SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,397
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 4, 2023 19:39:45 GMT -5
I was surprised to learn that the Big East does not have any 5 star players on any rosters. From one of the TV commentators. Is this true or not a big deal. I thought Whitmore was 5*. Spalding was holding onto a late lead against Gilman in its conference playoffs in February 2020 when Whitmore caught the ball on the wing and exploded to the basket. As Whitmore rose for a dunk, a 6-foot-9 defender jumped with him, but as the defender started falling, Whitmore kept rising. Whitmore threw down a one-handed tomahawk that sealed the Cavaliers’ upset victory. That sequence, a part of Whitmore’s 34-point performance as a sophomore, convinced Spalding Coach Josh Pratt that Whitmore would play at a high-Division I college program. Pratt’s prediction proved true Thursday afternoon, when Whitmore, a five-star recruit, announced his commitment to Villanova, one of the nation’s top programs. www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/10/07/cam-whitmore-spaldings-five-star-basketball-prospect-commits-villanova/
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,962
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 4, 2023 19:48:34 GMT -5
It won't bother you that some of the kids will have to sit a year if dropped from Gtown? It's not a good look in my view. Coach gets fired, everyone gets waivers. This isn't written anywhere, is it? I'll never be on board with forcing kids out just to open roster spots
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,777
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Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 4, 2023 19:49:36 GMT -5
Akok couldn’t be a valuable asset for any new coach. But I think the roster next year will look drastically different. I’m sure many of our current players will find their own way independently from our coaching situation. It’s highly unlikely this will be anything like 2017 when Ewing kept everyone on the roster except Agau. The fact that Akok was recognized at Senior Day might suggest a change for next year. At the beginning of the season, Georgetown reported him as a junior, now it's a senior.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Mar 4, 2023 20:16:58 GMT -5
Never understood the Akok love. Elite shot blocker but little else other than an occasional three.
Not picking on Akok but part of a bigger picture on our roster. Based only on their on-court performance this year, I can't make a case for retention of any of our current players. Sad.
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bigskyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,095
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Post by bigskyhoya on Mar 4, 2023 20:32:34 GMT -5
Never understood the Akok love. Elite shot blocker but little else other than an occasional three. Not picking on Akok but part of a bigger picture on our roster. Based only on their on-court performance this year, I can't make a case for retention of any of our current players. Sad. On a team with multiple Primo donnas, Akok always hustles and never complains. Agree his game is limited but not sure he couldn't do more with a different coach.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
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Post by TC on Mar 4, 2023 21:11:23 GMT -5
This isn't written anywhere, is it? I'll never be on board with forcing kids out just to open roster spots So I looked it up, because I agree with you - In 2018, there was a Big 12 Proposal to grant waivers to any student/athlete whose coach is fired or resigns : baylorlariat.com/2018/02/01/big-12-proposes-new-transfer-rules-for-ncaa-athletes/I can't tell if that was ever adopted or not, but I think it's common practice for a waiver to be granted in that circumstance. For instance, Qudus Wahab's transfer waiver back to Georgetown was granted in August (Turgeon fired at Maryland), whereas Jay Heath's was held up until mid-November (Hurley still employed at ASU, ASU possibly didn't sign off). Last year, NCAA guaranteed any incoming transfer student's scholarship for the full five-year eligibility or until they graduate. I'm not sure whether this applies to transfers before this change (Spears, Murray, Bristol, Ezewiro). www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2022-08-31/ncaa-division-i-board-adopts-changes-transfer-rules
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bluegray79
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,100
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Post by bluegray79 on Mar 4, 2023 21:26:41 GMT -5
Never understood the Akok love. Elite shot blocker but little else other than an occasional three. Not picking on Akok but part of a bigger picture on our roster. Based only on their on-court performance this year, I can't make a case for retention of any of our current players. Sad. On a team with multiple Primo donnas, Akok always hustles and never complains. Agree his game is limited but not sure he couldn't do more with a different coach. Disagree with his limited game. As a freshman at UConn, he busted out with a unique set of skills and lots of people took notice. Had a pretty decent 3-point stroke coming here but has been used in a way that his offensive game is undefined -- like the entire identity-less offense -- so we see some 3-point shooting (very spare and streaky) and a couple of alley oops each game) and his defensive game is mostly about blocking shots and guarding the perimeter. I am sure a different coach and approach could bring out his all round game. The kid hustles and gives his all and does things away from the ball that matter (e.g., block passing lanes). He also overcame a huge question mark this year by not getting injured and missing multiple games. I wish he could play for us next year under a new coach.
