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Post by bearsandbulls on Dec 24, 2023 10:06:13 GMT -5
Are fans still trying to compare Rowan to Steve Nash? He’s afraid to dribble against pressure. He’s always going to need other ballhandlers alongside him on the court. Exactly who on this team is going to do better than Rowan dribbling against pressure? Does he needs to improve? Yes, but I don't see anyone in a better position to face the challenge. Spot on. Rowan has his glitches, but don't let Heath or Epps do his job. He is a freshman adjusting to the speed of the Big East game. Rewards will come later. Patience.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 24, 2023 10:14:48 GMT -5
What do we do well? We can’t defend, pass or rebound. We can shoot, but can’t create open looks. How are we getting conference wins? We looked okay against really bad teams. I thought a Cooley team would be tougher, grittier, have a chance to win ugly games. Not seeing any signs of that really other than a few runs against AU, TCU, and ND. I still believe in the long term plan, but honestly through 12.5 games, I’m not sure we are much better than we were last year. And it’s not like these aren’t his players. Outside of Heath and Bristol the other 5 main guys he picked. Check the following quote and article from the Georgetown Voice: There’s a saying in the college basketball world that teams play like the coaches that lead them. This will be true of Georgetown under Cooley’s staff as well. “Discipline is a staple. Toughness, energy, connection, and enthusiasm. Those things will also be staples of our organization,” he said.georgetownvoice.com/2023/11/03/cooley-preaches-patience-as-he-looks-to-resurrect-the-hoyas/ Cooley may not have the talent he needs, but discipline, toughness, energy, connection, and enthusiasm have nothing to do with talent. Now, let’s be honest, is that what we’re seeing from this team?
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Omega
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Post by Omega on Dec 24, 2023 10:31:41 GMT -5
Exactly who on this team is going to do better than Rowan dribbling against pressure? Does he needs to improve? Yes, but I don't see anyone in a better position to face the challenge. Spot on. Rowan has his glitches, but don't let Heath or Epps do his job. He is a freshman adjusting to the speed of the Big East game. Rewards will come later. Patience. He will be recruited over... Ewing got heat for not recruiting him, I'm not sure he would have gotten run on last year's team. Now we know why he redshirted...
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 24, 2023 11:04:23 GMT -5
I've offered this opinion before - most of us are still suffering from Ewing-induced PTSD and it'll take years to overcome.
Year one of reconstruction from the rubble left behind. Gotta give it a chance.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Dec 24, 2023 11:04:42 GMT -5
You're falling down on the job of your shtick of relentlessly complaining about people being negative if I have to step in and do it. We have reason for hope now and we are on the way up. I don't understand the complaints of "it's been 9 months and we're not at the top of the Big East yet, what gives". It's not going to happen this season, maybe just enjoy the ride we're on. I just enjoy the hypocrisy of many on this board - for instance, we had to endure your constant negativity for 5 years and yet you’re the first to the wall to defend against any hint of negativity with Cooley. Newsflash: Cooley built this team. The modern college game is built so savvy coaches and talent identifiers can rebuild on the fly and be competitive right away. Judging results so far, he didn’t meet that task. You know full well that absolutely no one is complaining “it’s been 9 months and we’re not at the top of the Bug East.” (Incidentally, *that* is a straw man argument). But expectations of competence should not be too high in season one. We have only approached competence on a few occasions and only in short bursts. Currently, we are as bad a team as we have been in any of the past few seasons. A bit more organized, overall? Sure. But to date, the on-court results are going very poorly. Cooley seems like a good dude, and while I think hiring him away from Providence for so much money was a bit bizarre, he has solid credentials. He can turn this thing around eventually, and I hope he will. But his first season so far has been very unimpressive. Hard to argue with this. As bad as the play has been so far, and as much as it has resembled some of the worst of last year, the big difference is that Cooley does have a track record at multiple stops and has proven he can coach a winning team. Even though he was not my choice for coach, I do have hope and expectation that he will turn it around. I do not agree that this is a 3 year process though. We have complete free agency in college basketball and it is possible, particularly with a proven coach with charisma, to turn this program around much sooner.
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Omega
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by Omega on Dec 24, 2023 12:39:09 GMT -5
Cooley supporter here. Do any of you watch teams other than GU? Do you see how hard other big east teams play. This team plays soft, no grit, no determination. Epps needs to sit!
