|
|
Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 4, 2023 16:10:31 GMT -5
Looking at our opponent today, a few of those guys have been playing together for at least 3-4 years. Honest question: Should we also be taking into consideration how how little time our guys have had to gel as a team? We obviously have talent. When I think back to all the teams that have gone all the way, teams like 'Nova, the most outstanding features, that I can remember are cohesiveness, consistency, experience, and pretty much knowing how each other thinks on the court. Can we honestly expect this team to be doing the things that great teams develop over 3-5 years?
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,312
|
Post by SSHoya on Feb 4, 2023 16:22:00 GMT -5
Looking at our opponent today, a few of those guys have been playing together for at least 3-4 years. Honest question: Should we also be taking into consideration how how little time our guys have had to gel as a team? We obviously have talent. When I think back to all the teams that have gone all the way, teams like 'Nova, the most outstanding features, that I can remember are cohesiveness, consistency, experience, and pretty much knowing how each other thinks on the court. Can we honestly expect this team to be doing the things that great teams develop over 3-5 years? I think others have mentioned this already but Providence has 7 new players this year. He assessed them at "zero" last summer. He seemed to have been able to coach them up into a team. What would Cooley have done with Ewing's roster? Didn't some rating services assess Ewing's transfer class at #4 in the nation? I bet Cooley would have done better than just one victory in conference. “We have seven new guys,” Cooley said. “Trying to learn who we are and what we are. We’re basically at zero.” Clifton Moore and Noah Locke both have Power 5 experience at three different schools — two seasons at Indiana for Moore, four combined at Florida and Louisville for Locke. Their contributions will be vital. The Friars bet on the upside with three former decorated recruits in Bryce Hopkins (Kentucky), Devin Carter (South Carolina) and Corey Floyd Jr. (Connecticut). Carter was the most productive among that trio last season, averaging 9.0 points and 3.8 rebounds with the Gamecocks. www.providencejournal.com/story/sports/2022/07/24/pc-basketball-season-preview-offseason-analysis-coach-cooley-new-players/10134344002/Providence lost four starters from last year's team. It seems they have managed to "gel" under Cooley. Minaya makes it four starters leaving Providence after its historic season. Nate Watson, Noah Horchler and Al Durham have all exhausted their eligibility. Verbal Commits reported earlier Wednesday reserve guard Matteus Case had entered the transfer portal, making it five total departures for the Friars to date. www.providencejournal.com/story/sports/college/2022/04/06/providence-basketball-justin-minaya-nba-draft-matteus-case-ncaa-transfer-portal/9486273002/www.on3.com/college/providence-friars/basketball/2022/transfers/ |
|
astrohoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 303
|
Post by astrohoya on Feb 4, 2023 16:44:07 GMT -5
I think the answer to this question is no. But even if you think the answer is yet, the sad truth is that Ewing has clearly shown he cannot bring back any semblance is the same roster every year, so you have to factor that into account when evaluating the program. No Ewing team will ever be together for more than a year, let alone 3-4.
|
|
|
|
Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 4, 2023 17:17:17 GMT -5
Our recruiting class was ranked fourth in the nation!?
|
|
|
|
Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 4, 2023 17:19:10 GMT -5
About Cooley, I agree he is an excellent coach. You raised an excellent question: What would he have done with this team?
No doubt, something is amiss!
|
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxaphone on Feb 4, 2023 17:19:53 GMT -5
NO.....Excuses. Plenty of examples out there...beyond Providence. What we are seeing is what we saw when the transfer class came in. That is.....that there was talent there that might be able to compete in the middle of the Big East. The fact that we have but a single win speaks to how the talent on the team is used (positions, schemes, good in-game coaching, etc.). Gelling is the least of our issues. Though clearly it is always nice to have some player continuity. Having Heath out with injury allowed some other players to develop further than they might have otherwise. So now, with Heath back, the team is a bit more experienced (beyond the starters) and players can get some rest. But this was solely by accident. The Hoyas have one or two wins ahead of them this year. But this statistical likelihood rather than "gelling".
