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Post by reformation on Apr 1, 2024 10:50:42 GMT -5
Agree on both points above--no way the program is not fully reevaluated by an outsider once Jack D retires.
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metaphor
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Post by metaphor on Apr 1, 2024 11:12:22 GMT -5
My understanding from several well placed sources was that the sisters of Visitation wanted to sell the unused land to provide funds for their retirement, and that Georgetown's CFO/Treasurer at the time (I cannot remember his name), played hard ball. I do not know if the male dormitory issue was real or not (and at the time, the buildings were coed, but the floors were male or female), but find it somewhat doubtful given that the land for sale (which became the Cloisters townhouses) primarily overlooks Visitation's sports field. Yes, there was lots of campus property that was not fully developed--I smiled when I saw DFW's comment about the New South parking lot. I broke the story in the Voice in 1982 about the University's plans to turn the parking lot into the Quad and move the parking underground. Of course it wasn't really a secret and I only had one source. But given the limitations on space in Georgetown, you never turn down the opportunity to purchase land adjacent to the campus. Never. Was the CFO George Houston Jr.? After graduating first in his class at the School of Business Administration at Georgetown University in 1961, he taught part-time at Georgetown as an adjunct lecturer in accounting. He accepted a full-time faculty position in 1966 and was a School of Business faculty member and administrator until 1994. He served as Georgetown's chief financial officer from 1970 to 1994 and managing director of Georgetown's Endowment Fund from 1990 to 1994. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_R._Houston_Jr.#guhoyas.com/news/2008/1/23/Good_Memories_By_GeorgeYes! George Houston. Thanks.
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metaphor
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Post by metaphor on Apr 1, 2024 11:16:36 GMT -5
The plan is to play where the Wizards and Caps play. Just because y'all don't like the plan because you would rather fantasize about building a Cameron Indoor at McDonough and pretend the neighbors wouldn't do everything in their power - up to and including suicide bombing - to stop it doesn't mean it's not a plan.* *The hyperbole is intentionally absurd, but no more so than pretending Georgetown could get permission to build an on-campus arena that would draw thousands of cars into the neighborhood. For a well read and well written poster, your argument here isn't as strong, and illustrates a challenge --and an opportunity-- to this discussion. First, a show of hands who expect to build a 9,300 seat gymnasium/arena on campus? Not many. But it's hyperbole to say that the only choices are 9,300 seats and community warfare or do nothing. From December comments: "McDonough Gymnasium was built in 1951 to hold 3,600 participants at a school of comparable size, and and later as many as 4,000 if using seating along its second level. For any number of reasons, the gymnasium has been whittled down to just over 2,000 with no significant upgrade to the student experience. It is no longer suitable for many intercollegiate events, for academic events, for concerts, or even for recreational purposes. Even men's basketball practice, which effectively closed off the gym to students after the debut of Yates Field House, is no longer held there. At some point, and sooner rather than later, a serious study needs to be initiated on the state of McDonough Gymnasium and its utility for the next 50 years... Can the building serve the purpose it was built for, and how would it change going forward? "A reflexive answer that "any" McDonough renovation triggers the wrath of the Campus Plan is neither fair nor accurate--a review that reflects the student body of 2030 and not 1950 is not a siren call for thousands of fans to descend upon campus for home games. A university of 6,875 full time students has no single gathering place that can account for them... let's do a real study and not just rely on supposition." Before there is an argument (and as noted above, a need for a legitimate study comes before all else), there needs to be a review whether some iteration of a 3,500 to 4,500 seat McDonough, properly designed and scheduled, could serve as a legitimate option for selected nonconference games, at least before Monumental doubles the rent to play before thousands of empty seats in mid-November. "Well, we couldn't fit all our season ticket holders..." OK, that's fine. Judging by the trend, season tickets are going the way of paper tickets. Sell these as premium seats--some will pay, others will not. Either way, students will fill the seats and get an experience nearly every other Division I student body enjoys. "Well, there's not enough parking..." It's been pointed out in previous pages here that the neighborhood would object to any effort that would exacerbate rush hour traffic; yet, not a peep was heard when 4,300 people and at least a thousand more descended