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Dec 24, 2023 12:56:56 GMT -5
Cooley supporter here. Do any of you watch teams other than GU? Do you see how hard other big east teams play. This team plays soft, no grit, no determination. Epps needs to sit! Just Epps? Heath would be the first one to sit in my view, whether it is injury related or not. At least Epps can provide much needed offense when he is on. Heath has given us virtually nothing on either side of the ball.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 24, 2023 13:30:51 GMT -5
Spot on. Rowan has his glitches, but don't let Heath or Epps do his job. He is a freshman adjusting to the speed of the Big East game. Rewards will come later. Patience. He will be recruited over... Ewing got heat for not recruiting him, I'm not sure he would have gotten run on last year's team. Now we know why he redshirted... What is your standard for success for Rowan? All Conference? Rowan has the best statistics of any freshman in the conference. Of all the problems this team has, I put Rowan in the ‘minor’ category?
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 24, 2023 14:47:55 GMT -5
He will be recruited over... Ewing got heat for not recruiting him, I'm not sure he would have gotten run on last year's team. Now we know why he redshirted... What is your standard for success for Rowan? All Confernce? Rowan has the best statistics of any freshman in the conference. Of all the problems this team has, I put Rowan in the ‘minor’ category? "The problem with Rowan" is that we don't have two of him.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 24, 2023 15:06:00 GMT -5
He will be recruited over... Ewing got heat for not recruiting him, I'm not sure he would have gotten run on last year's team. Now we know why he redshirted... What is your standard for success for Rowan? All Confernce? Rowan has the best statistics of any freshman in the conference. Of all the problems this team has, I put Rowan in the ‘minor’ category? I like Rowan, but: (1) His handle isn't great and he can't outdribble pressure (2) Relatedly, he's committing far too many turnovers right now (3) He's shooting 27% from 3 as a player who... (4) ...doesn't have the quickness to beat guys off the dribble on demand. He does have a fantastic hesitation move, good finishing inside, quick hands and a strong court sense. But even without getting too much into defensive upside, he's got to fix those first three items on there to be a plus Big East PG.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 24, 2023 17:18:35 GMT -5
I agree. You point out some needed areas for improvement. Rowan is not one of the top 6 PGs in the conference. I don’t believe Tyler Kolek during his freshman year at George Mason also would have been one of the top 6 PGs in the Big East conference.
Give him time. Let him develop. Rowan is the first guard in a long time for the Hoyas with the vision and desire to get others involved.
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Omega
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by Omega on Dec 24, 2023 18:41:39 GMT -5
I agree. You point out some needed areas for improvement. Rowan is not one of the top 6 PGs in the conference. I don’t believe Tyler Kolek during his freshman year at George Mason also would have been one of the top 6 PGs in the Big East conference. Give him time. Let him develop. Rowan is the first guard in a long time for the Hoyas with the vision and desire to get others involved. What good is vision for a PG if your handle is weak?
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 24, 2023 20:13:59 GMT -5
I agree. You point out some needed areas for improvement. Rowan is not one of the top 6 PGs in the conference. I don’t believe Tyler Kolek during his freshman year at George Mason also would have been one of the top 6 PGs in the Big East conference. Give him time. Let him develop. Rowan is the first guard in a long time for the Hoyas with the vision and desire to get others involved. What good is vision for a PG if your handle is weak? Handle is a skill that can be improved. I am not sure vision is something that can be improved.
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Post by bearsandbulls on Dec 25, 2023 10:42:06 GMT -5
He will be recruited over... Ewing got heat for not recruiting him, I'm not sure he would have gotten run on last year's team. Now we know why he redshirted... What is your standard for success for Rowan? All Conference? Rowan has the best statistics of any freshman in the conference. Of all the problems this team has, I put Rowan in the ‘minor’ category? Pretty spot on. We have to remember, as he is thrown in there as a freshmen, his performance is being compared to much more senior players. Yes mistakes, but mistakes can linger or be a part of growth. With Rowan I sense the latter. The train wreck is Heath. He has been around too long to be making the mistakes he is, or he is not being used as must be. Every time Heath touches the ball I cringe until he gives it up. Unfortunately, too often it is due to a TO. Now, if Heath were instructed to move, move, move and then catch and shoot, he may be an asset. Then there is Epps. Maybe best described as he feels he needs to do too much on this team. He has assumed the "go to" role, and he is not our go to player. Styles is that man, but he does not seem to want the role. Cook does so much well and thank goodness we have him, for without, the paint would be given up. But his hands are not good at all---dropsie. Fielder is a work in progress. Patience Hoyas.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Dec 26, 2023 12:45:54 GMT -5
