jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 18, 2024 11:55:51 GMT -5
RB - From what I have watched, Sorber brings a ton of rim protection. He almost hunts blocked shots to a fault. It has to translate at a new level of play, but I am not concerned with Sorber's rim protection.
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blueeagle
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Post by blueeagle on Apr 18, 2024 12:20:30 GMT -5
Sorber’s got a little Uncle Jeff versatility to his game. Can see him being used as a 4. That’s the position he played for long stretches at the Capital Classic game.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 18, 2024 12:25:18 GMT -5
If I'm Sorber, I'm looking at becoming a Trayce-Jackson Davis with better passing and shooting for the NBA. High basketball IQ and effort can go a long way.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 18, 2024 12:57:41 GMT -5
RB - From what I have watched, Sorber brings a ton of rim protection. He almost hunts blocked shots to a fault. It has to translate at a new level of play, but I am not concerned with Sorber's rim protection. Yep. He is really good at blocking shots and discouraging smaller players to alter shots or not attempt them. But, he doesn't need to play a 5 to do this, just like Akok and many other stretch players. There is no rule that a stretch player nor wing can't be the top shot blocker and rim protector. What isn't a Sorber strength is protecting the space against strong bigs. There are many here who seem to think blocking shots makes a player a 5. Sorber would a a short and light 5, which is problematic, similar to a more muscular and heavier Cook who got moved around. The capabilities to own the space and to block shots and rim protect don't have to be the same player. For teams like Marquette who don't have a bulky big (yet) a Fielder and Sorber pairing later in the year could work really well (need Sorber's game to adjust). There was a great paper at Sloan Sport Analytics Conference years back breaking down skill types and mapped NBA players to skill mixes and showed their team make up. The skills mapping ended up with 13 different roles. It was one of the most insightful things I've run across (and remans so) and the 1-5 player model died 15 to 20 years ago and how teams are composed and needs and how players are used, shifted drastically. The mapping helps identify when a team lacks a big who can own space, guards who don't have point guard skills but can shoot, etc.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 18, 2024 13:04:31 GMT -5
If I'm Sorber, I'm looking at becoming a Trayce-Jackson Davis with better passing and shooting for the NBA. High basketball IQ and effort can go a long way. Sorber's passing at the Cap Classic was sick with drop passes on right side of the lane for cutting dunk on the left side (may have been Mulready dunking), but also the kick out passes, wrap around passes when driving to the hole. Best part about his passes were they were dead on target. His outside shooting is decent to good and needs work for the next level, but mid-range is really good and quite good close with small guard reverses and spin off the glass. Seeing this against D1 and more importantly Big East, it will take some adjusting, but there is a lot there.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 18, 2024 13:38:36 GMT -5
RB - From what I have watched, Sorber brings a ton of rim protection. He almost hunts blocked shots to a fault. It has to translate at a new level of play, but I am not concerned with Sorber's rim protection. Yep. He is really good at blocking shots and discouraging smaller players to alter shots or not attempt them. But, he doesn't need to play a 5 to do this, just like Akok and many other stretch players. There is no rule that a stretch player nor wing can't be the top shot blocker and rim protector. What isn't a Sorber strength is protecting the space against strong bigs. There are many here who seem to think blocking shots makes a player a 5. Sorber would a a short and light 5, which is problematic, similar to a more muscular and heavier Cook who got moved around. I don't think that's it. I get that a freshman is likely to get a bit muscled, and that was an issue for Fielder last year. Much like backcourt height, it's a concern (and a bigger one than backcourt height). But we're not going from good to great here; we're going from disastrous to passable. Our biggest single defensive issue last year was an inability to protect the rim at all. Forget shot blocking -- I just want to mildly alter a shot here or there. That doesn't mean I'm not concerned about size. Fielder got steamrolled badly at times last year, but I think the real issue with lack of size is getting overpowered on the boards, not so much in the low post. But if these guys are out there with another big, they are either a likely perimeter defender or we are asking both bigs to guard a significant span -- rotating and closing out outside. That former