CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Aug 6, 2023 4:26:30 GMT -5
I don’t want Gonzaga. Too much travel, too many time zones. I definitely don’t want more midwestern A-10 schools, which feels like expansion for the sake of expansion.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Aug 6, 2023 9:46:40 GMT -5
I don’t want Gonzaga. Too much travel, too many time zones. I definitely don’t want more midwestern A-10 schools, which feels like expansion for the sake of expansion. Yeah, Marquette, Creighton and Xavier have been a major drag on the conference - definitely don't want any more programs like them.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 6, 2023 9:56:49 GMT -5
You take Gonzaga. It’s one trip to a different time zone for us. Not a big deal. This is about survival and the more brand names we have in basketball, the better. Not sure what Dayton or schools like that do for us. I don’t want to lost UConn and would love to add Gonzaga.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 6, 2023 10:02:00 GMT -5
You take Gonzaga. It’s one trip to a different time zone for us. Not a big deal. This is about survival and the more brand names we have in basketball, the better. Not sure what Dayton or schools like that do for us. I don’t want to lost UConn and would love to add Gonzaga. To me, the biggest criteria for any addition is that the school is very good at basketball and/or has that tradition and it fits in well with the Big East. Gonzaga is a great fit other than location, which is why it would be a no brainer to take them. The real problem in that relationship would be more for Gonzaga, which would have to travel far distances all the time, rather than everyone else. But, my guess is that with creative scheduling even that could be minimized a bit. Dayton and St. Louis to me simply are not compelling enough to add. What do they bring? They don't bring huge fan-bases, and they have had solid programs in the past, but also some down years (less so with Dayton than St. Louis). If you HAD to add a program, Dayton would not be a bad choice, but there's no compelling reason to do it. As far as Dayton/St. Louis v. schools like Syracuse, Pittsburgh, etc., of course I would rather have the latter. They have Big East tradition, they have much larger alumni/fan bases, and they would bring more value to the Big East. I am a big fan of keeping the Big East as it is until things shake out to a greater degree than they already have. Who knows, if the ACC falls apart, there may be even better choices to add to the Big East in 5-10 years.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Aug 6, 2023 10:56:22 GMT -5
Dayton would be a pretty solid choice if things proceed in the manner that many think is inevitable. I am less convinced that anyone really knows what is going to happen, but the Big East should keep an open mind as well as a list of perhaps twenty schools that do not have major football and might fit with the conference.
Pitt will end up in a football conference in that scenario, IMHO. SUcks and You Con are more up on the air. SLU at least has a decent program and would tie in a major market. Let's enjoy each season as much as possible and see what plays out.
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hoyas315
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Post by hoyas315 on Aug 6, 2023 12:07:13 GMT -5
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gunny
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Post by gunny on Aug 6, 2023 14:03:15 GMT -5
You take Gonzaga. It’s one trip to a different time zone for us. Not a big deal. This is about survival and the more brand names we have in basketball, the better. Not sure what Dayton or schools like that do for us. I don’t want to lost UConn and would love to add Gonzaga. I think you kick the tires on Gonzaga. You want to make sure that you are able to secure a great TV deal when the current one expires. Getting Gonzaga would help with that. Don't see any value in any other school and it gets you to an even number. Just not sure you could keep a true round robin with 22 conference games.