What is your standard for success for Rowan? All Conference? Rowan has the best statistics of any freshman in the conference. Of all the problems this team has, I put Rowan in the ‘minor’ category? Pretty spot on. We have to remember, as he is thrown in there as a freshmen, his performance is being compared to much more senior players. Yes mistakes, but mistakes can linger or be a part of growth. With Rowan I sense the latter. The train wreck is Heath. He has been around too long to be making the mistakes he is, or he is not being used as must be. Every time Heath touches the ball I cringe until he gives it up. Unfortunately, too often it is due to a TO. Now, if Heath were instructed to move, move, move and then catch and shoot, he may be an asset. Then there is Epps. Maybe best described as he feels he needs to do too much on this team. He has assumed the "go to" role, and he is not our go to player. Styles is that man, but he does not seem to want the role. Cook does so much well and thank goodness we have him, for without, the paint would be given up. But his hands are not good at all---dropsie. Fielder is a work in progress. Patience Hoyas. This is dead on. Epps is a jack. He’s a better version of Primo but in no way a guy you want facilitating for a team. Brum is a child. He has talent and a decent ceiling, but he shouldn’t really be playing anything other than spot minutes in a perfect world. Heath is exactly as was said above an utter train wreck. He should be a stabilizing veteran leader. Instead he’s a mistake-a-minute debacle. And turf toe doesn’t cut it as an excuse for how bad he’s been; maybe a double amputation would explain it.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 26, 2023 13:29:18 GMT -5
What is your standard for success for Rowan? All Conference? Rowan has the best statistics of any freshman in the conference. Of all the problems this team has, I put Rowan in the ‘minor’ category? Pretty spot on. We have to remember, as he is thrown in there as a freshmen, his performance is being compared to much more senior players. Yes mistakes, but mistakes can linger or be a part of growth. With Rowan I sense the latter. The train wreck is Heath. He has been around too long to be making the mistakes he is, or he is not being used as must be. Every time Heath touches the ball I cringe until he gives it up. Unfortunately, too often it is due to a TO. Now, if Heath were instructed to move, move, move and then catch and shoot, he may be an asset. Then there is Epps. Maybe best described as he feels he needs to do too much on this team. He has assumed the "go to" role, and he is not our go to player. Styles is that man, but he does not seem to want the role. Cook does so much well and thank goodness we have him, for without, the paint would be given up. But his hands are not good at all---dropsie. Fielder is a work in progress. Patience Hoyas. Brumbaugh is a RS frosh who I would assume ran scout against some high-level players like Marcus Carr, Jabari Rice, or Tyrese Hunter @ Texas last season. Does he lack game experience? Of course but folks have to stop making it seem as if he's just out of HS. it's not a sign of impatience to hope he'd be much further along in his development. No, I didn't expect him to be all-conference but I did have hopes that his spot would be in good hands for a while whicj is exactly how Fielder has made me feel about the PF spot. Not trying to defend Heath but he has 17 TO's in 13 games(363 minutes), you're not seeing his poor play end in turnovers a lot. He's shot it terribly & defended poorly though.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Dec 26, 2023 14:55:49 GMT -5
I was gaga over Brum after seeing him in Kenner and I predicted as he goes so do the Hoyas. Sadly I was wrong on my evaluation and more sadly it looks like my prediction was right. Had he turned into the player I thought I saw at Kenner we would be much farther along this year. But even though he has had some experience against top players it's not the same as the role he's been put into at GU this year. So lets cut him some slack and see if there is any improvement (and some hope for him in 2025-2026) come February.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 26, 2023 15:50:00 GMT -5
Kenner is a poor measure of the impact a player will have in the regular season. No defense and very little teamwork. I have no doubt Rowan, Epps, Styles and Fielder will improve, but given the imperfect nature of the current roster construction, it is doubtful to me that this improvement will be as impactful this year as it can in the future if the team acquires a real post and a more advanced PG.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Dec 26, 2023 19:04:39 GMT -5
Let's compare some Big East freshman point guard numbers :
Player A : eFG% : .383, AST% 21.5, STL% 2.1, TOV% 23.9
Player B : eFG% : .437, AST% 24.2, STL% 3.5, TOV% 24.0
Player C : eFG% : .435, AST% 27.7, STL% 3.8, TOV% 22.1
B is Rowan. A is 5* Simeon Wilcher. C is Trey Green.
Rowan has been the most valuable of the three on an absolute basis and on a relative basis. The only freshman guards that have been better have been Castle and Dual.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 26, 2023 20:30:22 GMT -5
I watched Heath play occasionally when he was at Arizona State, and he was clearly better then than he is now. For that matter, he also wasn't this bad last year. That makes me think that turf toe has impacted his entire game. Hopefully I'm right and he will eventually be better this year, as where else are his minutes going to go?
Also, Rowan may well get recruited over (a veteran transfer would be nice), but he's going to improve. What were you all expecting, AI? The fact is that he is the best player on the roster at what he does. Unfortunately, it currently leaves a lot to be desired, but it's growing pains.
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