hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,848
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 19, 2023 22:00:24 GMT -5
It matters who you align and associate with. It adds to the enjoyment of going to games when some of your friends attended opposing conference schools, like you see in the Ivies, Big 10, Pac 10, ACC, etc. So we should dilute the quality and value of the league so golf buddies can talk about in-conference games? Just because you don't "associate" with people who went to schools with higher acceptance rates doesn't mean that's true for all alums lol. I've gone to my friends' schools games and vice versa because it's fun, most of the time cheap, and we enjoy CBB, it's whatever. If our sports, mainly basketball, improves and actually makes the post season consistently then games are more enjoyable in general. In a hypothetical ACC collapse, who else other than Duke (if they are even willing to go independent for football) do you suggest the BE add?
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Post by WilsonBlvdHoya on Dec 19, 2023 22:44:50 GMT -5
I'll take this ACC bait on potential BE candidates.....
Tier 1 - How about, ahem, Stanford (!), Duke, ND and Cal-Berkeley
Tier 2 - UVA, Wake, UNC, GT and BC
That's nine VERY solid candidates, some of which will prioritize football differently than others (without including other ex-BE members like SUcks, Pitt and Louisville and which are not undergrad academic peers of GU....)
Problem with the BE isn't so much widespread institutional disparity (the non-GU/VU members are more or less peers; is there that big a difference between Xavier, Marquette, SJU or SHU!??!) as that GU and, to a lesser extent, VU are such outliers....
Assuming DFW's Nostradamus-like powers hold up, it will be interesting to see how Eastern intercollegiate athletics shakes out among non-football worshipping/coveting institutions....
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tgo
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 799
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Post by tgo on Dec 20, 2023 0:42:03 GMT -5
And, Syracuse has been our biggest rival for over 40 years. So, maybe it doesn’t actually matter at all. Did you actually attend Georgetown? He did. And so did I, and i don't think the rivalry with Cuse - one of the best rivalries in the sport - would somehow become better if they started requiring that people be able to write with something other than a crayon to be admitted to "study" at their campus in southern Canada.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,599
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Post by guru on Dec 20, 2023 7:52:53 GMT -5
Did you actually attend Georgetown? He did. And so did I, and i don't think the rivalry with Cuse - one of the best rivalries in the sport - would somehow become better if they started requiring that people be able to write with something other than a crayon to be admitted to "study" at their campus in southern Canada. I highly doubt that dude went to Georgetown. And the Syracuse rivalry is dead now. One of the best rivalries in the sport? Joke. It should end.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 20, 2023 14:06:22 GMT -5
He did. And so did I, and i don't think the rivalry with Cuse - one of the best rivalries in the sport - would somehow become better if they started requiring that people be able to write with something other than a crayon to be admitted to "study" at their campus in southern Canada. I highly doubt that dude went to Georgetown. And the Syracuse rivalry is dead now. One of the best rivalries in the sport? Joke. It should end. I believe Syracuse probably outranks every BE institution outside of GU & VU. I would take Syracuse, BC and Duke.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,597
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 20, 2023 16:10:00 GMT -5
I highly doubt that dude went to Georgetown. And the Syracuse rivalry is dead now. One of the best rivalries in the sport? Joke. It should end. I believe Syracuse probably outranks every BE institution outside of GU & VU. I would take Syracuse, BC and Duke. Latest USNWR rankings for National Universities: #7 Duke#22 Georgetown #39 Boston College#58 UConn #67 Syracuse#67 Villanova #86 Marquette #124 Creighton #151 Seton Hall #152 DePaul #163 St. John's #201 Xavier Butler: #1 in "Regional Universities - Midwest" Providence: #1 in "Regional Universities - North"
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hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,848
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 20, 2023 19:31:17 GMT -5