is a challenge for bigger post players and that decision making and rotation is often a huge issue for freshmen. I think most of the call that these guys are centers are not so much that they are centers; it's that neither looks ready to guard smaller fours or handle controlling half the baseline. This is true, but can you play a defensive lineup of Mack-Epps-Peavy-Big-Big? I'm not saying you can't, but if you try to defend with dual bigs, either one needs to be a Kevin Garnett type or the three perimeter guys need to do a ton of work. I do think a Fielder-Sorber pairing could be offensively just devastating. So much you could do with them. Do you have a link to that? The 1-5 system is long dead, but I'm interested to see the differentiation points to get to 13.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 18, 2024 13:42:57 GMT -5
If I'm Sorber, I'm looking at becoming a Trayce-Jackson Davis with better passing and shooting for the NBA. High basketball IQ and effort can go a long way. Sorber's passing at the Cap Classic was sick with drop passes on right side of the lane for cutting dunk on the left side (may have been Mulready dunking), but also the kick out passes, wrap around passes when driving to the hole. Best part about his passes were they were dead on target. His outside shooting is decent to good and needs work for the next level, but mid-range is really good and quite good close with small guard reverses and spin off the glass. Seeing this against D1 and more importantly Big East, it will take some adjusting, but there is a lot there. Yeah, even as I typed it, I realized I was downplaying his passing ability. I'm a Warriors fan who doesn't watch a ton of other games anymore, so my comps tend to get focused. What I was trying to center on is that there is absolutely a place in the NBA for a 6'9"-6'10" post player without three point range. Add in Jeff Green-level passing and he can carve out a strong place.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 18, 2024 14:50:59 GMT -5
Yep. He is really good at blocking shots and discouraging smaller players to alter shots or not attempt them. But, he doesn't need to play a 5 to do this, just like Akok and many other stretch players. There is no rule that a stretch player nor wing can't be the top shot blocker and rim protector. What isn't a Sorber strength is protecting the space against strong bigs. There are many here who seem to think blocking shots makes a player a 5. Sorber would a a short and light 5, which is problematic, similar to a more muscular and heavier Cook who got moved around. I don't think that's it. I get that a freshman is likely to get a bit muscled, and that was an issue for Fielder last year. Much like backcourt height, it's a concern (and a bigger one than backcourt height). But we're not going from good to great here; we're going from disastrous to passable. Our biggest single defensive issue last year was an inability to protect the rim at all. Forget shot blocking -- I just want to mildly alter a shot here or there. That doesn't mean I'm not concerned about size. Fielder got steamrolled badly at times last year, but I think the real issue with lack of size is getting overpowered on the boards, not so much in the low post. But if these guys are out there with another big, they are either a likely perimeter defender or we are asking both bigs to guard a significant span -- rotating and closing out outside. That former is a challenge for bigger post players and that decision making and rotation is often a huge issue for freshmen. I think most of the call that these guys are centers are not so much that they are centers; it's that neither looks ready to guard smaller fours or handle controlling half the baseline. This is true, but can you play a defensive lineup of Mack-Epps-Peavy-Big-Big? I'm not saying you can't, but if you try to defend with dual bigs, either one needs to be a Kevin Garnett type or the three perimeter guys need to do a ton of work. I do think a Fielder-Sorber pairing could be offensively just devastating. So much you could do with them. Do you have a link to that? The 1-5 system is long dead, but I'm interested to see the differentiation points to get to 13. I largely agree. Fielder and Sorber can cause shot adjustments. Cook (who is more muscular, weighs more, but shorter than Fielder) was moved around as much as Fielder was last year. Fielder through adding bulk and worked on technique helped improve the inside owning space on both ends, but I don't know that is his stong suit, and with Sorber shorter and lighter a strong middle role isn't in the cards (with his need to lose 20+ pounds before his senior year I don't know that what his adding bulk / muscle is for his future). He can offer a lot as can Fielder. But, I'm really hoping for a bulky big or a larger big upper classmen or grad transfer to fill the middle in a own the space role. Sorber will help as will Fielder. The key may also be in drawing bulky big fouls, but not making the fouls on them.
