Georgetown & DePaul

[prhoya]

Aug 17, 2022 15:56:19 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Aug 17, 2022 13:59:31 GMT -5 SDHoya said:

Hey look! There is an open thread for the purpose of discussing all the things you love/detest about Pat, Ronny, Jack, Lee, etc.

Would y'all be so kind as to keep said discussion here, instead of putting it in EVERY SINGLE OTHER THREAD?

Thanks in advance.

I would say the bigger danger is that this board is on the verge of collapse. And thing is that is something the people on here have some control over with their behavior and actions.

We can’t even talk about Kenner. Clown World.

Like the DePaul board you mentioned?

[Omega]

Aug 17, 2022 12:53:47 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Aug 17, 2022 8:27:41 GMT -5 TC said:

The former might not be worse; the latter is where we are - just substitute Thompson for Meyer.

Time really flies by -- we are arguably about to enter year 10 of the sub-mediocrity phase. Really, the only good season in the last nine seasons was 2015 when we were a 5 seed in the NCAA tournament. It's pretty sobering that in the last 9 seasons, we have been at-large quality once, and even that was 7 years ago.

Thank God for the 2005-2013 period and the Final Four, without that, we'd basically be at the Meyer 30 year level already.

But we are not! Next...

[hoyasaxa2003]

Aug 17, 2022 17:27:19 GMT -5 Omega said:

Aug 17, 2022 12:53:47 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Time really flies by -- we are arguably about to enter year 10 of the sub-mediocrity phase. Really, the only good season in the last nine seasons was 2015 when we were a 5 seed in the NCAA tournament. It's pretty sobering that in the last 9 seasons, we have been at-large quality once, and even that was 7 years ago.

Thank God for the 2005-2013 period and the Final Four, without that, we'd basically be at the Meyer 30 year level already.

But we are not! Next...

To correct my previous post (surprised nobody corrected me already), we were a 4 seed in 2015, not a 5 seed. The reason I was confused is because Utah entered the game as a favorite (65%), despite being the 5 seed, and us the 4 seed.

While Georgetown has clearly been in a rut for a long while, I really think things could turn around, and quickly. The BET run was an example of that. The media is chomping at the bit to write the "Georgetown is back" story, but obviously we need to give them fodder for that story, which has been lacking. But, I truly think that one good season could potentially be enough to turn things around. A lot about college sports is momentum (recruits want to play for winning teams), and Georgetown hasn't had any absent the very short period during the 2021 BET leading up to the Colorado game.

Also, we will never be DePaul for a few reasons. First, while DePaul used to be a much better program, they were never at the level Georgetown achieved in the 1980s, and they also lacked something like the 2005-2013 period. In that period, Georgetown was consistently in the top ten, and despite the NCAA upsets, had a really solid set of years, plus the final Four. DePaul hasn't had anything close to that, and has had only 2 NCAA appearances since the Meyer era (and the last one was in 2004). Also, DePaul simply isn't as well known as Georgetown, nor is it nearly as well known as Georgetown for academics.

To me, Georgetown can easily be a competitive program and regain its height as long as it is willing to pay like a top tier program (and as long as the NCAA college basketball landscape doesn't collapse because of realignment, but that's outside our control). Now, whether that'll happen under the current situation is an open question, and recent history would suggest that it may not happen, but there have also been a lot of positive roster changes over the last year, so let's see what happens.

That's the beauty of college sports. Even in trying times, there's always at least some hope. Given last year, I have a lot of reservations, but there's also hope. So that's essentially where I'll be from now to November, at least until the team tells us otherwise. Obviously, I thought Ewing should go last year, but he's here, he's not going anywhere until at least March (and even then unlikely), so hopefully he can take advantage of the new roster we have, and build some momentum with the new roster and staff. As I've said a bunch of times, the best outcome for all involved is for Ewing to find his coaching chops, succeed, and lead Georgetown to another era of success. It may not be likely, but it's clearly the best outcome for all involved, if it did happen.

[hoyarooter]

Aug 17, 2022 13:59:31 GMT -5 SDHoya said:

Hey look! There is an open thread for the purpose of discussing all the things you love/detest about Pat, Ronny, Jack, Lee, etc.

