposition in high school/AAU? Know very little about how his senior season is going other than he was highly recruited and is rated as a 4*. Any information is appreciated.

Sorber is Elton Brand reincarnated. He's a 6'8", maybe 6'9" bruiser who is highly effective in the paint and will be an excellent scorer and rebounder in college. Potentially an ideal recruit for this era of college basketball, as he does not have NBA measurables. He has gotten quicker/better lift but he is neither particularly quick nor does he possess great leaping ability. Will likely be excellent offensively and average defensively - not expected to be a great shot blocker in college due to height/athleticism limitations. He has played top-level AAU competition and plays for a strong high school basketball program in Philly, so he'll likely have a relatively easy transition to the rigors of Big East basketball. A great kid from a good family whom everybody loves off the court.

Elton Brand was the first overall pick for your Chicago Bulls. 2 time NBA all star.

[SFHoya99]

Jan 16, 2024 13:21:20 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Jan 16, 2024 13:11:22 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

We had a pretty good discussion on this in another thread, though I'm not quite willing to reprise it all.

That said, the frontcourt next year will likely take a massive leap. We should be targeting one transfer.

To go from Cook, Fielder and Massoud to Cook, Sorber, Sophomore Fielder and hopefully at least at Cook's level but hopefully at least a half step better is a massive upgrade assuming we see Fielder improve his defense enough to hang out there.

The result:

• Sophomore Fielder will take Massoud's minutes (and considering Fielder might deserve his minutes now), that's an upgrade.
• Sorber will at minimum take Fielder's minutes and while I think Drew has been pretty good, especially offensively, it's hard to believe that Sorber won't at least be similar to Freshman Fielder with a very good chance at being better.
• Adding a transfer that is significantly better than Cook could transform either the defense or add an offensive threat down low, but even if we don't get that...
• ...a Cook-level transfer plus Sorber gives us both the depth to survive foul trouble, injury and fatigue but also...
• ...with Fielder in particular we might be able to play two bigs with would really help with the 3-2 zone or any kind of rim protection.

Obviously, that transfer could be a difference maker, but even if they are Cook 2.0 or more a PF with his general talent level, there's going to be significant improvement.

Fielder does likely need to work, though, as I think Sorber is a very good prospect, but freshman can rarely defend, and I think it will be difficult to be good next year if we are relying on Sorber to be a difference maker rather than letting him be an X factor when he comes in.

Like!

Mutombo? (ducks)

I don't think you are entirely wrong on Mutombo. I think he could be useful in very certain situations. I just don't think he fits anything Cooley wants to do, and he's not good enough to adjust the team to fit for a year in which we aren't going anywhere anyway.

I just don't expect him to be in the rotation, unless we move to a 2-3 zone. Having Ryan responsible to head out to the corner or the perimeter is just not going to end well.

[RBHoya]

I'm a little removed from the discussion but it seems like it could be a slightly difficult needle to thread in today's transfer-happy environment. It would certainly be nice to add a high level transfer into the mix, somebody who can protect the rim a bit would be great. But if youre Drew Fielder, you played a supporting role this year as you acclimated to high major ball, and then you see Thomas Sorber AND a high quality transfer being brought in and realize you may be the 4th man in a 4 man frontcourt rotation as a sophomore... you might consider your options (and I'd guess he'd have plenty). We could of course add a lesser caliber transfer, somebody who's good enough for rotation minutes off the bench but not going to push for a starting job and not going to scare anyone away. In that scenario all 3 of Cook/Sorber/Fielder can play 25-30 minutes a game and they're all theoretically happy with their roles. But is that rotation good enough to really vault us up the Big East standings next year? Could be, but far from a sure thing.

It'll be interesting and hopefully Cooley and staff can manage it. Feels like any time you are projecting a returning player to be a non-starting rotation player in this era, you have to think long and hard about whether that's gonna be sufficient for where HE sees himself.

[dense]

Also to add Sorber has a 3 ball. He has said his favorite player is Jokic. He models his game after him. He wants to effect every aspect for the game. He has worked to have a perimeter shot and I've seen him make several. He looks like he is going to be a great FT shooter as well. But as someone said above his passing/handle is what sets him above the Brand comp.