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wolveribe
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Post by wolveribe on Apr 18, 2024 14:58:56 GMT -5
Isn't Fielder 6-10 215? Cook 6-9 230 Sorber 6-10 238? Sorber also is reported to have a long wingspan.
Maybe Im misinterpreting but why does it seem like people are saying Sorber is smaller?
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Apr 18, 2024 15:11:17 GMT -5
Isn't Fielder 6-10 215? Cook 6-9 230 Sorber 6-10 238? Sorber also is reported to have a long wingspan. Maybe Im misinterpreting but why does it seem like people are saying Sorber is smaller? I'd say Sorber is closer to 6'9, 215 at this point.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 18, 2024 15:11:39 GMT -5
Sorber's passing at the Cap Classic was sick with drop passes on right side of the lane for cutting dunk on the left side (may have been Mulready dunking), but also the kick out passes, wrap around passes when driving to the hole. Best part about his passes were they were dead on target. His outside shooting is decent to good and needs work for the next level, but mid-range is really good and quite good close with small guard reverses and spin off the glass. Seeing this against D1 and more importantly Big East, it will take some adjusting, but there is a lot there. Yeah, even as I typed it, I realized I was downplaying his passing ability. I'm a Warriors fan who doesn't watch a ton of other games anymore, so my comps tend to get focused. What I was trying to center on is that there is absolutely a place in the NBA for a 6'9"-6'10" post player without three point range. Add in Jeff Green-level passing and he can carve out a strong place. Awesome! I great up a Warrior fan (but also lived in Seattle area so Sonics, and then Portland so Blazers - was in Portland as a kid for the Blazers Championship). But, Warriors have stayed my go to, through the Run TMC years (worked at the Warrior's training camp hotel in college and got to know a few players, including Chris Washburn), In college Rick Barry's boys hung around my college and Scooter Barry told me I sucked at shooting and taught me to shoot properly. Still a big fan, I played on a football in middle school with the coach and he tried to get me to try out for the basketball team (his first time playing) with him as out season ended. But, Sorber... he has a decent outside shot, around .300, but really nice mechanics, but it is a slow shot (doesn't seem confident he has the green light to shoot). A Jeff Green comparison is decent, but has a more fluid agile game, like Otto Porter or Greg Whittington.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Apr 18, 2024 15:16:33 GMT -5
Sorber gonna ball. Period.
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hoyariv71
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Post by hoyariv71 on Apr 18, 2024 15:18:04 GMT -5
I’m all in!!!!
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wolveribe
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Post by wolveribe on Apr 18, 2024 15:24:17 GMT -5
Yeah, even as I typed it, I realized I was downplaying his passing ability. I'm a Warriors fan who doesn't watch a ton of other games anymore, so my comps tend to get focused. What I was trying to center on is that there is absolutely a place in the NBA for a 6'9"-6'10" post player without three point range. Add in Jeff Green-level passing and he can carve out a strong place. Awesome! I great up a Warrior fan (but also lived in Seattle area so Sonics, and then Portland so Blazers - was in Portland as a kid for the Blazers Championship). But, Warriors have stayed my go to, through the Run TMC years (worked at the Warrior's training camp hotel in college and got to know a few players, including Chris Washburn), In college Rick Barry's boys hung around my college and Scooter Barry told me I sucked at shooting and taught me to shoot properly. Still a big fan, I played on a football in middle school with the coach and he tried to get me to try out for the basketball team (his first time playing) with him as out season ended. But, Sorber... he has a decent outside shot, around .300, but really nice mechanics, but it is a slow shot (doesn't seem confident he has the green light to shoot). A Jeff Green comparison is decent, but has a more fluid agile game, like Otto Porter or Greg Whittington. There are articles that specifically mention that he dropped from 250 to 238. Whether his is 6-9 or 6-10 means nothing to me, especially with his wingspan. But, where do we get 215 when everything that has been written about him says 238?