Would y'all be so kind as to keep said discussion here, instead of putting it in EVERY SINGLE OTHER THREAD?

Thanks in advance.

I blame (multiple choice question, take your pick):

A. Climate change
B. The last guy
C. The Democrats

[DFW HOYA]

Three points to the post above:

1. I'm beginning to wonder how much the "Georgetown is back" scenario has legs. The only "media is chomping at the bit" to write about it is the New York press, writers over 60, and the three our four web sites out here that follow this closely. If you're under 35, reading someone proclaim "Georgetown is back" is the college basketball version of the "Texas is back" folks that are a running gag in football circles. Despite paying top dollar for every coach they get, Texas has one top 10 finish in 12 years and a combined Big 12 record of 55-51. Since 2013, Georgetown is 58-103 (.360) in the Big East and not a peep from the authorities of the obvious: this has become acceptable.

2. No, this is not DePaul, but fans under 45 or so have no idea how good DePaul was in its heyday. DePaul finished in the Top 10 seven of nine seasons from 1977-78 to 1986-87. They sold out the Horizon regularly. There's a YouTube recently saluting Reggie Williams' buzzer beater over DePaul in 1987. The Demons were 16-0 at the time and finished 28-3. What happened? They burned out their base in local recruiting, simultaneously wore out the fan bases in the South Side and the northern suburbs, and maintained an attitude that nothing was wrong. The 21-34 year old Chicago fan is no more invested in DePaul basketball than the 21-34 fan is Washington is invested in the Redskins/Commanders. The parallels of these two teams with the Hoyas is apparent.

3. Yes, there's always hope. Maybe Ewing will soar in year six. Maybe he won't and just plans to be here another 20 years, make $8 million a year, and GU will go along. Either way, without sustained success (a seventh place finish in the Big East and getting a 12th seed does not qualify as such), it's just making the rebuild that much longer, and more perilous for a program which is undersupported as it is.

Without stated measures of expected success, men's basketball never falls short.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Aug 17, 2022 20:43:28 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Three points to the post above:

1. I'm beginning to wonder how much the "Georgetown is back" scenario has legs. The only "media is chomping at the bit" to write about it is the New York press, writers over 60, and the three our four web sites out here that follow this closely. If you're under 35, reading someone proclaim "Georgetown is back" is the college basketball version of the "Texas is back" folks that are a running gag in football circles. Despite paying top dollar for every coach they get, Texas has one top 10 finish in 12 years and a combined Big 12 record of 55-51. Since 2013, Georgetown is 58-103 (.360) in the Big East and not a peep from the authorities of the obvious: this has become acceptable.

This is why I think it's crucial for us to have success in the next 5-10 years. Once those folks age out of their jobs, the allure of Georgetown in the media won't be nearly as large, and people who remember the heydey will be senior citizens. Still, it's all about sustained success. When JT3 had things humming, Georgetown got some nice press, we had top-billed games on Saturdays on CBS, etc. and the fans were engaged. While we are a long way from that, if we had another Sweet 16, followed by a Final Four (or better), followed by top 10 type teams for a few years, much of that would come back. I am skeptical that will happen with the current leadership, but, no doubt, we need some new sustained success to keep the program relevant.

[calhoya]

Aug 17, 2022 18:23:54 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Aug 17, 2022 17:27:19 GMT -5 Omega said:

But we are not! Next...

To correct my previous post (surprised nobody corrected me already), we were a 4 seed in 2015, not a 5 seed. The reason I was confused is because Utah entered the game as a favorite (65%), despite being the 5 seed, and us the 4 seed.

While Georgetown has clearly been in a rut for a long while, I really think things could turn around, and quickly. The BET run was an example of that. The media is chomping at the bit to write the "Georgetown is back" story, but obviously we need to give them fodder for that story, which has been lacking. But, I truly think that one good season could potentially be enough to turn things around. A lot about college sports is momentum (recruits want to play for winning teams), and Georgetown hasn't had any absent the very short period during the 2021 BET leading up to the Colorado game.