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CTHoya08
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Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Aug 6, 2023 15:22:38 GMT -5
I don’t want Gonzaga. Too much travel, too many time zones. I definitely don’t want more midwestern A-10 schools, which feels like expansion for the sake of expansion. Yeah, Marquette, Creighton and Xavier have been a major drag on the conference - definitely don't want any more programs like them. Those were good adds. But dipping down to the next rung of midwestern programs simply for the sake of addition doesn’t make sense to me.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Aug 6, 2023 16:10:49 GMT -5
You take Gonzaga. It’s one trip to a different time zone for us. Not a big deal. This is about survival and the more brand names we have in basketball, the better. Not sure what Dayton or schools like that do for us. I don’t want to lost UConn and would love to add Gonzaga. I think you kick the tires on Gonzaga. You want to make sure that you are able to secure a great TV deal when the current one expires. Getting Gonzaga would help with that. Don't see any value in any other school and it gets you to an even number. Just not sure you could keep a true round robin with 22 conference games. The only thing that could even tempt me into wanting Gonzaga is Few's commitment to the job, he's 60 now, so if he thinks he not gonna stop until after 70+, then sure bring them on board if it works and makes sense money wise. However, if in the end the money isn't enough to cover everything and it's would cause other issues with non-basketball sports, why complicate things? Realistically the only teams to consider in my opinion are Gonzaga (a bit of a stretch), Dayton (I can see the logic and renewed in-conference rivalry with Xavier, but not needed in any way), and if the ACC breaks down, Syracuse or Duke (if they had a poison pill). I wouldn't be against adding another team within the next few years for the right reasons, especially since an upside of adding say Syracuse back is that if Uconn ever does leave then a silver lining is we get the round robin back. We shouldn't be complacent obviously, but that does not mean we have to engage with every circus realignment throws since Dayton isn't going anywhere, the ACC could have some valuable pieces shake loose, and no super conference is gonna want to go through the trouble of making a BE school upgrade football a ton to just get their hoops. I think a stable, great product and conference is what is most in-demand behind the big money of other conferences obviously. So many schools just are constantly alert and paranoid of what conference might get gutted next, there is huge concern with the major restructuring and cost cutting needed for Wash St and Oregon St since the Mountain West money (if they go there) is fraction of what they have been operating at. And despite the general excitement of adding more sports powers to a conference for the network, it must also be somewhat frustrating to have a constantly mutating product when it comes to branding, marketing, logistics, etc. So having a major basketball conference that is steady and hyper focused on something it does well especially when it is non-football is ideally attractive I believe. TLDR; we shouldn't rush into anything just because of the circus going on elsewhere, and the ACC eventually being shaken up can yield something better than Dayton, and what happens to Gonzaga after Few retires if soon?
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hoyas315
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Post by hoyas315 on Aug 6, 2023 21:01:09 GMT -5
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Aug 7, 2023 3:35:35 GMT -5
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Aug 7, 2023 14:04:17 GMT -5
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Aug 7, 2023 14:18:35 GMT -5
Right now the BE should do nothing. Nothing that it happening right now is impacting the current BE. There are no schools right now looking for a home that make any logical sense for the conference. Sit tight, watch the fallout, and strategically pick and choose if/when/who to add.
As for the Cuse vs Dayton/SLU/other uninspiring Midwest schools question, the fact that there’s even a debate is silly. If Cuse wants back in the BE (assuming it’s an iron-clad long term agreement), you absolutely take them back. It would be malpractice not to.
And I agree with whoever said that the long term viability of adding Gonzaga really hinges on the long term plans of Mark Few. Overcoming the geographic challenges really only makes sense as long as Gonzaga is a top tier program. Once Few is gone, who knows what direction that program goes.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Aug 7, 2023 14:27:58 GMT -5
If Cuse wants back in the BE (assuming it’s an iron-clad long term agreement), you absolutely take them And I agree with whoever said that the long term viability of adding Gonzaga really hinges on the long term plans of Mark Few. Not sure why the Gonzaga Viabilty Principle doesn’t also apply to ‘cuse. Let them prove they belong post-Boeheim.
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CTHoya08
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Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Aug 7, 2023 14:33:12 GMT -5
Right now the BE should do nothing. Nothing that it happening right now is impacting the current BE. There are no schools right now looking for a home that make any logical sense for the conference. Sit tight, watch the fallout, and strategically pick and choose if/when/who to add. As for the Cuse vs Dayton/SLU/other uninspiring Midwest schools question, the fact that there’s even a debate is silly. If Cuse wants back in the BE (assuming it’s an iron-clad long term agreement), you absolutely take them back. It would be malpractice not to. And I agree with whoever said that the long term viability of adding Gonzaga really hinges on the long term plans of Mark Few. Overcoming the geographic challenges really only makes sense as long as Gonzaga is a top tier program. Once Few is gone, who knows what direction that program goes. Just to re-emphasize this point, there's no really much benefit to adding another A-10-type school at this point, when it looks likely that some schools currently in "P5" (or whatever we're calling them now) conferences might shake loose. If the ACC gets raided, or if a national super-league gets formed for football, some much-bigger-time schools could become available. Of course, that doesn't mean we'd have to take them if going back to the old hybrid "some football, some no football" just seems too unstable. But with a bunch of current "high-major" type programs potentially on the road to homelessness, I'd rather hold out to see if we can make something work with them than try to elevate some currently "mid-major" programs. For now, 11 schools, basketball focus, and true round robin works really well, and I don't want to see us expand just for expansion's sake and then potentially not have room for better options that become available later. Again, recognizing the potential risk of reviving the hybrid model, wouldn't you rather go from 11 to 16 with say, Duke, Wake, Syracuse, Pitt, and Louisville than go from 11 to 14 with Gonzaga, Dayton, and SLU?
