hoyas315
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Post by hoyas315 on Aug 8, 2023 16:31:45 GMT -5
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Aug 8, 2023 23:32:36 GMT -5
I wish we could align with Cal, Duke & Stanford. The Big East is loaded with academic misfits.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 9, 2023 10:55:07 GMT -5
I wish we could align with Cal, Duke & Stanford. The Big East is loaded with academic misfits. It won't happen, but that would be great--mostly because of Duke. I'd be less excited about California/Stanford only, given that they've had only middling athletic success. But, I'd happily take them over schools like Dayton, San Francisco, St. Louis, or any of the other West Coast Catholic schools (other than Gonzaga).
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 9, 2023 10:58:50 GMT -5
There are two schools we are looking at. Gonzaga and a school from the ACC. We aren’t looking to add any mediocre schools Who is "we"? I don't see any indication the Big East itself is actually looking at any expansion. For now, Connecticut isn't going anywhere. And what school from the ACC? The ACC's terms and conditions for departure are so onerous, it's hard to imagine any ACC school leaving for the Big East, especially considering any such school would not only have to pay the departure fees, but also find a place for its football team. I really do no want to get into the mess of having football schools unless the programs are super good fits. Connecticut fit the bill because their football stinks, and they are really more of a basketball school. Some of the old Big East programs would also fit the mold, Duke's basketball tradition would make them a fantastic fit. But there aren't many others.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Aug 9, 2023 13:07:42 GMT -5
There are two schools we are looking at. Gonzaga and a school from the ACC. We aren’t looking to add any mediocre schools Who is "we"? I don't see any indication the Big East itself is actually looking at any expansion. For now, Connecticut isn't going anywhere. And what school from the ACC? The ACC's terms and conditions for departure are so onerous, it's hard to imagine any ACC school leaving for the Big East, especially considering any such school would not only have to pay the departure fees, but also find a place for its football team. I really do no want to get into the mess of having football schools unless the programs are super good fits. Connecticut fit the bill because their football stinks, and they are really more of a basketball school. Some of the old Big East programs would also fit the mold, Duke's basketball tradition would make them a fantastic fit. But there aren't many others. If a select number of ACC football schools get poached, the ACC would unravel and exit fees may be moot.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Aug 9, 2023 13:57:02 GMT -5
Let’s assume Cal and Stanford do go to the ACC, and also treat Notre Dame as an ACC school for now. That’s 17 teams, for now. And the Big Ten and SEC are at 16? If the latter two decide to go to 20, it could go something like:
Big Ten adds Notre Dame, Cal, Stanford, UVA. SEC adds FSU, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC.
Suddenly the ACC is back down to nine schools, and maybe the Big XII is able to peal off Louisville, Virginia Tech, NC State, and Miami, dropping the ACC to five schools: Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Pitt, and Boston College.
There obviously are a lot of “ifs” in this scenario, and it depends on the three other big football conferences all going to 20, and taking all 12 schools needed to get there from the ACC. But even if that exact scenario doesn’t play out, the ACC unquestionably is home to the most attractive targets for the Big Ten and SEC. And in my opinion, at least, even the ACC leftovers are more attractive than the other schools mentioned on this thread.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 9, 2023 15:47:30 GMT -5
Let’s assume Cal and Stanford do go to the ACC, and also treat Notre Dame as an ACC school for now. That’s 17 teams, for now. And the Big Ten and SEC are at 16? If the latter two decide to go to 20, it could go something like: Big Ten adds Notre Dame, Cal, Stanford, UVA. SEC adds FSU, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC. Suddenly the ACC is back down to nine schools, and maybe the Big XII is able to peal off Louisville, Virginia Tech, NC State, and Miami, dropping the ACC to five schools: Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Pitt, and Boston College. There obviously are a lot of “ifs” in this scenario, and it depends on the three other big football conferences all going to 20, and taking all 12 schools needed to get there from the ACC. But even if that exact scenario doesn’t play out, the ACC unquestionably is home to the most attractive targets for the Big Ten and SEC. And in my opinion, at least, even the ACC leftovers are more attractive than the other schools mentioned on this thread.This is certainly a plausible scenario. The ACC's long-term well being really depends on how ironclad/draconian its exit fees are, whether schools are willing to pay those fees, and whether the SEC/Big 10/Big 12 are willing to accommodate 20 schools each. This is why the Big East should sit tight and not make any stupid adds for the sake of expansion. Even if unlikely, I would rather have a Big East in 2028 or 2030 with the current group plus Duke, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, etc. than Dayton, San Francisco, St. Mary's, etc. But, even in that scenario, football is still a big problem, and I don't want a scenario again where the Big East's health is dependent on football. And with schools like Dayton, St. Louis, etc. the Big East has all the leverage, so there is no reason to add them now. They would always leap at an invite if it was extended. So, we might as well wait and see what shakes out of the current moves and wait a few years to see if there are good basketball scraps that can be picked up.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 9, 2023 17:00:36 GMT -5
I wish we could align with Cal, Duke & Stanford. The Big East is loaded with academic misfits. How can you seriously talk academics in the same post you're advocating flying student-athletes across the country for competitions?
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Aug 9, 2023 17:14:14 GMT -5
I don't get it. What's wrong with what we have now? Leave the BE alone. The only school that would fit is Syracuse and that won't happen because of football. So let's leave well enough alone. If it ain't broke...