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wolveribe
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Post by wolveribe on Apr 18, 2024 15:32:42 GMT -5
Awesome! I great up a Warrior fan (but also lived in Seattle area so Sonics, and then Portland so Blazers - was in Portland as a kid for the Blazers Championship). But, Warriors have stayed my go to, through the Run TMC years (worked at the Warrior's training camp hotel in college and got to know a few players, including Chris Washburn), In college Rick Barry's boys hung around my college and Scooter Barry told me I sucked at shooting and taught me to shoot properly. Still a big fan, I played on a football in middle school with the coach and he tried to get me to try out for the basketball team (his first time playing) with him as out season ended. But, Sorber... he has a decent outside shot, around .300, but really nice mechanics, but it is a slow shot (doesn't seem confident he has the green light to shoot). A Jeff Green comparison is decent, but has a more fluid agile game, like Otto Porter or Greg Whittington. There are articles that specifically mention that he dropped from 250 to 238. Whether his is 6-9 or 6-10 means nothing to me, especially with his wingspan. But, where do we get 215 when everything that has been written about him says 238? Obviously quoted the wrong post.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 18, 2024 15:32:51 GMT -5
... This is true, but can you play a defensive lineup of Mack-Epps-Peavy-Big-Big? I'm not saying you can't, but if you try to defend with dual bigs, either one needs to be a Kevin Garnett type or the three perimeter guys need to do a ton of work. I do think a Fielder-Sorber pairing could be offensively just devastating. So much you could do with them. Do you have a link to that? The 1-5 system is long dead, but I'm interested to see the differentiation points to get to 13. The MIT Sloan Sports Analytics paper linked of the session page for "From 5 to 13: Redefining the Positions in Basketball" www.sloansportsconference.com/research-papers/from-5-to-13-redefining-the-positions-in-basketball - Also the Wired magazine write-up on it www.wired.com/2012/04/analytics-basketball/The paper came out when many top college programs and travel teams were shifting from 5 positions to 3, with a really good point guard / ball handler / creates for others, with three wing / shooters, and a big. This was Jay Wright many years, Kentucky with long athletic players, Duke some years in the "we'll try one and done" years, UConn amoung others. The mapping of the new 13 roles help see what was working, what your oppoents were doing and how to defend as well as create mismatches. With the line-up I think an interesting approch may be Mack-Peavy-McKenna (or top outside shooter-Fielder/Sorber-big with Epps as 6th man and rotate Fielder, Sorber, Cook, and true big with Fielder or Sorber always in. Peavy was the off ball help with Jameer Nelson running point and bringing the ball up his last year at TCU and would shift between a 2 and 4 role offensively, but on defense would defend the 1-3 role picking up the best scorer to shut them down, but also solid crashing the boards and getting the mid-range rebounds from missed 3 shots.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 18, 2024 15:44:23 GMT -5
Awesome! I great up a Warrior fan (but also lived in Seattle area so Sonics, and then Portland so Blazers - was in Portland as a kid for the Blazers Championship). But, Warriors have stayed my go to, through the Run TMC years (worked at the Warrior's training camp hotel in college and got to know a few players, including Chris Washburn), In college Rick Barry's boys hung around my college and Scooter Barry told me I sucked at shooting and taught me to shoot properly. Still a big fan, I played on a football in middle school with the coach and he tried to get me to try out for the basketball team (his first time playing) with him as out season ended. But, Sorber... he has a decent outside shot, around .300, but really nice mechanics, but it is a slow shot (doesn't seem confident he has the green light to shoot). A Jeff Green comparison is decent, but has a more fluid agile game, like Otto Porter or Greg Whittington. There are articles that specifically mention that he dropped from 250 to 238. Whether his is 6-9 or 6-10 means nothing to me, especially with his wingspan. But, where do we get 215 when everything that has been written about him says 238? I don't know about 215, but two of his video interviews as his high school team was getting back in working and another around the start of their season Sorber said he had dropped 20 to 25 pounds and was 220 to 225 as his lightest. When basketball (or football) players have really specific weights it is funny as a basketball player will drop 4 to 6 pounds in a game, but over a week their weight will fluctuate 4 to 8 pounds and over a season it is common for a 10 pound swing or more. At Capitol Classic Sorber next to Peevey, who is 6'10" and 250+, Sorber was just shorter. Sorber's wing span is impressive, but his fluidity and control is as impressive. Cap Classic the tallest player on the DC team was 6'7" in Rooths. But Caleb Williams was in the middle with Sorber and could move him, but Sorber has a lot of length.