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,312
|
Post by SSHoya on Feb 4, 2023 17:23:44 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 4, 2023 17:49:58 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 4, 2023 18:33:26 GMT -5
The last two years Ewing has relied heavily on transfers. And he loses huge percentages of his roster every offseason. That's not sustainable, but even if you tried, you'd have to be an extremely skilled coach who can quickly get guys to play well together. That's not Ewing.
Also, this is really not an issue. Ewing has been playing the same 7 or so players heavy minutes all year, and it hasn't helped. We are still horrible.
|
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxaphone on Feb 4, 2023 18:52:48 GMT -5
The transfer rankings are based on both quality and quantity. We had seven transfers..........with an average rating of 88.5. Of the seven, there was one four star (Murray), five three star, and one no star (Mozone). We were not top four by any means in average rating.....but by quantity climbed to #4. Providence, by comparison, had an average rating of 89 with five transfers (2 four star, 3 three star). Not sure any of this means too much.........we have had successive years of a "strong recruiting class" that fails to play or perform. |
|
hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,816
|
Post by hoyazeke on Feb 4, 2023 19:46:04 GMT -5
It would be something to consider if the team seemed to be running anything semblance of a offense or defense. I don't think 5yrs of this same team would change the outcome no more than 5-6Ws. A few of the OOC gms and a few of the conference gms.
|
|
Highsmith
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,490
|
Post by Highsmith on Feb 5, 2023 11:14:13 GMT -5
Here's a look at some other teams in similar situations to us this season-
Providence- only returned Jared Bynum....everyone else of consequence on the team is new and we know how good they have been- 17-6 and #17 in the country.
Illinois- returned 4 players, the best of which averaged 5 points last year....they have 7 new players......they are 16-7 and in 3rd place in the Big Ten
Kansas St- returned 2 players......they have 10 new players.....they are 18-5 and the #7 ranked team in the country
West Virginia- returned 5 players, 2 of which didn't play last year.....they have 8 new players and are 14-9, but only 3-7 in conference
Arkansas- returned 2 players......they have 11 new players and are 16-7 overall and 5-5 in the SEC
Missouri- returned 3 players, one of which barely played last year.....they have 10 new players and a new coach (who we likely could have had!).....they are 17-6 overall and 5-5 in the SEC
Even LSU, who we all know was left pretty bare with a new coach and with Nickelberry raiding the cupboard for us is at 12-11 overall, despite being 1-9 in conference. They have 10 new players.
Those are the teams I found that are in a similar situation and that are similar schools to what we are in terms of basketball (or at least what we should be!). I didn't pick the Dukes or drop down to traditionally lower teams like an Oregon State who are bad, but are usually bad historically. Basically, of comparable teams who have had similar player turnover this year and in some cases a new coach as well, we are by far the worst one I found. LSU comes close....but we obviously know why that is.
Please....let's stop all the excuses and reasons for why we are bad. There is only one and that is the coach. I was as fond of Ewing the player as anyone....but as a coach he is historically bad and there is not much else to say than that. There are no excuses for losing 32 of 33 games in your conference (or is that the high major record? I keep losing track). That isn't just a bunch of bad bounces and cold shooting nights. It is a culture of bad basketball and a culture of losing. I'm as surprised as anyone that something like that developed under an all-time great player like Patrick Ewing, but the record speaks for itself.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,451
|
Post by TC on Feb 5, 2023 12:12:30 GMT -5
Looking at our opponent today, a few of those guys have been playing together for at least 3-4 years. Honest question: Should we also be taking into consideration how how little time our guys have had to gel as a team? Should we also be taking into consideration whether the program did that to themselves? Were Ighoefe/Wilson's scholarships renewed (our two three year players)? Was Dante Harris given a fair shot? How hard did we try to retain Collin Holloway? Did any level of investment go into developing / giving time to Kobe Clark, Billingsley, Beard, Mutombo last year during an 0-20 season where you could have tried to develop freshmen? |
|
|
|
Post by gotin2gu4lunch on Feb 5, 2023 17:09:16 GMT -5