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Aug 7, 2023 14:34:52 GMT -5
If Cuse wants back in the BE (assuming it’s an iron-clad long term agreement), you absolutely take them And I agree with whoever said that the long term viability of adding Gonzaga really hinges on the long term plans of Mark Few. Not sure why the Gonzaga Viabilty Principle doesn’t also apply to ‘cuse. Let them prove they belong post-Boheim. Because they're a much better fit geographically and have a history in the conference. A down Syracuse is still an easy enough road trip, and the game "means something" for GU, UConn, Villanova, etc. A down Gonzaga is a continent away and has no "juice."
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hoyas315
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Post by hoyas315 on Aug 7, 2023 15:20:41 GMT -5
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Aug 7, 2023 15:27:29 GMT -5
Not sure why the Gonzaga Viabilty Principle doesn’t also apply to ‘cuse. Let them prove they belong post-Boheim. Because they're a much better fit geographically and have a history in the conference. A down Syracuse is still an easy enough road trip, and the game "means something" for GU, UConn, Villanova, etc. A down Gonzaga is a continent away and has no "juice." That history includes ghucking us in pursuit of easy money - with them we are in “fool me once” territory, while Gonzaga remains “clean” in that regard. And the whole rivalry thing is dwindling rapidly as the key players fade away, so not sure that holds much weight. As for travel, whatever - Omaha to Spokane v Omaha to Provy is a wash and the rest is just a matter of a few minutes or maybe an hour on a plane. I for one would rather go to Spokane in winter than Lower Canada, but whatevs. I don’t want either, so just tossing ideas around.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Aug 7, 2023 16:33:41 GMT -5
Because they're a much better fit geographically and have a history in the conference. A down Syracuse is still an easy enough road trip, and the game "means something" for GU, UConn, Villanova, etc. A down Gonzaga is a continent away and has no "juice." That history includes ghucking us in pursuit of easy money - with them we are in “fool me once” territory, while Gonzaga remains “clean” in that regard. And the whole rivalry thing is dwindling rapidly as the key players fade away, so not sure that holds much weight. As for travel, whatever - Omaha to Spokane v Omaha to Provy is a wash and the rest is just a matter of a few minutes or maybe an hour on a plane. I for one would rather go to Spokane in winter than Lower Canada, but whatevs. I don’t want either, so just tossing ideas around. I hear you about not trusting them/wanting to extend a lifeline. But I think people really underestimate the significance of time zones when they look at these things from a geographical perspective. Having one team on Pacific when the rest of the league is on Eastern or Central is not good. It’s one thing for football, where you’re talking just half of the teams making a big trip, and always on a weekend. But it’s really doing the rest of the teams a disservice to subject them to a six-hour flight and jet lag midweek.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 7, 2023 17:33:43 GMT -5
For purposes of realignment or conference lineup, the key in discussing any addition to the conference is an obvious one--what is the benefit to the Big East of making X addition. This seems obvious, but is often lost among the discussion of who the additions might be, and also because the rush to realign has caused people to simply assume that bigger is better, which is not necessarily the case.
Right now, the Big East is made of of schools that for the most part have excellent basketball tradition, where basketball is the primary sport at that school, and where each school invests a fair budget into basketball. Even DePaul, which has been a bottom dweller for some time, has invested in their program, and of course, Georgetown got a shot in the arm with Cooley. The "new" members--namely Xavier, Butler, and Creighton--have more than pulled their fair share of the weight over time, fielding many quality NCAA teams. Villanova and Connecticut have won championships over the last decade.
For me, the main question going forward on any question of adding anybody is, how does that help us secure a TV contract when the current one expires in a few years? Say what you will about linear/cable TV, but TV rights are still the main and driving source of revenue for any college sport. Getting the Fox Sports 1 deal saved the Big East back in 2013. That TV deal was the primary driver in keeping the Big East viable, and making it stand apart from the smaller conferences, like the A-10, but even the AAC.
I see very, very few teams that, when added to the Big East, move the needle on a TV contract. Keep in mind that if you add a team, and the total per school stays the same, that's not adding any value to the existing schools. That is why schools like Gonzaga are so different, as it is a top program and it would instantly bring positive attention to the conference while adding an excellent program (the concerns about Few retiring eventually are legitimate, though). That is why Connecticut was a no-brainer to add back to the conference. It fit the conference in every way and it did not dilute its brand or reach. I just don't see how Dayton or St. Louis come even remotely close to the benefits that Connecticut offered, for example. Until a candidate shows up that does, we should keep membership closed.
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