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Post by MrDouglass on Sept 3, 2023 19:20:18 GMT -5
By any chance do any of you know if we have asked a Veterinarian to confirm that Jack’s duties are not too strenuous for his breed?
Here is why I ask. Purebred dogs struggle with inherited congenital diseases and crippling physical traits, like Jack’s stubby legs, large torso, and breathing problems. English Bulldogs in particular are unfit to be paraded around campus on a strenuous schedule. According to ufaw.org, “The short-nosed shape of the Bulldog skull causes breathing difficulties and ‘knock-on’ effects which cause chronic discomfort and prevent it exercising normally.”
According to Jack’s website, he isn’t just used for basketball games. He is made available for campus events as often as requested. How many times per day is Jack used? I’m not suggesting our latest Jack was mistreated. He was treated with loving care. I’m simply pointing out the inherent limitations of using an English Bulldog as a mascot on a strenuous schedule.
Instead of using an English Bulldog as a live mascot, I think we should consider approaching mascots in a way that better reflects Georgetown’s values. This may sound radical, but I think we should make an arrangement with a local dog shelter to showcase new shelter dogs on a weekly basis during the basketball season. We can keep using an English Bulldog in mascot imagery and costume, but the live mascot should be changed. I’m sure this idea would encounter pushback. Jack has been a bulldog for decades. But tradition should yield to reason.
I am not a Veterinarian, but I honestly think it’s cruel to use an English Bulldog as a live mascot.
And that is why I ask. Has a Veterinarian reviewed and approved the number of times Jack is used, the distances he must walk, the stairs he must climb, and all of the other physical challenges foisted daily on an English Bulldog with stubby legs, a large torso, and breathing problems?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 3, 2023 21:50:02 GMT -5
This is an interesting topic, and a previous thread caught my attention as it was self-deleted by a user shortly after posting. It's no secret that that English bulldogs have been terribly inbred over the decades and this contributes to a short and often difficult life expectancy. The snouts of English bulldogs affect their breathing and contribute to issues of exertion--not that Jack and his friends are running five miles a day, but over time, bulldogs tire easily and struggle in warmer conditions. Where bulldogs once had a lifespan of 10-12 years, it's been cut by as much as half over the ensuing decades. The English bulldog is not the only bulldog breed. Other breeds of bulldogs include the American, French and Olde English. with different family trees than the English variety. An American Bulldog lives longer but looks much different than what most people think of as bulldogs. www.akc.org/dog-breeds/american-bulldog/Bulldogs are not sacrosanct to Georgetown, either. The first dog mascot at GU was a Boston Terrier, and the school also used a Boxer and a Great Dane before students bought a bulldog in 1962, a homage of sorts to Handsome Dan at Yale. Could Georgetown change dogs? Perhaps, but some breeds have already been taken when it comes to college mascots. Georgetown is not adopting a Husky or a Retriever as these are in use at other schools. Similarly, a Rottweiler, a Bloodhound, or even a Corgi would take a lot of institutional hand-wringing before that ever takes place. Still, it's a conversation worth having. |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Sept 4, 2023 22:26:28 GMT -5
The Ugas - who presumably have a bunch higher workload, I don't recall Jack really ever doing that many events - seem to have mostly done OK from a longevity standpoint: georgiadogs.com/sports/2017/6/16/uga |
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Post by MrDouglass on Sept 5, 2023 11:43:08 GMT -5
Actually, I think it’s the opposite. The Ugas spend a lot of their time at the owner’s home in Savannah. But Jack the Bulldog is called upon to attend events all the time, not just basketball games. I don’t know Jack’s specific schedule, but I know his website offers his services for all types of events on campus, possibly several per day. A veterinarian should look at the specifics, including hours, distances, temperatures, and stairs.
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Sept 5, 2023 15:33:09 GMT -5
I would highly, highly doubt that Jack is attending more than a handful of events on campus each week other than the start and end of the school year and if there was ANY concern he was being "overexerted," his handlers would curtail the attendance.