Also, we will never be DePaul for a few reasons. First, while DePaul used to be a much better program, they were never at the level Georgetown achieved in the 1980s, and they also lacked something like the 2005-2013 period. In that period, Georgetown was consistently in the top ten, and despite the NCAA upsets, had a really solid set of years, plus the final Four. DePaul hasn't had anything close to that, and has had only 2 NCAA appearances since the Meyer era (and the last one was in 2004). Also, DePaul simply isn't as well known as Georgetown, nor is it nearly as well known as Georgetown for academics.

To me, Georgetown can easily be a competitive program and regain its height as long as it is willing to pay like a top tier program (and as long as the NCAA college basketball landscape doesn't collapse because of realignment, but that's outside our control). Now, whether that'll happen under the current situation is an open question, and recent history would suggest that it may not happen, but there have also been a lot of positive roster changes over the last year, so let's see what happens.

That's the beauty of college sports. Even in trying times, there's always at least some hope. Given last year, I have a lot of reservations, but there's also hope. So that's essentially where I'll be from now to November, at least until the team tells us otherwise. Obviously, I thought Ewing should go last year, but he's here, he's not going anywhere until at least March (and even then unlikely), so hopefully he can take advantage of the new roster we have, and build some momentum with the new roster and staff. As I've said a bunch of times, the best outcome for all involved is for Ewing to find his coaching chops, succeed, and lead Georgetown to another era of success. It may not be likely, but it's clearly the best outcome for all involved, if it did happen.

Good post 2003 and sums up the views of many of us I suspect who just want the program to regain its former stature. Ewing did not earn another season but he’s back, changed his staff and recruited what seems to be a more complete team. The man knows the heat is on and not surprisingly he is not running from the challenge. I am certainly not optimistic but as always remain hopeful that this will be the year it turns.

[miracles87]

Aug 17, 2022 20:43:28 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Three points to the post above:

1. I'm beginning to wonder how much the "Georgetown is back" scenario has legs. The only "media is chomping at the bit" to write about it is the New York press, writers over 60, and the three our four web sites out here that follow this closely. If you're under 35, reading someone proclaim "Georgetown is back" is the college basketball version of the "Texas is back" folks that are a running gag in football circles. Despite paying top dollar for every coach they get, Texas has one top 10 finish in 12 years and a combined Big 12 record of 55-51. Since 2013, Georgetown is 58-103 (.360) in the Big East and not a peep from the authorities of the obvious: this has become acceptable.

2. No, this is not DePaul, but fans under 45 or so have no idea how good DePaul was in its heyday. DePaul finished in the Top 10 seven of nine seasons from 1977-78 to 1986-87. They sold out the Horizon regularly. There's a YouTube recently saluting Reggie Williams' buzzer beater over DePaul in 1987. The Demons were 16-0 at the time and finished 28-3. What happened? They burned out their base in local recruiting, simultaneously wore out the fan bases in the South Side and the northern suburbs, and maintained an attitude that nothing was wrong. The 21-34 year old Chicago fan is no more invested in DePaul basketball than the 21-34 fan is Washington is invested in the Redskins/Commanders. The parallels of these two teams with the Hoyas is apparent.

3. Yes, there's always hope. Maybe Ewing will soar in year six. Maybe he won't and just plans to be here another 20 years, make $8 million a year, and GU will go along. Either way, without sustained success (a seventh place finish in the Big East and getting a 12th seed does not qualify as such), it's just making the rebuild that much longer, and more perilous for a program which is undersupported as it is.

Without stated measures of expected success, men's basketball never falls short.

"Since 2013, Georgetown is 58-103 (.360) in the Big East and not a peep from the authorities of the obvious: this has become acceptable."

Georgetown fired John Thompson III in 2017, you can't say there was not a peep from the authorities.

Ewing and Georgetown are in this together to win. Ewing is getting a pass on the transfer mania during his tenure to this point, we shall see if he can right the ship.

[professorhoya]

Aug 17, 2022 17:08:12 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Aug 17, 2022 15:56:19 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

I would say the bigger danger is that this board is on the verge of collapse. And thing is that is something the people on here have some control over with their behavior and actions.

