thedragon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,333
|
Post by thedragon on Jan 15, 2024 13:18:32 GMT -5
We need a thumbs down button too in here. Responding with negative snark to near every pseudo positive post is tiresome. No one is saying the season hasent been a pig. But constantly picking at anyone who even attempts to put lipstick on that pig just makes for an even rougher ride that we all already are enduring. My unsolicited 2 cents. It was a serious question. How about you? When do you expect the final product? Predict away and explain. I wont even delve into the disingenuousness (is that a word?) of your "serious question". I have no idea what final product even means. But my expectations have not changed since we fired PE and hired EC. Bubble team year 2. Tournament and upper crust BE team year 3. Everyone knew year 1 would be a tire fire unless EC was Moses. In a perfect world I'd like to see a minimum of 5-15 in BE this year. That seems like an uphill battle at this point which would be disappointing, but I believe whether we're 2-18 or 5-15, it really doesn't change all that much except the b*tching we will do on HT.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Jan 15, 2024 13:30:24 GMT -5
We are halfway through the season, and we have players who can shoot. With Epps, Styles, and Massoud, how can we not get one of them an open perimeter jumpshot? I'd have to go back and rewatch but I feel like the vast majority of our three point shots were wide open. Massoud had a shot that was so open he could have counted to three and there still would not have been a defender on him - and he missed it. The other criticism I see here that I really don't agree with is that Rowan is too slow or that there was some defensive lapse and that's why Cooley took him out. I'm pretty sure Rowan got taken out because he jacked up the first three shots of the game and dribbled all over the place and then turned the ball over without looking for a teammate. Rowan's value should be in driving and creating shots for Epps/Massoud/Styles or dishing to Cook, who was open on a few of his shot attempts. The defensive possessions Rowan was in for he seemed to do just fine - he got stuck on the wrong side of a 3 on 1 and put a hand up for Karavan's shot - but it was a 3 on 1. Epps has started to drive and then kick the ball out to open teammates, but Rowan really hasn't done that the last couple of games. I think he would have shut down Cam Spencer but unfortunately we will never know cause he was benched early after taking 12 dribbles, fell down and commuted a shot clock violation. He really didn’t come back in the game till game was over.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
|
Post by TC on Jan 15, 2024 13:43:37 GMT -5
I think he would have shut down Cam Spencer but unfortunately we will never know cause he was benched early after taking 12 dribbles, fell down and commuted a shot clock violation. He really didn’t come back in the game till game was over. It was kind of forgettable, but he was back in the game in the first half after that - he fed Fielder in the post (Fielder missed), he tried to shovel a ball to Fielder but his shovel was way too low, and then he horribly missed a layup on a drive. I don't think Heath offers a lot that Rowan doesn't, but if Rowan isn't going to look for teammates, Heath is a better scorer.
|
|
SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,339
|
Post by SDHoya on Jan 15, 2024 13:51:59 GMT -5
Cooley came up with a game plan which kept a seriously undermanned/overmatched team within striking distance of the defending national champion (and likely to momentarily be #1 ranked) in their barn for about 35 minutes. That is a positive. The lack of movement on offense is a concern, but my guess is that Cooley is prioritizing defense and effort in practices. This is a deep hole Cooley is attempting to build out of, and he has probably realized that trade offs need to be made for now. Unfortunately, that means that the offense is static and too often becomes Epps or someone else going one on four with the shot clock running out. I don't think this is indicative of what the final product will look like. When do you think we will get to see the final product? I expect we’ll see glimpses as the season goes on. Doubt will be consistent this year.
|
|
|
Post by reformation on Jan 15, 2024 14:32:33 GMT -5
I'd take a breakout individual performance and a competitive game against UCONN away as a win. Hopefully building a better base so that when we get some additional talent, we can start winning consistently.