on campus last October for a football game, or the crowds that come to Reunions, or those at Commencement. What do all of these events have in common? None take place in "rush hour", and as audiences are younger and less likely to be driving into DC, car usage is significantly reduced when events are held on weekends. "Well, we need an NBA arena to attract recruits..." Not lately. Empty arenas tell a 17 year old to steer clear of schools that do not support its teams. This generation has no memory of Georgetown as being good and the idea of it as "Black America's Team" is far more distant. The downtown home is still the place for the Big East, Syracuse, Maryland, etc. Across a campus that hasn't seen meaningful on-campus indoor sports in two generations, perhaps four or five games a year will rekindle the interest visibly lacking in today's students and tomorrow's alumni that going to a basketball game can be fun and can be part of community building. Who knows, maybe they'll even start supporting women's basketball, too. And what would 4,000 seats look like at Georgetown? Maybe this. (additional views at 3:07) As someone who attended the famous GU-Missouri game in 1982, no doubt you could restore Mcdonough to 4500 seats. Maybe even 5 with a movement of the court and reconfiguring the seats. We could easily play the soft schedule there and some big east games (Providence, hehehehe). www.google.com/search?q=GU+missouri+game+1982&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS898US898&oq=GU+missouri+game+1982&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigATIHCAQQIRigATIHCAUQIRigAdIBCTcxMTlqMGoxNagCCLACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&ip=1&vld=cid:89b408bf,vid:6ayz9CFjssM,st:0
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metaphor
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Post by metaphor on Apr 1, 2024 13:59:37 GMT -5
And yes, a full house of 5000 is going to be a lot more appealing to recruits than playing all your games with 15000 empty seats at Cap One.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Apr 1, 2024 15:38:40 GMT -5
And yes, a full house of 5000 is going to be a lot more appealing to recruits than playing all your games with 15000 empty seats at Cap One. Agree 100%. I wrote a while back that we should play all low D1 games and a few BE - Creighton, Butler, Xavier, DePaul, Providence? - games at a renovated (4,500-5,000 seat) McDonough. There are at least 4 BE games that will draw over 10,000 at Cap One - Nova, UConn, St. John's, Hall - and probably a number of OOC games - Syracuse, Maryland, Notre Dame e.g. - that will do the same. Probably have to rework contract with Cap One but don't see how turning the lights on for 4,500 fans benefits Leonsis or GU. Plus a renovated McDonough allows for a number of non sports on campus events.
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Post by reformation on Apr 1, 2024 20:29:25 GMT -5
Maybe 4 games we can draw 10K or over. STJ + Nova if they are very good. Figure 1 OOC if we and they are good. For the OOC games it's almost like an away game with more fans for the other team frequently.
Crazy situation-it must be the most uneconomical situation in college BB.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 2, 2024 8:51:45 GMT -5
Tax abatement plus: Monumental will determine within 30 days of the agreement whether it is "economically and operationally viable" to build a new Wizards practice facility at the neighboring Gallery Place center. But if that doesn't materialize, D.C. will identify another city-owned location, "including the site commonly known as the RFK Stadium," according to the document. www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2024/04/01/capital-one-arena-wizards-capitals-deal
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Apr 3, 2024 0:59:34 GMT -5
Maybe I missed it...but is there something wrong with the multimillion dollar practice facility the Wizards just built not too long ago in SE?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 3, 2024 1:40:20 GMT -5
Maybe I missed it...but is there something wrong with the multimillion dollar practice facility the Wizards just built not too long ago in SE? Nothing, other than it is located in Anacostia. Uncle Ted wants what he wants. And he wants a practice facility closer to Cap One, apparently. eventsdc.com/venue/entertainment-and-sports-arena
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 3, 2024 7:27:49 GMT -5
Maybe I missed it...but is there something wrong with the multimillion dollar practice facility the Wizards just built not too long ago in SE? Nothing, other than it is located in Anacostia. Uncle Ted wants what he wants. And he wants a practice facility closer to Cap One, apparently. eventsdc.com/venue/entertainment-and-sports-arenaTed probably bought into Bowser's vision/sales job of the ESA being the centerpiece of a transformation of "St. Elizabeth's East" (https://stelizabethseast.com/) into the next signature DC location...and the first one East of the River. There was a sense that, yes, there would always be a significant segment who would treat it as a no go zone, but a Wizards/Mystics crowd would be more open to it. Maybe you could even recapture some of the Black middle class that decamped for Upper Marlboro, Bowie, and Waldorf. Instead, the Homeland Security HQ consolidation at St. E's has been a fiasco, the envisioned retail to cater to those employees hasn't materialized, and Covid further derailed things. So now Ted is looking to obtain some much more lucrative arrangement closer to where people in the DMV are used to heading for entertainment.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 3, 2024 19:12:49 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 3, 2024 19:41:44 GMT -5