We can’t even talk about Kenner. Clown World.

Like the DePaul board you mentioned?

It's almost there. The board is moving in that direction alot quicker than the program.

[professorhoya]

Aug 17, 2022 18:23:54 GMT -5 @Admin said:

DePaul has never won the national championship. The 1945 NCAA champion was Oklahoma A&M, which defeated NYU. DePaul defeated Rhode Island and Bowling Green in the 1945 NIT. --Admin

Surprised that you don't even know this:

"From its onset and at least into the mid-1950s, the NIT was regarded as the most prestigious showcase for college basketball.[8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18] All-American at Princeton and later NBA champion with the New York Knicks and United States Senator Bill Bradley stated:

In the 1940s, when the NCAA tournament was less than 10 years old, the National Invitation Tournament, a saturnalia held in New York at Madison Square Garden by the Metropolitan Intercollegiate Basketball Association, was the most glamorous of the post-season tournaments and generally had the better teams. The winner of the National Invitation Tournament was regarded as more of a national champion than the actual, titular, national champion, or winner of the NCAA tournament."

— A Sense of Where You Are: Bill Bradley at Princeton[19]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Invitation_Tournament

[professorhoya]

Aug 17, 2022 20:43:28 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Three points to the post above:



What happened? They burned out their base in local recruiting, simultaneously wore out the fan bases in the South Side and the northern suburbs, and maintained an attitude that nothing was wrong. The 21-34 year old Chicago fan is no more invested in DePaul basketball than the 21-34 fan is Washington is invested in the Redskins/Commanders. The parallels of these two teams with the Hoyas is apparent.

That's only half the story, here's the rest of the story:


"Billy asked me to give this a read and weigh in on the 'Joey Meyer debate'

After reading the thread, I can only conclude that every single one of you is right to a certain extent.

I have poured over this topic with great detail over the past 25+ years and I always come to the same conclusions:

1. I can present a compelling argument why Joey Meyer was a good coach who got screwed over by his athetic director and an astounding run of bad luck.

2. I can present a compelling argument why Joey Meyer deserved to be let go and there's a reason he never got another shot at even a mid-level D1 school.

It's honestly one of the oddest dichotomy's you'll ever find and at the end of the day it's likely a solid combination of both that lead to his ultimate demise.

Honestly, I don't know every detail and I'd actually love to sit down with Joey over a few beers someday and get the entire story. There are so many twists, turns, angles and takes that I can'tgo over it all in a single post. I'd be writing for hours.

The cliffnotes are these:

The Bradshaw File

Bill Bradshaw never liked nor wanted Joey Meyer. He was a polar opposite of Meyer from a personality standpoint and Bradshaw was convinced Meyer wasn't the right guy to lead the program. Bradshaw did everything in his power during his tenure to undermine Joey. From the Jeff Tasani case where he hung Joey out to dry and handcuffed his recruiting to the Gay suspension to Nathan's expulsion to ulimately Ronnie Fields inadmission to school, Bradshaw did what he could to NOT lift a finger to help Joey and ensure that eventually Meyer would lose enough games that Bradshaw would finally have his case with university brass to make a change. Those in the know also knew that Bradshaw was set to hire one of his cronie drinking buddies to replace Joey. If Bradshaw had his way in the 80's or early 90's, it would have been Dick Versace. If it happened later, it would be Pat Kennedy. After DePaul beat Kennedy bad in 1992, one DePaul assistant told me after a viewing a shot of Kennedy on the gametape, "by the way, you're looking at the next head coach of DePaul." Ultimately this was a battle Bradshaw would win. As Ray was quoted in 1997 after Joey was fired, "they won. We lost."

The Basketball File

This has been discussed on the Classics Board but there was always something missing with DePaul Basketball with Joey at the healm. Sure, he had some big wins but the common theme of his tenure was underachievement. Save 1986, 1989 and 1995, every team Meyer coached underachieved. Even his signature season ended too abruptly. The 1987 team featured three first-round NBA draft picks plus the nation's best sixth man and lost in ugly fashion in the Sweet 16. Hell, they were extremely lucky to get out of even the second round playing on their home floor.