[professorhoya]

Jan 16, 2024 16:00:34 GMT -5 RBHoya said:

I'm a little removed from the discussion but it seems like it could be a slightly difficult needle to thread in today's transfer-happy environment. It would certainly be nice to add a high level transfer into the mix, somebody who can protect the rim a bit would be great. But if youre Drew Fielder, you played a supporting role this year as you acclimated to high major ball, and then you see Thomas Sorber AND a high quality transfer being brought in and realize you may be the 4th man in a 4 man frontcourt rotation as a sophomore... you might consider your options (and I'd guess he'd have plenty). We could of course add a lesser caliber transfer, somebody who's good enough for rotation minutes off the bench but not going to push for a starting job and not going to scare anyone away. In that scenario all 3 of Cook/Sorber/Fielder can play 25-30 minutes a game and they're all theoretically happy with their roles. But is that rotation good enough to really vault us up the Big East standings next year? Could be, but far from a sure thing.

It'll be interesting and hopefully Cooley and staff can manage it. Feels like any time you are projecting a returning player to be a non-starting rotation player in this era, you have to think long and hard about whether that's gonna be sufficient for where HE sees himself.

This is why all the good coaches are leaving (Nick Saban being the latest). You cannot roster build or develop under the current lawless Wild West NIL rules.

[thedragon]

Jan 16, 2024 16:00:34 GMT -5 RBHoya said:

I'm a little removed from the discussion but it seems like it could be a slightly difficult needle to thread in today's transfer-happy environment. It would certainly be nice to add a high level transfer into the mix, somebody who can protect the rim a bit would be great. But if youre Drew Fielder, you played a supporting role this year as you acclimated to high major ball, and then you see Thomas Sorber AND a high quality transfer being brought in and realize you may be the 4th man in a 4 man frontcourt rotation as a sophomore... you might consider your options (and I'd guess he'd have plenty). We could of course add a lesser caliber transfer, somebody who's good enough for rotation minutes off the bench but not going to push for a starting job and not going to scare anyone away. In that scenario all 3 of Cook/Sorber/Fielder can play 25-30 minutes a game and they're all theoretically happy with their roles. But is that rotation good enough to really vault us up the Big East standings next year? Could be, but far from a sure thing.

It'll be interesting and hopefully Cooley and staff can manage it. Feels like any time you are projecting a returning player to be a non-starting rotation player in this era, you have to think long and hard about whether that's gonna be sufficient for where HE sees himself.

Nothing but conjecture on my end - but I do wonder if Cook continues to play well if he considers going to make money playing overseas. I believe he is a Senior on pace to graduate. And his minutes next year are far more likely to decrease then increase. It very well may make sense for both Gtown and Supreme for him to start his pro career. For the reason you noted RB, I think it is unlikely that the front court next year is Cook, Fielder, Sorber and a backup frontcourt transfer to eat a few minutes when needed. The likelihood of that being "enough" to make the jump we all hope and expect is very much in question and I think the staff likely realizes that as well.

To me the way you thread the needle is splitting 80 minutes at the 4/5 between big time transfer - 30 minutes. Fielder 25 minutes. Sorber 25 minutes. With another backup big transfer like Cook from Fairfield this year as a needed stopgap for foul trouble/injury etc.

I personally love the way Cook has played lately and I hope Fielder makes a big leap into sophomore year from an already solid floor - but folks need to realize that for the Hoyas to compete at the level we expect them to in this NIL environment that there are going to need to be wholesale changes at some positions.

[daveg023]

I think people are expecting way too much from Sorber. He’s having a great year and his stock is certainly on the rise, but let’s not act like he’s a 5* talent that will be a difference maker Day 1.

In the past decade in the BE, I only can think of a few freshman bigs that were key pieces right away… Spellman and Robinson Earl at Nova, Clingan at UConn, Delgado at Seton Hall. And these guys mostly came in with better pedigrees and on a better team. As someone said before, I think a freshman Govan like expectation seems realistic.

[reformation]

80% of Elto Brand would be a big win. I saw Elton in HS--he was much more explosive and had better mobility and varied scoring ability than what I've seen (which admittedly is not enough for a real comp) from Sorber. Also, Elton had other elite teams run schemes to stop him--not sure Sorber is really near that level yet.

Don't get me wrong, Sorber looks and sounds good, but a small reality check is in order. EB was like a top 10 maybe top5 recruit out of HS. Sorber is not that comparable to top 5/10 hs guys.