Obviously it is very sad that the most recent Jack had such a short life, and I don't know any details of the illness, but these things happen to all types of dog breeds.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Sept 5, 2023 18:40:52 GMT -5
I would highly, highly doubt that Jack is attending more than a handful of events on campus each week other than the start and end of the school year and if there was ANY concern he was being "overexerted," his handlers would curtail the attendance. Obviously it is very sad that the most recent Jack had such a short life, and I don't know any details of the illness, but these things happen to all types of dog breeds. Bulldogs have a short lifespan. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Sept 6, 2023 7:29:17 GMT -5
But Jack the Bulldog is called upon to attend events all the time, not just basketball games. I don’t know Jack’s specific schedule, but I know his website offers his services for all types of events on campus, possibly several per day. A veterinarian should look at the specifics, including hours, distances, temperatures, and stairs. “All the time”?! You admit to not knowing Jack’s schedule. Why would you think it includes stairs, events several times a day, etc… ? Maybe I missed when Jack was training with one of the GU sports teams up and down the Exorcist stairs. Are you an alum? Did you ever see Jack (any of them, including JD) on campus? I don’t know about you, but I never saw Jack the Bulldog on campus. Here’s a wikihow (with references) on exercising an English Bulldog: www.wikihow.com/Exercise-an-English-BulldogYes, it does not include riding a skateboard or driving a mini G car in front of the less than 4k in attendance at Capital One Arena (maybe all the Jacks need emotional support given the low attendance numbers and poor coaching of the last decade) and getting petted by hundreds of area school kids who got comped tickets, but I see: - 20 – 40 minutes of exercise a day (I can never have an English Bulldog) - brief walk everyday (“this breed tends to be prone to behavioural issues if not taken for a walk everyday”) - Play fetch (with a Syracuse box?) - Play tug of war (with something Orange?) - Give your dog the opportunity to be social (like at games?) |
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Post by MrDouglass on Sept 6, 2023 20:28:52 GMT -5
But Jack the Bulldog is called upon to attend events all the time, not just basketball games. I don’t know Jack’s specific schedule, but I know his website offers his services for all types of events on campus, possibly several per day. A veterinarian should look at the specifics, including hours, distances, temperatures, and stairs. “All the time”?! You admit to not knowing Jack’s schedule. Why would you think it includes stairs, events several times a day, etc… ? Maybe I missed when Jack was training with one of the GU sports teams up and down the Exorcist stairs. Are you an alum? Did you ever see Jack (any of them, including JD) on campus? I don’t know about you, but I never saw Jack the Bulldog on campus. Here’s a wikihow (with references) on exercising an English Bulldog: www.wikihow.com/Exercise-an-English-BulldogYes, it does not include riding a skateboard or driving a mini G car in front of the less than 4k in attendance at Capital One Arena (maybe all the Jacks need emotional support given the low attendance numbers and poor coaching of the last decade) and getting petted by hundreds of area school kids who got comped tickets, but I see: - 20 – 40 minutes of exercise a day (I can never have an English Bulldog) - brief walk everyday (“this breed tends to be prone to behavioural issues if not taken for a walk everyday”) - Play fetch (with a Syracuse box?) - Play tug of war (with something Orange?) - Give your dog the opportunity to be social (like at games?) Yes I am an alum, not that it matters. The point is that English Bulldogs have unique breathing problems and can only stand so much activity. (The first sentence of your WikiHow article says, “The English Bulldog is a breed that has numerous health problems and requires very moderate exercise.”) Before July, Jack’s website offered his services for more than bball. All I’m asking is whether a Vet has looked at his SPECIFIC activities. Not an unreasonable request. |
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Post by dariantownesvanzandt on Sept 6, 2023 21:52:58 GMT -5
Bulldogs aren't Faberge eggs.
Their predisposition to several medical issues are very often dealt with easily with the right amount of care ($$) and common sense TLC. I'm sure all the Jacks get plenty of that at GU. Given those conditions, they generally live longer than their origin breeds - Alaunts, Mastiffs, etc. They're underrated athletes, but also exceedingly capable of letting you know when they're done for the day.
Sadly, many owners don't understand those realities before getting their bulldogs -- b/c they're not as plug & play as mutts and many working, terrier, and smaller breeds. The health metrics (especially lifespan) are severely skewed by the number of first-time and under-prepared owners who are overwhelmed by the cuteness of a baby bulldog without being able to properly care for them.
Butler's retired Blues have lived 13, 9, and 12 (still going) years. Recent Jacks have lived 'til 12, 11 (living), and 10 (alive) -- with just the most recent Jack passing away at a very young age.