The 1985 team began the year ranked #1 in the nation yet didn't even win a NCAA tournament game. The 1988 team featured the best backcourt and point guard in the nation and won only a single NCAA game with Joey getting completely befuddled by Lon Kruger and a shooter named Will Scott and KSU in round two. The 1991 team got absolutely embarrassed by Georgia Tech in the first round and the 1992 team let one guy, Sam Crawford of New Mexico St, knock them out of the tournament in the first round at ASU. The 1991 team was a nine seed. The 1992 team was a five seed, ranked 14th at season's endand had Final Four talent yet ZERO tourney wins. You know who told me that team had Final Four talent? Joey. In the hotel lobby in Tempe after a horrific loss to Crawford and the Aggies. That game and season still haunts me. Did you know the 1992 team was 4-0 against teams that went to the elite 8 and 2-0 against teams that went to the Final Four?

You could really make the case, during the majority of the Meyer era, independant DePaul could schedule 20 wins but ultimately, Meyer couldn't get thejob done in the tournament. Too many chances. Too many premature exits - even when it was from the sweet 16. I also never liked the fact that in the Meyer era, it seemed most every player upon completion, wondered privately if they should have gone to adifferent program. Again, there was always something not quite right with the way the team performed under Joey Meyer. Too many times they just had the appearance of being a poorly coached team. Joey was a brilliant X's and O's coach but some questioned whether he had the personality and charisma to inspire young men to achieve greatness. Too many games and seasons ended with people wondering, "man, is Joey getting the job done?"

EDIT: Further prespective: Joey coached 13 seasons. If you take away the three seasons he had Rod Strickland, Joey won ONE NCAA Tournament game. That would be 1 NCAA win in 10 seasons sandwiched around the brilliance of Strickland. (5-3 in NCAA play with Strickland)

The CPL File

I don't blame Joey and DePaul for this at all. He was blackballed because he didn't pay and Illinois did. The CPL coaches used the "DePaul recruited nationally and abandoned the CPL" crap and Teddy Grubbs as an excuse. Bottom line, DePaul wouldn't pay and Joey, although I'm sure no saint when it came to academics, preferred that at least the kid could read before letting him into school. The CPL was a cesspool and really except for Nick Anderson in 1989, what did any of those players achieve during the Meyer era in Champaign or any place else? Yes, DePaul would have benefitted from getting some of these players but at what cost - literally? And by the way- Kenny Battle, Kendall Gill, Lowell Hamilton and Steve Bardo - NOT CPL.

The TV File

Quickly, DePaul's ability to recruit the best players in the nation early in Joey's tenure was that DePaul was the only school in the nation to have all of it's games televised nationally thanks to WGN and our ever present Saturday NBCgames. Needless to say, that advantage was long gone by the 90's . . .

247sports.com/college/depaul/Board/103824/Contents/My-thoughts-on-Joey-Meyer-53571152/

Please do not post an entire thread/article. A link will suffice. --Admin

[prhoya]

Aug 17, 2022 22:36:19 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Aug 17, 2022 17:08:12 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Like the DePaul board you mentioned?

It's almost there. The board is moving in that direction alot quicker than the program.

That 0-21 surpassed DePaul... the program beat the Board...

[professorhoya]

Aug 17, 2022 18:23:54 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Aug 17, 2022 17:27:19 GMT -5 Omega said:

But we are not! Next...

To correct my previous post (surprised nobody corrected me already), we were a 4 seed in 2015, not a 5 seed. The reason I was confused is because Utah entered the game as a favorite (65%), despite being the 5 seed, and us the 4 seed.


Also, we will never be DePaul for a few reasons. First, while DePaul used to be a much better program, they were never at the level Georgetown achieved in the 1980s, and they also lacked something like the 2005-2013 period. In that period, Georgetown was consistently in the top ten, and despite the NCAA upsets, had a really solid set of years, plus the final Four. DePaul hasn't had anything close to that, and has had only 2 NCAA appearances since the Meyer era (and the last one was in 2004). Also, DePaul simply isn't as well known as Georgetown, nor is it nearly as well known as Georgetown for academics.

