The Chase Vs. The Prize

[DFW HOYA]

A question in the Transfer Portal era: why do so many confuse the chase for the prize?

As of April 19, over 1500 Division I players have effectively withdrawn from their schools in search of another opportunity. How many of these will sniff the NBA? Twenty, maybe 30. Another 30 or 40 will wander through the G-League. Another group are headed overseas and get to tell their kids what it was like playing in Serbia or Chile. But for the clear majority of these 1500 transfers and counting, college basketball is the figurative end of the road for their athletic careers, and a large number of them aren't even going to earn a degree: the deflated basketball personified.

Yes, some leave because they're not happy with their coach. Some want to be closer to home. Some may be struggling to stay eligible. Others think that some bag money from a collective is all they need. And at some schools, maybe that's par for the course, to mix sports metaphors. But why does someone, who's not going to take a decided step up in their basketball careers, transfer from places like Georgetown after their sophomore or junior year, assuming that the above issues don't apply?

Malcolm Wilson likely had ample opportunity to leave in the last three seasons, but it appears he's on his way to getting a degree and play a grad transfer season for free, and good for him on both counts. Jordan Riley isn't one of those kids who went to three high schools in three years and living all over the country in alleged prep schools with an enrollment of 13. He grew up on Long Island, and went to public high school there. After two years, basketball at Georgetown wasn't what he had hoped, but he's halfway to a degree. Even if coach Cooley doesn't want him on the team, Riley has the ability to remain a student on financial aid and graduate in 2025, with a lot less headache as an athlete and a lot more opportunity to network for a career should he decide not to play overseas. So why do more players that aren't going pro simply stay enrolled and get a degree instead?

And then there's this guy. Remember him? He's headed to a fifth school in the last five years.

[hoyasaxaphone]

One of the things that I have always wondered about is how much credit a future employer is really giving to a Georgetown degree earned by a scholarship basketball player. Sure, there are a handful who pursue challenging majors and end up with GPAs that are consistent with those students who were admitted based primarily on the their academic qualifications. But my sense is most make it to graduation following a fairly easy path, supported by the program, and without much academic distinction. Yes it is a Georgetown degree and, most assuredly, these players grew academically and personally at Georgetown. But hard for me to see it as a pathway to a fast track employment world.

To put this in perspective, to make the Big East All-Academic team, a player needs to have a 3.0 GPA. When I was at Georgetown, a 3.0 GPA would have been in the bottom 10% - 20% of the class. I knew people who had those GPAs and what their class rank was. My sense is grade inflation over the years has just made this worse.

But that doesn't change the narrative of what you are suggesting, which is, staying and graduating from a good college like Georgetown is going to prepare you in the best possible way for your future - a future where basketball may not be much of a long term option. But I have no illusions that the degree, itself, is going to be some magic ticket to a successful career.

[Nevada Hoya]

And at some schools, maybe that's par for the course, to mix sports metaphors

Thanks for the track metaphor!

[CTHoya08]

Apr 19, 2023 16:18:35 GMT -5 hoyasaxaphone said:

One of the things that I have always wondered about is how much credit a future employer is really giving to a Georgetown degree earned by a scholarship basketball player. Sure, there are a handful who pursue challenging majors and end up with GPAs that are consistent with those students who were admitted based primarily on the their academic qualifications. But my sense is most make it to graduation following a fairly easy path, supported by the program, and without much academic distinction. Yes it is a Georgetown degree and, most assuredly, these players grew academically and personally at Georgetown. But hard for me to see it as a pathway to a fast track employment world.

To put this in perspective, to make the Big East All-Academic team, a player needs to have a 3.0 GPA. When I was at Georgetown, a 3.0 GPA would have been in the bottom 10% - 20% of the class. I knew people who had those GPAs and what their class rank was. My sense is grade inflation over the years has just made this worse.