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Apr 3, 2024 21:27:53 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 13, 2024 10:03:20 GMT -5
Well, sure seems like Georgetown is in the discussion.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 2, 2024 19:02:17 GMT -5
Speaking of DC stadia…
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metaphor
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Post by metaphor on May 2, 2024 21:23:26 GMT -5
Ugh. Football stadiums are the worst public investments of all stadium/arena types. 8 games a year, 2 more if you count preseason and maybe 1 playoff game (oh I forgot we were talking about the Washington Football Club). Maybe you can grab one Super Bowl over the life of the stadium. And very few rock/pop bands can fill 80,000 to 100,000 seat stadiums anymore. Build some housing. At least we are not trading a football stadium for Cap One.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 2, 2024 21:39:05 GMT -5
Football stadiums are the worst public investments of all stadium/arena types. 8 games a year, 2 more if you count preseason and maybe 1 playoff game (oh I forgot we were talking about the Washington Football Club). Maybe you can grab one Super Bowl over the life of the stadium. And very few rock/pop bands can fill 80,000 to 100,000 seat stadiums anymore. Build some housing. Modern football stadia are less about the NFL games versus year round revenues. AT&T Stadium (Jerry World) hosts an average of four events per day-- corporate events, shows, high school graduations, college sports, music, whatever they can sell. It's as much a convention center as a football facility. Maybe the Redskins/Commanders won't be in the playoffs tomorrow but that's not why Josh Harris will pay as much as he will for a new stadium.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on May 3, 2024 15:22:47 GMT -5
Bowser keeps talking about "mixed use development" including housing. Before dissing the idea of building a Commanders stadium there I'd like to see the plan and the community reaction.
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on May 3, 2024 18:12:17 GMT -5
Bowser keeps talking about "mixed use development" including housing. Before dissing the idea of building a Commanders stadium there I'd like to see the plan and the community reaction. The mixed use development is alive and well. Especially in Anacostia (link provided), and also in NE, DC (Eckington) www.bridgedistrictdc.com/
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metaphor
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Post by metaphor on May 3, 2024 22:05:23 GMT -5
Football stadiums are the worst public investments of all stadium/arena types. 8 games a year, 2 more if you count preseason and maybe 1 playoff game (oh I forgot we were talking about the Washington Football Club). Maybe you can grab one Super Bowl over the life of the stadium. And very few rock/pop bands can fill 80,000 to 100,000 seat stadiums anymore. Build some housing. Modern football stadia are less about the NFL games versus year round revenues. AT&T Stadium (Jerry World) hosts an average of four events per day-- corporate events, shows, high school graduations, college sports, music, whatever they can sell. It's as much a convention center as a football facility. Maybe the Redskins/Commanders won't be in the playoffs tomorrow but that's not why Josh Harris will pay as much as he will for a new stadium. Fair enough point DFW (although I would like to see the footnote that states Jerry World hosts 4 events a day), but most football stadiums don't hold anywhere near that many events. For example, Metlife in Jersey holds about 40 per year (including 20 home dates for both the Giants and the Jets). www.metlifestadium.com/news/2014/10/24/metlife-stadium-security-a-trendsetter#:~:text=The%20stadium%20has%20about%2040,games%2C%20concerts%20and%20motor%20racing. Stadiums with Roofs obviously do better, for example, the home of the Seahawks, Lumen Field hosts 185 events per year. But outside of the 10 Seahawks games not much sells the stadium out, and the surrounding businesses/vendors don't really make much money when the stadium holds a high school graduation. www.seahawks.com/team/facilities/lumen-field/#:~:text=Lumen%20Field%20Event%20Center.,than%20two%20million%20attendees%20annually. Stadiums and arenas in general are bad taxpayer investments according to the vast majority of economists, and football stadiums are the worst. Giving the Commanders any kind of public subsidy, including federal land, would be a poor use of taxpayer dollars IMHO.
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