Here's a look at some other teams in similar situations to us this season- Providence- only returned Jared Bynum....everyone else of consequence on the team is new and we know how good they have been- 17-6 and #17 in the country. Illinois- returned 4 players, the best of which averaged 5 points last year....they have 7 new players......they are 16-7 and in 3rd place in the Big Ten Kansas St- returned 2 players......they have 10 new players.....they are 18-5 and the #7 ranked team in the country West Virginia- returned 5 players, 2 of which didn't play last year.....they have 8 new players and are 14-9, but only 3-7 in conference Arkansas- returned 2 players......they have 11 new players and are 16-7 overall and 5-5 in the SEC Missouri- returned 3 players, one of which barely played last year.....they have 10 new players and a new coach (who we likely could have had!).....they are 17-6 overall and 5-5 in the SEC Even LSU, who we all know was left pretty bare with a new coach and with Nickelberry raiding the cupboard for us is at 12-11 overall, despite being 1-9 in conference. They have 10 new players. Those are the teams I found that are in a similar situation and that are similar schools to what we are in terms of basketball (or at least what we should be!). I didn't pick the Dukes or drop down to traditionally lower teams like an Oregon State who are bad, but are usually bad historically. Basically, of comparable teams who have had similar player turnover this year and in some cases a new coach as well, we are by far the worst one I found. LSU comes close....but we obviously know why that is. Please....let's stop all the excuses and reasons for why we are bad. There is only one and that is the coach. I was as fond of Ewing the player as anyone....but as a coach he is historically bad and there is not much else to say than that. There are no excuses for losing 32 of 33 games in your conference (or is that the high major record? I keep losing track). That isn't just a bunch of bad bounces and cold shooting nights. It is a culture of bad basketball and a culture of losing. I'm as surprised as anyone that something like that developed under an all-time great player like Patrick Ewing, but the record speaks for itself. Please, let look at the teams with new head coaches. They presumably had to get used to new players and needed time to gel (most likely practice and OOC). If this doesn't scream poor coaching and no program identity, I don't know what does! This offense is still a free flowing pile! He can yell move all he wants, but the offense does not lend its self to movement. You can't focus on a 5man....im sorry was about to break my own rule and criticize a kid. This is ALL on the coach! #TooMuchNBAinHisDNA |
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,212
|
Post by hoyarooter on Feb 6, 2023 20:10:52 GMT -5
Looking at our opponent today, a few of those guys have been playing together for at least 3-4 years. Honest question: Should we also be taking into consideration how how little time our guys have had to gel as a team? We obviously have talent. When I think back to all the teams that have gone all the way, teams like 'Nova, the most outstanding features, that I can remember are cohesiveness, consistency, experience, and pretty much knowing how each other thinks on the court. Can we honestly expect this team to be doing the things that great teams develop over 3-5 years? I think others have mentioned this already but Providence has 7 new players this year. He assessed them at "zero" last summer. He seemed to have been able to coach them up into a team. What would Cooley have done with Ewing's roster? Didn't some rating services assess Ewing's transfer class at #4 in the nation? I bet Cooley would have done better than just one victory in conference. “We have seven new guys,” Cooley said. “Trying to learn who we are and what we are. We’re basically at zero.” Clifton Moore and Noah Locke both have Power 5 experience at three different schools — two seasons at Indiana for Moore, four combined at Florida and Louisville for Locke. Their contributions will be vital. The Friars bet on the upside with three former decorated recruits in Bryce Hopkins (Kentucky), Devin Carter (South Carolina) and Corey Floyd Jr. (Connecticut). Carter was the most productive among that trio last season, averaging 9.0 points and 3.8 rebounds with the Gamecocks. www.providencejournal.com/story/sports/2022/07/24/pc-basketball-season-preview-offseason-analysis-coach-cooley-new-players/10134344002/Providence lost four starters from last year's team. It seems they have managed to "gel" under Cooley. Minaya makes it four starters leaving Providence after its historic season. Nate Watson, Noah Horchler and Al Durham have all exhausted their eligibility. Verbal Commits reported earlier Wednesday reserve guard Matteus Case had entered the transfer portal, making it five total departures for the Friars to date. www.providencejournal.com/story/sports/college/2022/04/06/providence-basketball-justin-minaya-nba-draft-matteus-case-ncaa-transfer-portal/9486273002/www.on3.com/college/providence-friars/basketball/2022/transfers/Hey, we all know that Cooley is the only coach in the conference who is worse than Ewing, right hoyaboya?  |
|