But that doesn't change the narrative of what you are suggesting, which is, staying and graduating from a good college like Georgetown is going to prepare you in the best possible way for your future - a future where basketball may not be much of a long term option. But I have no illusions that the degree, itself, is going to be some magic ticket to a successful career.

I think this is largely true, but there are a couple of factors that support DFW’s initial thesis, such as it is.

(1) A GU basketball player probably has an easier courseload than a “normal” GU student, but probably does more schoolwork than most other high-major basketball players. So while employers might not look at a former GU basketball player like a Georgetown graduate, I’d think he’d be more likely to get treated like a “real college graduate” than a “graduate” from some other schools.

(2) For a lot of jobs, having a degree, any degree, is the price of admission (including, I think, some coaching jobs). Staying at one school and getting that sheepskin surely is better for one’s lifelong career than the peripatetic path that some players take, picking up a smattering of credits at three schools but not assembling the degree requirements anywhere.

I think that the sunsetting of the redshirt-transfer rule is going to hurt a lot of these kids in the long term. Having a fifth year in school is probably the difference between graduating and not for a lot of athletes who transfer.

[hoyasaxaphone]

I agree with your perspective, as I do with DFW's broad thesis. My point is merely that we should be careful to overvalue the Georgetown component of the degree for most players - beyond that it is a real college degree from a serious university. Having said that, I really like it when we recruit players that were at the top of their high school class who come to Georgetown with a view to play excellent basketball and to excel academically (and graduate). We have had a number of high school valedictorians and salutatorians come through, as well as other top students from academically competitive high schools. They reflect well on the program and on themselves.

[centercourt400s]

25% of those 1500 players are realistic about their futures but still want to milk the athletic glory and camaraderie for all it is worth.

The other 75% actually believe that they will make a career from playing basketball.

Most won't, but just try talking them out of trying.

[bostonfan]

Apr 19, 2023 15:54:22 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

A question in the Transfer Portal era: why do so many confuse the chase for the prize?

As of April 19, over 1500 Division I players have effectively withdrawn from their schools in search of another opportunity. How many of these will sniff the NBA? Twenty, maybe 30. Another 30 or 40 will wander through the G-League. Another group are headed overseas and get to tell their kids what it was like playing in Serbia or Chile. But for the clear majority of these 1500 transfers and counting, college basketball is the figurative end of the road for their athletic careers, and a large number of them aren't even going to earn a degree: the deflated basketball personified.

Yes, some leave because they're not happy with their coach. Some want to be closer to home. Some may be struggling to stay eligible. Others think that some bag money from a collective is all they need. And at some schools, maybe that's par for the course, to mix sports metaphors. But why does someone, who's not going to take a decided step up in their basketball careers, transfer from places like Georgetown after their sophomore or junior year, assuming that the above issues don't apply?

Malcolm Wilson likely had ample opportunity to leave in the last three seasons, but it appears he's on his way to getting a degree and play a grad transfer season for free, and good for him on both counts. Jordan Riley isn't one of those kids who went to three high schools in three years and living all over the country in alleged prep schools with an enrollment of 13. He grew up on Long Island, and went to public high school there. After two years, basketball at Georgetown wasn't what he had hoped, but he's halfway to a degree. Even if coach Cooley doesn't want him on the team, Riley has the ability to remain a student on financial aid and graduate in 2025, with a lot less headache as an athlete and a lot more opportunity to network for a career should he decide not to play overseas. So why do more players that aren't going pro simply stay enrolled and get a degree instead?

And then there's this guy. Remember him? He's headed to a fifth school in the last five years.

The story of Josh LeBlanc is a really sad story.  I was so impressed with him as a player his freshman year at Georgetown and thought he had a chance to be an NBA player if he kept developing his game. At some point things went off the rails and all of that potential never came to it's full fruition. 

I wish the best for the young man and hope he finds a place where he can be happy and can flourish.