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kettlehill
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,149
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Post by kettlehill on Mar 4, 2023 22:02:08 GMT -5
I am surely going against the grain here, but I have always thought that Primo is a very skilled offensive basketball player. I think we all are inclined to downgrade even ridicule him because he has the ball in his hands so much and plays losing basketball. He is an extension of Coach Ewing on the court, who clearly does not have an idea of how to play winning basketball. Could he be taught how to be a productive BE player? I don't know, but I am sure that he has the physical skills to do so.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 4, 2023 23:34:22 GMT -5
I believe Pitino would have gotten 5 to 7 BE wins out of this group
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 5, 2023 0:36:12 GMT -5
I am surely going against the grain here, but I have always thought that Primo is a very skilled offensive basketball player. I think we all are inclined to downgrade even ridicule him because he has the ball in his hands so much and plays losing basketball. He is an extension of Coach Ewing on the court, who clearly does not have an idea of how to play winning basketball. Could he be taught how to be a productive BE player? I don't know, but I am sure that he has the physical skills to do so. Primo could be a much better player with good coaching if he accepted it. If he insisted on playing the way he does now, I think a better coach would have him ride the bench.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,386
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Post by drquigley on Mar 5, 2023 11:50:44 GMT -5
I think the easiest way to determine how good these guys are and which, if any, will or should be starters next year under a new coach is to ask ourselves, "which of our five starters would be a starter on any of the top five teams in our conference?" My answer? None. Now maybe a new coach and a new offensive and defensive philosophy will allow these guys to flourish. I keep thinking Heath has a greater upside than we've seen this year. And obviously a new coach who can control Spears and Murray's hero ball tendencies might elevate their game. But right now? None.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 5, 2023 12:04:52 GMT -5
I think the easiest way to determine how good these guys are and which, if any, will or should be starters next year under a new coach is to ask ourselves, "which of our five starters would be a starter on any of the top five teams in our conference?" My answer? None. Now maybe a new coach and a new offensive and defensive philosophy will allow these guys to flourish. I keep thinking Heath has a greater upside than we've seen this year. And obviously a new coach who can control Spears and Murray's hero ball tendencies might elevate their game. But right now? None. No, that's absolutely not the right way (or easiest) to determine how good these guys are. You can't say "would the Ewing-produced version of these players start on another team" if your goal is to figure out whether a "different coach-produced version of these players would start on another team." Akok in my view would start on most teams. He can defend his position as well as anyone, can rim protect, and has stretch capabilities incredibly useful in today's game. It's hard to see how his skillset wouldn't be highly valued. Q would not. With the three guards it's much harder to tell. I suspect that Primo's offensive abilities are sufficient that a coach providing a tighter leash would find him very useful.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,362
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Post by calhoya on Mar 5, 2023 12:05:16 GMT -5
I think that at least a few of the players are better than we think, but they did not fit--either as a unit or in the "style" of play being coached. For example, put Primo on a team with a couple of good perimeter shooters and a surehanded post and suddenly his game would look much better. Of course, it would take a coach making an effort to rein him in when he goes selfish. I feel that Heath can be a good player. Akok is an enigma to me--is he truly limited to defense or would a different coach find a way to integrate him into the offense other than the occasional corner 3. Bristol and Riley at this point are role players and energy guys who need someone to help them develop their offensive game. Wahab is probably what we see and under two different coaching staffs has been the same player. Murray is also an enigma--wants to be the alpha dog but does not have a consistent shot on offense, often careless with the ball and takes off too many plays on defense, and yet he was an All-Freshman player last year for LSU. Would certainly like to see him with a different coach who shortened his leash considerably.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 5, 2023 12:24:47 GMT -5
I think the easiest way to determine how good these guys are and which, if any, will or should be starters next year under a new coach is to ask ourselves, "which of our five starters would be a starter on any of the top five teams in our conference?" My answer? None. Now maybe a new coach and a new offensive and defensive philosophy will allow these guys to flourish. I keep thinking Heath has a greater upside than we've seen this year. And obviously a new coach who can control Spears and Murray's hero ball tendencies might elevate their game. But right now? None. DrQ I believe that coached up versions of Akok and Brandon would be in the short rotation of every top team in our conference. I don't know if they would start but they would get real minutes. Primo I doubt because it's been said that he was the same player at Duquesne. Primo is talented enough to start for most teams but I believe his bball IQ would staple him to the bench on most teams in the BE. Probably all teams not coached by Ewing.
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Post by sleepysbro on Mar 5, 2023 13:03:44 GMT -5
Exactly. So can I assume that we need more than a new coach to be competitive (10-10 in BE) next year? My point is that there are some names being floated that might get this roster from two wins to four. There are some others that might get it to a middling record like that. But given the inevitable departures, yes, we’ll need some new players to go along with a new coach.
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Post by sleepysbro on Mar 5, 2023 13:04:53 GMT -5
My point is that there are some names being floated that might get this roster from two wins to four. There are some others that might get it to a middling record like that. But given the inevitable departures, yes, we’ll need some new players to go along with a new coach. If we don't get Pitino, there won't be a roster -- no holdovers, no transfers, no recruits.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,397
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 5, 2023 13:07:47 GMT -5
If we don't get Pitino, there won't be a roster -- no holdovers, no transfers, no recruits. No team? The death of Hoya basketball??
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 5, 2023 13:07:58 GMT -5
I wonder if Nickelberry and Murray are yet another packed deal.
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hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,861
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Post by hoyaguy on Mar 5, 2023 14:02:36 GMT -5
I wonder if Nickelberry and Murray are yet another packed deal. That should be an interesting storyline to follow after all is said and done
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,488
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 5, 2023 14:05:22 GMT -5
I wonder if Nickelberry and Murray are yet another packed deal. That should be an interesting storyline to follow after all is said and done If he wants to make money in the long term rather than the short term, Murray should decouple himself from Nickelberry.
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