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Aug 9, 2023 17:32:57 GMT -5
UCONN or no, the Big East is in a great position relative to just about everyone other than the SEC. The bigger threats as I see it are the existential threats to the college athletics system as a whole.
First, the possibility that the SEC and B10 (and maybe the B12 and ACC?) will secede entirely from the NCAA for all sports, leaving non-power football schools in a permanent second class position. Ideally, as Pitino and others have suggested, the football programs themselves should split off and do their own thing, allowing all other sports to organize in a more sane manner by region and athletics budget. But if they pull everything to start their own new super $$$ college athletics structure, that's a problem for the Big East and GU.
The other threat is full professionalism of mens' basketball. For now, institutions are still able to pretend this is amateur athletics and that they really are arms length from any "NIL" payments. But if/when that charade drops, there will likely be a big time shake up, in which many institutions may decide to pull out of the whole thing. I'm not sure what side of that fence Georgetown would land on--as all indications recently have been an institutional commitment to competing in the current "NIL" climate. But there is no doubt in my mind that full professionalism will cause massive upheaval.
Best to just enjoy the ride as long as it still going on!
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CTHoya08
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Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Aug 9, 2023 17:59:13 GMT -5
Let’s assume Cal and Stanford do go to the ACC, and also treat Notre Dame as an ACC school for now. That’s 17 teams, for now. And the Big Ten and SEC are at 16? If the latter two decide to go to 20, it could go something like: Big Ten adds Notre Dame, Cal, Stanford, UVA. SEC adds FSU, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC. Suddenly the ACC is back down to nine schools, and maybe the Big XII is able to peal off Louisville, Virginia Tech, NC State, and Miami, dropping the ACC to five schools: Duke, Wake Forest, Syracuse, Pitt, and Boston College. There obviously are a lot of “ifs” in this scenario, and it depends on the three other big football conferences all going to 20, and taking all 12 schools needed to get there from the ACC. But even if that exact scenario doesn’t play out, the ACC unquestionably is home to the most attractive targets for the Big Ten and SEC. And in my opinion, at least, even the ACC leftovers are more attractive than the other schools mentioned on this thread.This is certainly a plausible scenario. The ACC's long-term well being really depends on how ironclad/draconian its exit fees are, whether schools are willing to pay those fees, and whether the SEC/Big 10/Big 12 are willing to accommodate 20 schools each. This is why the Big East should sit tight and not make any stupid adds for the sake of expansion. Even if unlikely, I would rather have a Big East in 2028 or 2030 with the current group plus Duke, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, etc. than Dayton, San Francisco, St. Mary's, etc. But, even in that scenario, football is still a big problem, and I don't want a scenario again where the Big East's health is dependent on football.And with schools like Dayton, St. Louis, etc. the Big East has all the leverage, so there is no reason to add them now. They would always leap at an invite if it was extended. So, we might as well wait and see what shakes out of the current moves and wait a few years to see if there are good basketball scraps that can be picked up. This, of course, is a key point: you don’t want to take those schools unless it’s fairly clear that the musical chairs have stopped and the schools on the outside are truly on the outside. I suppose that you can never be 100% sure, but if the other leagues go to 20 and the ACC crumbles as a consequence, I think it becomes a risk worth taking.
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hoyas315
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Post by hoyas315 on Aug 16, 2023 7:34:28 GMT -5
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hoyas315
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Post by hoyas315 on Aug 16, 2023 15:29:32 GMT -5
Then there is the Big East, but sources said those talks between the league and Gonzaga have been on ice for a long time. It doesn't sound like an outright invitation will come to fruition, and it's purely because of geography.
"Gonzaga went radio-silent on the Big East," a source said. "The geography is such a hard hump to get over for the student-athlete experience."
If Gonzaga was located in the Midwest, it would have joined the Big East a decade ago. As I wrote in 2022, Gonzaga could look for some sort of scheduling alliance with the Big East and/or other leagues if it really wants to think outside of the box while staying in the WCC. Playing three or four games spread out over the season and all over the country (doable because the Big East has 11 teams, so one team is always off) is a creative workaround, and one I'm told the Big East would be receptive to discussing.
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hoyas315
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Post by hoyas315 on Oct 9, 2023 8:46:22 GMT -5
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Oct 9, 2023 10:32:44 GMT -5
I don’t see Cal & Stanford as long-term fits for the ACC. There’s still the chance that in the next five years FSU, Clemson & UNC decide to leave the league. Things would then get interesting.
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Post by 104pleasant on Oct 9, 2023 11:38:57 GMT -5
I don’t see Cal & Stanford as long-term fits for the ACC. There’s still the chance that in the next five years FSU, Clemson & UNC decide to leave the league. Things would then get interesting. No doubt that the ACC will undergo loss when Clemson, Florida State UMiami, and UNC figure how to break the Grant of Rights Agreement before its expiration in 2036. Please note however that even with the exodus of Clemson, Florida State UMiami, and UNC the remaining FBC schools will still need a league to play in with bowl tie ins. Even with the loss of the prime time football schools and with the possible addition of Yukon the ACC Lite would make a solid, albeit not as good athletic conference. Duke Syracuse Pittsburgh SMU Cal Sanford North Carolina State Wake Forest Georgia Tech Louisville Virginia Tech Yukon UVA Norte Dame
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Oct 13, 2023 11:53:14 GMT -5
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Oct 13, 2023 15:14:53 GMT -5
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Oct 22, 2023 20:05:12 GMT -5
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 25, 2023 8:20:32 GMT -5
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