[hoyajmw]

Can’t the answer be as simple as the kid(s) LIKE to play basketball and much of their identity is tied to it too, since if they are good enough to play in college at any level likely theyve spent much of their life having great fun and success playing the game? I get the deflated basketball thing but precisely because one knows it will end soon is the reason to play now (as there is no real later), and thus the chance to play more and in a different place with new experiences has real appeal? I never played the game myself (or any sport really) but did have an activity I loved at GU and it just happened to work out there but if it hadn’t I’m not sure I wouldn’t have been looking for another chance with a few similar schools. My bottom line: we need to be very careful imposing our prism on the views of others, and neither “the chase” nor “the prize” has to be the NBA — maybe it’s just to play and be happier doing so while one still can? There are of course instances where one has to wonder about/really question choices made and constant movement (leBlanc and akinjo being prime instances) but those higher profile examples I think are the exception rather than the rule of players who just want to be happier someplace else (maybe they just overestimated their ability to begin with/were sold the proverbial “bill of goods” to get them to sign on the dotted line)?

[Elvado]

Apr 19, 2023 15:54:22 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

A question in the Transfer Portal era: why do so many confuse the chase for the prize?

As of April 19, over 1500 Division I players have effectively withdrawn from their schools in search of another opportunity. How many of these will sniff the NBA? Twenty, maybe 30. Another 30 or 40 will wander through the G-League. Another group are headed overseas and get to tell their kids what it was like playing in Serbia or Chile. But for the clear majority of these 1500 transfers and counting, college basketball is the figurative end of the road for their athletic careers, and a large number of them aren't even going to earn a degree: the deflated basketball personified.

Yes, some leave because they're not happy with their coach. Some want to be closer to home. Some may be struggling to stay eligible. Others think that some bag money from a collective is all they need. And at some schools, maybe that's par for the course, to mix sports metaphors. But why does someone, who's not going to take a decided step up in their basketball careers, transfer from places like Georgetown after their sophomore or junior year, assuming that the above issues don't apply?

Malcolm Wilson likely had ample opportunity to leave in the last three seasons, but it appears he's on his way to getting a degree and play a grad transfer season for free, and good for him on both counts. Jordan Riley isn't one of those kids who went to three high schools in three years and living all over the country in alleged prep schools with an enrollment of 13. He grew up on Long Island, and went to public high school there. After two years, basketball at Georgetown wasn't what he had hoped, but he's halfway to a degree. Even if coach Cooley doesn't want him on the team, Riley has the ability to remain a student on financial aid and graduate in 2025, with a lot less headache as an athlete and a lot more opportunity to network for a career should he decide not to play overseas. So why do more players that aren't going pro simply stay enrolled and get a degree instead?

And then there's this guy. Remember him? He's headed to a fifth school in the last five years.

Wasted Talent, Sonny…

[hoyalove4ever]

Apr 20, 2023 7:02:34 GMT -5 hoyajmw said:

Can’t the answer be as simple as the kid(s) LIKE to play basketball and much of their identity is tied to it too, since if they are good enough to play in college at any level likely theyve spent much of their life having great fun and success playing the game? I get the deflated basketball thing but precisely because one knows it will end soon is the reason to play now (as there is no real later), and thus the chance to play more and in a different place with new experiences has real appeal? I never played the game myself (or any sport really) but did have an activity I loved at GU and it just happened to work out there but if it hadn’t I’m not sure I wouldn’t have been looking for another chance with a few similar schools. My bottom line: we need to be very careful imposing our prism on the views of others, and neither “the chase” nor “the prize” has to be the NBA — maybe it’s just to play and be happier doing so while one still can? There are of course instances where one has to wonder about/really question choices made and constant movement (leBlanc and akinjo being prime instances) but those higher profile examples I think are the exception rather than the rule of players who just want to be happier someplace else (maybe they just overestimated their ability to begin with/were sold the proverbial “bill of goods” to get them to sign on the dotted line)?

This debate is interesting, but in the end, most of us on this board value a college degree much more than many college basketball players. Many of them value playing ball, having fun doing it someplace they are happy, and having the chance to keep the ball bouncing at the next stop.