EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 17, 2024 12:58:39 GMT -5
Would you be more specific about which teams these are? The teams that last years had a 250+ player with solid minutes that the Hoyas struggled and they are staying or have a replacement that is similar (potral (there were 3 picked up in 3 days last ween in the BE) or player moving to more minutes): Xavier; Villanova, St. John's, Seton Hall, and Creighton. The Big East trend seems to be having a 250+ player for some minutes in the middle is a common. I've not actively kept track of exactly who is where, but the three that came out of the portal in the last week or so caused the "here we go again" trigger. Dixon spent as much or more time off the block than on it. Soriano is gone Bediako is gone but he wasn't a threat anyway. Kalkbrenner is much more of a threat rim running than posting up. Xavier didn't have any threats either at the 5 but Hugley next year could be good. Same for Essakondo @ PC next season Overall it's not a big deal in my view. Edit: I just saw that Reed from Michigan signed with Uconn. He's good too but I don't see him dominating Gtown
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 17, 2024 14:09:05 GMT -5
The teams that last years had a 250+ player with solid minutes that the Hoyas struggled and they are staying or have a replacement that is similar (potral (there were 3 picked up in 3 days last ween in the BE) or player moving to more minutes): Xavier; Villanova, St. John's, Seton Hall, and Creighton. The Big East trend seems to be having a 250+ player for some minutes in the middle is a common. I've not actively kept track of exactly who is where, but the three that came out of the portal in the last week or so caused the "here we go again" trigger. Dixon spent as much or more time off the block than on it. Soriano is gone Bediako is gone but he wasn't a threat anyway Kalkbrenner is much more of a threat rim running than posting up. Xavier didn't have any threats either at the 5 but Hugley next year could be good. Same for Essakondo @ PC next season Overall it's not a big deal in my view. Edit: I just saw that Reed from Michigan signed with Uconn. He's good too but I don't see him dominating Gtown The teams that lost their bulky bigs seemed to have gone to portal to find another. Now Providence did the same. Last year Cook nor Fielder could do anything and picked up fouls (Sorber is more a a lightweight than those two), but those bulky bigs. The impact is likely 3 to 4 fouls on our current players and 10 to 15 easy points for the other team. But, if Hoyas don't pick up a big that can curb this, running Fielder and Sorber as stretch 4s together creates and offence mismatch for the Hoyas benefit and always happy to trade 3 pointer for 2 pointers. Reed is a good add for UConn and he nor Stewart should be an issue.
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bluechi
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Post by bluechi on Apr 17, 2024 20:01:18 GMT -5
Big is critical for GU. VERY critical. If possible, 2 bigs to account to for injury maybe.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 17, 2024 21:01:00 GMT -5
Big is critical for GU. VERY critical. If possible, 2 bigs to account to for injury maybe. Two? No thanks.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 17, 2024 21:02:10 GMT -5
Dixon spent as much or more time off the block than on it. Soriano is gone Bediako is gone but he wasn't a threat anyway Kalkbrenner is much more of a threat rim running than posting up. Xavier didn't have any threats either at the 5 but Hugley next year could be good. Same for Essakondo @ PC next season Overall it's not a big deal in my view. Edit: I just saw that Reed from Michigan signed with Uconn. He's good too but I don't see him dominating Gtown The teams that lost their bulky bigs seemed to have gone to portal to find another. Now Providence did the same. Last year Cook nor Fielder could do anything and picked up fouls (Sorber is more a a lightweight than those two), but those bulky bigs. The impact is likely 3 to 4 fouls on our current players and 10 to 15 easy points for the other team. But, if Hoyas don't pick up a big that can curb this, running Fielder and Sorber as stretch 4s together creates and offence mismatch for the Hoyas benefit and always happy to trade 3 pointer for 2 pointers. Reed is a good add for UConn and he nor Stewart should be an issue. How and when did Sorber become a stretch four?