The whole missing layup game is a bit off point. Better players can finish at the rim and also dish off or hit pull up jumpers. Having a more varied offensive repertoire is part of what distinguishes elite from decent players. We have trouble hitting open shots. If we can't consistently knock down open shots, we are probably not going to be very good offensively no matter what scheme we use.
We need some better shooters, a couple of excellent on ball defenders, and a good point guard.
|
|
bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,509
|
Post by bostonfan on Jan 15, 2024 15:59:07 GMT -5
I'd take a breakout individual performance and a competitive game against UCONN away as a win. Hopefully building a better base so that when we get some additional talent, we can start winning consistently. The whole missing layup game is a bit off point. Better players can finish at the rim and also dish off or hit pull up jumpers. Having a more varied offensive repertoire is part of what distinguishes elite from decent players. We have trouble hitting open shots. If we can't consistently knock down open shots, we are probably not going to be very good offensively no matter what scheme we use. We need some better shooters, a couple of excellent on ball defenders, and a good point guard. Very True I think Epps, Rowan and Fielder will all improve making shots as they get stronger and more experienced. You can also add Styles to some degree (he is already pretty strong and a little older but never really played much until this year). Beyond that, the team does need to add some more skilled and accomplished players in order to compete with teams like UCONN
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 15, 2024 16:46:11 GMT -5
We need a thumbs down button too in here. Responding with negative snark to near every pseudo positive post is tiresome. No one is saying the season hasent been a pig. But constantly picking at anyone who even attempts to put lipstick on that pig just makes for an even rougher ride that we all already are enduring. My unsolicited 2 cents. It was a serious question. How about you? When do you expect the final product? Predict away and explain. Not this year, but that was always the case. Pitino's "final product" at St. John's isn't going to be in March, either. As far as final product, that can mean a lot of things. But, I think for any coach taking over a new program, you're not going to know anything close to the "final" product for at least 3-4 seasons, and I think that's true portal or not. It takes time for any new coach to put their system in place, recruit exactly who they want, etc. And despite the portal being a panacea for a lot of people, it simply isn't as easy as putting together a brand new roster and automatically being a final product. I had always said I wanted this team to be 100ish on KenPom. After yesterday, we went from 187 to 177. If we play better, 100 is still feasible given how good the Big East is, but I think it's actually pretty unlikely. So, in that sense, we are going to fall short of where I wanted us to be. Next year, I really would like to see us be at least in the 60ish/NCAA contender (even if we do not make it). Third year, I want an NCAA bid. But, when do I think Cooley will be best equipped to put together a "final product"? Probably somewhere in the 3-5 seasons range.
|
|
beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
|
Post by beenaround on Jan 15, 2024 21:50:59 GMT -5
If we’re not in the NCAa tournament in yr 3, it’s very fair to be unhappy with Cooley.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
|
Post by TC on Jan 16, 2024 6:58:27 GMT -5
If we’re not in the NCAa tournament in yr 3, it’s very fair to be unhappy with Cooley. We're not talking about making it to the NCAA tournament here, we're talking about "final product". When you throw around the term "final product", that is different than "make it to the NCAA tournament as a .500 Big East / 12-seed at large".
|
|
beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
|
Post by beenaround on Jan 16, 2024 7:22:31 GMT -5
Understood. I’m not sure what “ final product” means. Just saying I’d feel we are in a solid place if we make the tournament in yr 3. Right now, I truly have no idea if we’re moving in the right direction……the bits and pieces of good basketball that seem to excite others , are not enough to convince me of anything.
Be in the NIT next yr, and NCAA the yr after, and then I’m fully on Cooley bandwagon. Just my uneducated opinion.
|
|
drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,386
|
Post by drquigley on Jan 16, 2024 10:45:49 GMT -5
It's still early both in this season and Cooley's tenure. I think we should hold our thoughts on this subject until the end of February and the BET. FWIW I see some major improvement in the caliber of play over the last 3 games (as compared to last few years and the early part of this season) and will wait to see how we look against some of the middle of the pack BE teams (Providence/Xavier/Butler) later this month.
|
|