My bulldog was flying through canine agility courses at 9 years old, and swimming & still enjoying regular walks at age 13. There's no reason a bulldog couldn't handle the very limited duties of a daily campus appearance or two, plus the occasional CapOne game, with flying colors for a good 7 or 8 years and maybe even longer.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Sept 6, 2023 22:48:42 GMT -5
“All the time”?! You admit to not knowing Jack’s schedule. Why would you think it includes stairs, events several times a day, etc… ? Maybe I missed when Jack was training with one of the GU sports teams up and down the Exorcist stairs. Are you an alum? Did you ever see Jack (any of them, including JD) on campus? I don’t know about you, but I never saw Jack the Bulldog on campus. Here’s a wikihow (with references) on exercising an English Bulldog: www.wikihow.com/Exercise-an-English-BulldogYes, it does not include riding a skateboard or driving a mini G car in front of the less than 4k in attendance at Capital One Arena (maybe all the Jacks need emotional support given the low attendance numbers and poor coaching of the last decade) and getting petted by hundreds of area school kids who got comped tickets, but I see: - 20 – 40 minutes of exercise a day (I can never have an English Bulldog) - brief walk everyday (“this breed tends to be prone to behavioural issues if not taken for a walk everyday”) - Play fetch (with a Syracuse box?) - Play tug of war (with something Orange?) - Give your dog the opportunity to be social (like at games?) Yes I am an alum, not that it matters. The point is that English Bulldogs have unique breathing problems and can only stand so much activity. (The first sentence of your WikiHow article says, “The English Bulldog is a breed that has numerous health problems and requires very moderate exercise.”) Before July, Jack’s website offered his services for more than bball. All I’m asking is whether a Vet has looked at his SPECIFIC activities. Not an unreasonable request. It does matter in the sense that you would be on campus to see if Jack’s around. Why wouldn’t Jack have proper vet care? Why do you need to know? As the last poster wrote, the previous Jacks are alive, but were retired from GU activities (i.e., proper care), and English Bulldogs are not as delicate as you think. |
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Post by MrDouglass on Sept 6, 2023 23:51:22 GMT -5
I don’t understand the reluctance to answer questions about Jack’s care. I’m not assuming he’s mistreated. I just don’t want to assume otherwise. As a Georgetown stakeholder, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask.
Another question is whether Jack lives with a family. Dogs are family. Does Jack have a family, or just a busy “caretaker” and a cast of rotating student handlers? That’s not a family.
I’ve looked at dog mascots around the country, and lots of them live with an actual family in a home far removed from the busy campus. I think Jack should have a family, and it would be great if he lived with other dogs too.
If Georgetown is going to use a live animal for public purposes, Georgetown’s stakeholders are entitled to know how that animal is treated. In detail.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Sept 7, 2023 7:35:24 GMT -5
I don’t understand the reluctance to answer questions about Jack’s care. I’m not assuming he’s mistreated. I just don’t want to assume otherwise. As a Georgetown stakeholder, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask. Another question is whether Jack lives with a family. Dogs are family. Does Jack have a family, or just a busy “caretaker” and a cast of rotating student handlers? That’s not a family. I’ve looked at dog mascots around the country, and lots of them live with an actual family in a home far removed from the busy campus. I think Jack should have a family, and it would be great if he lived with other dogs too. If Georgetown is going to use a live animal for public purposes, Georgetown’s stakeholders are entitled to know how that animal is treated. In detail. Oh, you’ve made a lot of assumptions (i.e., stairs, etc…). The answers you seek are out there. Google is your friend. Btw, as a stakeholder, are we “entitled” to know the men’s basketball roster by now? |
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Sept 7, 2023 14:56:17 GMT -5
I don’t understand the reluctance to answer questions about Jack’s care. I’m not assuming he’s mistreated. I just don’t want to assume otherwise. As a Georgetown stakeholder, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask. Another question is whether Jack lives with a family. Dogs are family. Does Jack have a family, or just a busy “caretaker” and a cast of rotating student handlers? That’s not a family. I’ve looked at dog mascots around the country, and lots of them live with an actual family in a home far removed from the busy campus. I think Jack should have a family, and it would be great if he lived with other dogs too. If Georgetown is going to use a live animal for public purposes, Georgetown’s stakeholders are entitled to know how that animal is treated. In detail. Why is your assumption in all of this that Jack is mistreated? |
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Post by MrDouglass on Sept 7, 2023 18:33:51 GMT -5
I don’t understand the reluctance to answer questions about Jack’s care. I’m not assuming he’s mistreated. I just don’t want to assume otherwise. As a Georgetown stakeholder, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask. Another question is whether Jack lives with a family. Dogs are family. Does Jack have a family, or just a busy “caretaker” and a cast of rotating student handlers? That’s not a family. I’ve looked at dog mascots around the country, and lots of them live with an actual family in a home far removed from the busy campus. I think Jack should have a family, and it would be great if he lived with other dogs too. If Georgetown is going to use a live animal for public purposes, Georgetown’s stakeholders are entitled to know how that animal is treated. In detail. Why is your assumption in all of this that Jack is mistreated? It’s not. Please read my post. |
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Sept 7, 2023 20:04:34 GMT -5
Why is your assumption in all of this that Jack is mistreated? It’s not. Please read my post. No thanks. hm |
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Sept 8, 2023 11:00:28 GMT -5
Why is your assumption in all of this that Jack is mistreated? It’s not. Please read my post. Just because you said that is not your assumption does not mean that everything else you have written wasn't based on that assumption. Why don't you just ask the university for access to Jack's vet records and explain why you feel entitled to (and care about) that information? |
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 2, 2023 13:54:26 GMT -5
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 2, 2023 14:05:21 GMT -5
Meanwhile...
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 8, 2024 14:42:47 GMT -5
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