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bluechi
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Post by bluechi on Apr 17, 2024 21:13:25 GMT -5
Big is critical for GU. VERY critical. If possible, 2 bigs to account to for injury maybe. Two? No thanks. I agree. But if one goes down for injury....
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wolveribe
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Post by wolveribe on Apr 17, 2024 21:15:11 GMT -5
Transfer center,Sorber, Cook, Mutombo......Fielder can play the 5. How many centers do you want?
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Apr 17, 2024 21:28:57 GMT -5
Transfer center,Sorber, Cook, Mutombo......Fielder can play the 5. How many centers do you want? There is little reason to believe Mutombo is coming back. He walked on Senior Day.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Apr 18, 2024 0:40:08 GMT -5
Sorber is not a 4! He’s a 5 and a good defensive one at that. No one has mentioned Peavy. He will be a better rebounder and defender than Ish from day 1…and outside of Cook, likely our 2nd best rebounder. Would love one more big but we will already be significantly better than LY
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hoyariv71
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Post by hoyariv71 on Apr 18, 2024 7:27:05 GMT -5
right now, I believe Sorber is our starting 5, my question is, is Fielder ready offensively and defensively to have starter minutes at the 4, I’m hoping yes. I think Cooley needs some insurance in the portal at the 4 spot.
I see Peavy as a 3, with 2 6’1” starting guards, I don’t think we can go with a Peavy at the 4 starting, if that’s what ppl are saying.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 18, 2024 8:14:02 GMT -5
The teams that lost their bulky bigs seemed to have gone to portal to find another. Now Providence did the same. Last year Cook nor Fielder could do anything and picked up fouls (Sorber is more a a lightweight than those two), but those bulky bigs. The impact is likely 3 to 4 fouls on our current players and 10 to 15 easy points for the other team. But, if Hoyas don't pick up a big that can curb this, running Fielder and Sorber as stretch 4s together creates and offence mismatch for the Hoyas benefit and always happy to trade 3 pointer for 2 pointers. Reed is a good add for UConn and he nor Stewart should be an issue. How and when did Sorber become a stretch four? When he is 6'9" about 220 to 225 pound and has been shooting threes for the last couple years with decent percentage. Sorber is really long. If you think of Akok as a center then a shorter, far more athletic, and agile of him is also a center. Akok wasn't best at center, but rim protected and rebounded well, but was used his best as a stretch four. High school and "center" is really a mess with 6'7" guys as center, or even the tallest player at 6'3" or 6'4" is center (that is a horrible disservice to good players with acient minded coaches still around doing this to players). But, the 6'8" on up high school player will get a "center" label put on them and that takes away their skills and opportunity to really create great mismatches on the court. The players above 6'8" is as foolish as everybody under 6'3" is a point guard (Epps proved that myth wrong big time, just as the last 20+ years have). It all depends on whom you are playing. If it is Marquette Sorber could be fine, but Fielder also fits that role. A big part of playing center is boxing out and clearing space in the middle as common off ball offensive tasks and box out, keeping other centers out of the middle (including not getting easily backed down by other bigs), rim protection, and denying entry of the ball to the middle. The Big East has a lot of bulky bigs (the 250+ pound guys in the middle and last year Cook at 6'8" and 230 to 240 pounds was moved around at the other bulky bigs' will, that gap needs a center). If you watch Sorber actually play, not against small high school teams, he is an insanely good agile, athletic, bouncy, long, 6'9" player who can make shots at all three levels. Sorber is great at the rim to block and rebound, but playing against another pure center that isn't it. Sorber lost 20 or more pound before his senior year to help with knee pain and back pain, as well as help him get up and down the court (which he now does insanely well). Thinking of Sorber as a center is an absolute waste of his capabilities and all the great skills and ball IQ he offers. I think the last Hoya like this may have been Harvey Thomas, but add more skill and ball IQ.