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wolveribe
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Post by wolveribe on Apr 18, 2024 17:31:49 GMT -5
There are articles that specifically mention that he dropped from 250 to 238. Whether his is 6-9 or 6-10 means nothing to me, especially with his wingspan. But, where do we get 215 when everything that has been written about him says 238? I don't know about 215, but two of his video interviews as his high school team was getting back in working and another around the start of their season Sorber said he had dropped 20 to 25 pounds and was 220 to 225 as his lightest. When basketball (or football) players have really specific weights it is funny as a basketball player will drop 4 to 6 pounds in a game, but over a week their weight will fluctuate 4 to 8 pounds and over a season it is common for a 10 pound swing or more. At Capitol Classic Sorber next to Peevey, who is 6'10" and 250+, Sorber was just shorter. Sorber's wing span is impressive, but his fluidity and control is as impressive. Cap Classic the tallest player on the DC team was 6'7" in Rooths. But Caleb Williams was in the middle with Sorber and could move him, but Sorber has a lot of length. There are literally recent articles where he says 238. Maybe he dropped more but I doubt hes anywhere close to 215. Either way, he's a big dude, bigger than Fielder. PRobably taller/longer wingspan than cook
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 18, 2024 17:54:34 GMT -5
Sorber has lost a good bit of weight over the last 18 months. People may be subtracting the weight lost from the wrong starting point to get to 215. He is currently pretty lean and his frame upstairs is leaner. Much of the weight he lost was in his legs and butt.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 18, 2024 18:59:35 GMT -5
I don't know about 215, but two of his video interviews as his high school team was getting back in working and another around the start of their season Sorber said he had dropped 20 to 25 pounds and was 220 to 225 as his lightest. When basketball (or football) players have really specific weights it is funny as a basketball player will drop 4 to 6 pounds in a game, but over a week their weight will fluctuate 4 to 8 pounds and over a season it is common for a 10 pound swing or more. At Capitol Classic Sorber next to Peevey, who is 6'10" and 250+, Sorber was just shorter. Sorber's wing span is impressive, but his fluidity and control is as impressive. Cap Classic the tallest player on the DC team was 6'7" in Rooths. But Caleb Williams was in the middle with Sorber and could move him, but Sorber has a lot of length. There are literally recent articles where he says 238. Maybe he dropped more but I doubt hes anywhere close to 215. Either way, he's a big dude, bigger than Fielder. PRobably taller/longer wingspan than cook If you are talking about an athlete, yes an athlete, and you think they have the same exact weight and think they are that exact weight you aren't an athlete or weren't and likely have never known one. Not being harsh, but this is doesn't pass the laugh test. Reporters when will used published weights, no matter how old or off they may because it is a safe number to use. Hearing Sorber say how much he lost and what his lightest was at 220 to 225 you sure best that is more accurate as one data point than seeing a number sourced from a published number. At Capital Classic he was playing next to Peyton Williams who has been listed at 250 and 6'11" is more than 250 likely, but Sorber is 30 pounds if not more lighter. Uh, Fielder is 6'10" and Sorber is 6'9" so how is Sorber bigger? Sorber has really good length and watching him just off his toes get his finger over the rim is a nice site. Fielder is close to that, he had good length as well, but maybe not quite the length Sorber has. Fielder arrived last summer about 215 to 220 and over the season seemed to get about 15 pounds (maybe a bit more) mostly in shoulders, back, arms, and legs. Seeing Fielder at the end of season there is more to him than Sorber right now.
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