I'll take this ACC bait on potential BE candidates..... Tier 1 - How about, ahem, Stanford (!), Duke, ND and Cal-Berkeley Tier 2 - UVA, Wake, UNC, GT and BC That's nine VERY solid candidates, some of which will prioritize football differently than others (without including other ex-BE members like SUcks, Pitt and Louisville and which are not undergrad academic peers of GU....) Problem with the BE isn't so much widespread institutional disparity (the non-GU/VU members are more or less peers; is there that big a difference between Xavier, Marquette, SJU or SHU!??!) as that GU and, to a lesser extent, VU are such outliers.... Assuming DFW's Nostradamus-like powers hold up, it will be interesting to see how Eastern intercollegiate athletics shakes out among non-football worshipping/coveting institutions.... I was hesitant to mention Stanford and cal simply because of their location and wonder if they would be open to being independent for football. Maybe at that point just add Gonzaga lol ND makes sense on paper but to be fair they ditched the old big East even when the new emerged with the catholic group and just eh to theirs anything other than football. Double goes for BC because they are just bad like do they actually add value in any way for tv money? Because I am still confused on this whole academic aspect when the BE needs to be looking to boost its value. I’d be shocked if UVA and UNC don’t move to a bigger football conference along with other major state schools. Too much money there imo. I have no real issues with GT or wake although the question remains if they move the money needle at all for each share. Same goes for Cuse and the real sense of rivalry has pretty much faded for many so if they don’t move the needle then they can take a hike. I see no reason to invite schools back (UConn being an exception as it was a self aware decision, brought value to the league, and wasn’t produced by their conference failing via outside forces). Hypothetically I could absolutely live in a world with Stanford, Duke and Cal, or just stay as is with the BE. UConn would have be under full blown psychosis to give up their situation for a group of 5 conf again and the spots in big conferences are so competitive if Duke isn’t getting one then UConn definitely isn’t. People got all worried in previous months about the stability of the BE which is only compromised when you bring in schools that have ulterior motives, provide little value, and histories of fickle behavior. I don’t mean to be pushy but i just find the idea of needing more academic schools weird if it might not help the league
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,735
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 20, 2023 22:07:43 GMT -5
I'll take this ACC bait on potential BE candidates..... Tier 1 - How about, ahem, Stanford (!), Duke, ND and Cal-Berkeley Tier 2 - UVA, Wake, UNC, GT and BC That's nine VERY solid candidates, some of which will prioritize football differently than others (without including other ex-BE members like SUcks, Pitt and Louisville and which are not undergrad academic peers of GU....) Problem with the BE isn't so much widespread institutional disparity (the non-GU/VU members are more or less peers; is there that big a difference between Xavier, Marquette, SJU or SHU!??!) as that GU and, to a lesser extent, VU are such outliers.... Assuming DFW's Nostradamus-like powers hold up, it will be interesting to see how Eastern intercollegiate athletics shakes out among non-football worshipping/coveting institutions.... One of the reasons why it's all but prohibitive for these schools to even consider the Big East is the amount of TV money they would walk away from absent a home for football. In 2022, Duke University received $38,831,515 in TV money from the ACC. If the grant of rights disappeared tomorrow, they're not dropping that for what the Big East pays out. In 2022, Georgetown received $4,809,382 for basketball rights from Fox and a whopping $14,285 from Patriot League football TV rights from ESPN+. This disparity is what led Cal and Stanford to the ACC. Yes, in some scenario they could play football in the Mountain West and allied Olympic sports in the West Coast Conference (Gonzaga, Santa Clara, San Francisco, etc.) but the Mountain West pays only $4 million per school and the WCC as little as $331,915 per school. The only reason why Oregon State and Washington State are going down this path is they they hold the keys to the Pac-12 bank accounts. If the ACC is carved up, they're looking at losing as many as 10 schools: two to the SEC, four each to the Big Ten and Big 12. Why not four for the SEC? Because they don't need to. Some combination of Florida State, North Carolina, Virginia, and Notre Dame would be the best-case for the Big Ten, with the SEC staying regional with Clemson and Miami. The Big 12 would add anyone and would quickly focus on Georgia Tech, Louisville, NC State, and Virginia Tech. What's left would be a shell of the ACC but it would still have more TV money than the Big East or other non-P3 conferences: Boston College California Duke Pittsburgh Southern Methodist Stanford Syracuse Wake Forest
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 20, 2023 22:18:47 GMT -5
Cal & Stanford need a better long-term solution. This move to the ACC seems temporary.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 22, 2023 20:34:35 GMT -5
ACC on thin ice. FSU wants out. Dominoes will eventually fall.
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