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wolveribe
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Post by wolveribe on Apr 18, 2024 8:46:29 GMT -5
Transfer center,Sorber, Cook, Mutombo......Fielder can play the 5. How many centers do you want? There is little reason to believe Mutombo is coming back. He walked on Senior Day. Even so, thats still 3 centers plus another guy that plays center. Do we really want 4 centers plus Fielder?
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 18, 2024 9:19:28 GMT -5
Sorber is not a 4! He’s a 5 and a good defensive one at that. No one has mentioned Peavy. He will be a better rebounder and defender than Ish from day 1…and outside of Cook, likely our 2nd best rebounder. Would love one more big but we will already be significantly better than LY For every knowledgeable poster (which I think you are) who claims Sorber is a 5, I can find another knowledgeable person who says he isn't a 5. This tells me that it depends on the matchup and role. Increasingly many of the basketball thought leaders talk about ball handlers, wings, and bigs. Fortunately, Sorber is unequivocally a big. Do we expect to see two bigs on the floor together? I do.
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wolveribe
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Post by wolveribe on Apr 18, 2024 9:24:22 GMT -5
I think people are taking his expanded skillset thing too far. Yes, he can shoot (think he shot around 30% from 3), thats not a primary aspect of his game. He's a back to the basket big with long arms/good rebounding/decent shot blocking ability. He's gonna play the 5, he is not a stretch 4 by any means.
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hoyariv71
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Post by hoyariv71 on Apr 18, 2024 9:33:58 GMT -5
Sorber is not a 4! He’s a 5 and a good defensive one at that. No one has mentioned Peavy. He will be a better rebounder and defender than Ish from day 1…and outside of Cook, likely our 2nd best rebounder. Would love one more big but we will already be significantly better than LY For every knowledgeable poster (which I think you are) who claims Sorber is a 5, I can find another knowledgeable person who says he isn't a 5. This tells me that it depends on the matchup and role. Increasingly many of the basketball thought leaders talk about ball handlers, wings, and bigs. Fortunately, Sorber is unequivocally a big. Do we expect to see two bigs on the floor together? I do. Yes you are correct I really have no idea, the highlights I watch have him using multiple moves down low. He hits the foul line jumper, my thought is one on one he will be a tough guard but he needs space, so I don’t see a low post 5 fitting well with him right now. But sure, matchups, development other recruits will always dictate. I love his game, I think it’s a good problem to have with Sorber
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 18, 2024 9:34:09 GMT -5
I think part of the question is....even if he is not a stretch floor, do you find ways to get Sorber on the floor as much as you can?
For example, say we are fortunate and land Cliff O. Do you wait until you substitute Cliff off the floor to put him in or do you experiment with 2 bigs?
From the players we have targeted and the lack of a pure 4, I suspect we intend to play Fielder and Sorber there at times...when we don't play small ball.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Apr 18, 2024 10:21:55 GMT -5
For every knowledgeable poster (which I think you are) who claims Sorber is a 5, I can find another knowledgeable person who says he isn't a 5. This tells me that it depends on the matchup and role. Increasingly many of the basketball thought leaders talk about ball handlers, wings, and bigs. Fortunately, Sorber is unequivocally a big. Do we expect to see two bigs on the floor together? I do. Yes you are correct I really have no idea, the highlights I watch have him using multiple moves down low. He hits the foul line jumper, my thought is one on one he will be a tough guard but he needs space, so I don’t see a low post 5 fitting well with him right now. But sure, matchups, development other recruits will always dictate. I love his game, I think it’s a good problem to have with Sorber I understand that many on this board are looking at Sorber's athleticism and his shot making and ball handling skills. But folks, if the last few years showed us anything is that WE NEED A RIM PROTECTOR!!Even if our guards/forwards improve defensively and our defensive schemes are better I still want to see a real center who can be what Al McGuire used to call an "Aircraft Carrier" in the paint. Wouldn't it be great to see us score 10+ points a game in transition after a blocked shot. Hasn't happened much in the last 5 years.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Apr 18, 2024 10:39:17 GMT -5
I think it will be very matchup dependent. I suspect both Fielder and Sorber will play both the 4 and 5 at times.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 18, 2024 10:39:52 GMT -5
I think part of the question is....even if he is not a stretch floor, do you find ways to get Sorber on the floor as much as you can? For example, say we are fortunate and land Cliff O. Do you wait until you substitute Cliff off the floor to put him in or do you experiment with 2 bigs? From the players we have targeted and the lack of a pure 4, I suspect we intend to play Fielder and Sorber there at times...when we don't play small ball. Cliff O is a solid big and would see him getting solid time and backed up by Cook. Fielder and Sorber are similar players with Fielder being bigger. I could see these two having a lot of floor time together (once Sorber adjusts his game) and creating absolute headaches for other teams, particularly a Marquette that doesn't have a bulky big would give the Hoyas a good match-up. I could see rotations with Cliff O Fielder, and Sorber with two of them on the court at a time and being flexible. Hoyas need a true big, particularly if it wants to compete with all the teams in the Big East. Sorber and Fielder should be getting as much time as possible on the court to improve their game. Fielder made huge leap with adjusting his game during the season. The minutes to grow their games, but also the pairing of what they offer. Sober is a really good rim protector, in the same way Akok was, with up and down defending the rim, not a bulky big owning the space type. Fielder's size could help here against bulky bigs, but he was getting moved around easily (he has 15 to 20 pounds on Sorber after adding size during the season). The big gap for the Hoyas still is a true big that can own the space and not get moved off defending the middle by a bulky big. The bulky big isn't a player type that moves up to the NBA, but is a part of a lot of teams in the Tournament and (proportionately) more so in the Big East.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 18, 2024 11:44:53 GMT -5
Interesting conversation. I think pretty much everyone can agree that we are bullish on both Sorber and Fielder and hope that they can be key pieces for us going forward. What we don't know/don't agree on is what position(s) do they belong in, and how much should we prioritize their playing time and development vs. trying to win as many games as we possibly can next year.
Another wrinkle is that even though Fielder and Sorber have a lot of promise, neither brings the one thing that many of us are currently craving from a big man--rim protection. Either or both may be competent in that area, but it's not a calling card for either. And given how pronounced our defensive woes were last year, and the fact that our back court still looks like they're at risk of getting blown by, it would be nice to have someone that could block shots and deter opponents from having such an easy time at the rim (last years 2 point defense metrics were embarrassing).
One other factor I expect to come into play, maybe not yet but eventually, is that these guys are going to have their pro careers on their minds and are going to want to play the position and showcase the skills that increase their odds of being drafted. Typically guys want to slide down a position, ie. shooting guards want to show that they can play point, etc. I always remember freshman Vernon Macklin, who had no discernible perimeter skills whatsoever, proclaiming himself to be "a small forward", because that's what people thought the league wanted... For Sorber, at 6'9, unless he has a late growth spurt, he's not a center in the NBA. And if he's a 4 at the pro level, he's going to want to show the world that he has shooting range and perimeter skills. It may be best for us to have him in the center spot playing near the basket, but I am willing to bet he's going to want to show the world he can play on the perimeter (on both ends). As an aside I think you're going to see this same phenomenon turn up for Jayden Epps next year as he's going to want to show the world he can play point guard, but that's a discussion for another thread.
Ultimately, the pieces probably will not fit together perfectly and we need to accept that and make the best of it. Likely some guys will have to play some minutes out of position, and we will deal with the consequences of that (ie. being pushed around by bigger players or blown by by quicker ones). I still tend to think the best case scenario would be to land Cliff O or a player along those lines who can protect the rim, start Fielder and Cliff as your 4/5, and let Sorber play 20 minutes a game off the bench backing up both. It will not be perfect, but each of those 3 guys has skills and abilities we can use, and it should give the young guys enough development time that we're not harming our long term prospects either.
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