Reposting as I seem to have deleted my own post when I edited.

Meyer's golden era was the George Mikan era when they won the National Championship in 1945.
Adding this footnote since most people don't seem to know basketball history.
"From its onset and at least into the mid-1950s, the NIT was regarded as the most prestigious showcase for college basketball.[8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18] All-American at Princeton and later NBA champion with the New York Knicks and United States Senator Bill Bradley stated:

In the 1940s, when the NCAA tournament was less than 10 years old, the National Invitation Tournament, a saturnalia held in New York at Madison Square Garden by the Metropolitan Intercollegiate Basketball Association, was the most glamorous of the post-season tournaments and generally had the better teams. The winner of the National Invitation Tournament was regarded as more of a national champion than the actual, titular, national champion, or winner of the NCAA tournament.

— A Sense of Where You Are: Bill Bradley at Princeton[19]"

This parallels John Thompson-Ewing's golden generation culminating in the 1984 National Championship.

[DFW HOYA]

Aug 17, 2022 22:40:52 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Surprised that you don't even know this:


"From its onset and at least into the mid-1950s, the NIT was regarded as the most prestigious showcase for college basketball.All-American at Princeton and later NBA champion with the New York Knicks and United States Senator Bill Bradley stated: "In the 1940s, when the NCAA tournament was less than 10 years old, the National Invitation Tournament, a saturnalia held in New York at Madison Square Garden by the Metropolitan Intercollegiate Basketball Association, was the most glamorous of the post-season tournaments and generally had the better teams. The winner of the National Invitation Tournament was regarded as more of a national champion than the actual, titular, national champion, or winner of the NCAA tournament."

If you were on the East Coast, the NIT was more popular and frankly got a lot more independent teams in than they did in the NCAA, which favored conference champions. St. John's was an NIT favorite to sell tickets in New York, with 12 invitations in the first 13 years. Similarly, NYU was selected three of the four years the NCAA tournament was played in New York from 1943-1946.

Let's look at the entrants to each tournament in 1945. The NCAA was much stronger and more representative than the NIT that season, which had no team west of Chicago and just one non-independent team. DePaul does not recognize the 1945 NIT as a "national" title.

NCAA
Oklahoma A&M, 27-4, Missouri Valley Champion
Oregon, 30-15, Pacific Coast Champion
Kentucky 22-4, SEC Co-Champion
Ohio State, 15-5, Big Nine runner up, Iowa declined bid
Arkansas 17-9, Southwest runner-up, Rice declined bid
Utah: 17-4, Mountain States Conference Champion
NYU 14-7, Independent
Tufts 10-8, Independent, but no idea why they're here

NIT:
DePaul: 21-3, Independent
Rensselear, 13-1, Independent
Muhlenberg, 25-3, Independent
Bowling Green, 24-4, Independent
Rhode Island, 20-5, Independent
St. John's, 21-3 Independent
West Virginia, 12-6, Independent
Tennessee, 18-5, SEC Co-Champion

[professorhoya]

Aug 17, 2022 23:24:09 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Aug 17, 2022 22:40:52 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Surprised that you don't even know this:


"From its onset and at least into the mid-1950s, the NIT was regarded as the most prestigious showcase for college basketball.All-American at Princeton and later NBA champion with the New York Knicks and United States Senator Bill Bradley stated: "In the 1940s, when the NCAA tournament was less than 10 years old, the National Invitation Tournament, a saturnalia held in New York at Madison Square Garden by the Metropolitan Intercollegiate Basketball Association, was the most glamorous of the post-season tournaments and generally had the better teams. The winner of the National Invitation Tournament was regarded as more of a national champion than the actual, titular, national champion, or winner of the NCAA tournament."

If you were on the East Coast, the NIT was more popular and frankly got a lot more independent teams in than they did in the NCAA, which favored conference champions. St. John's was an NIT favorite to sell tickets in New York, with 12 invitations in the first 13 years. Similarly, NYU was selected three of the four years the NCAA tournament was played in New York from 1943-1946.

Let's look at the entrants to each tournament in 1945. The NCAA was much stronger and more representative than the NIT that season, which had no team west of Chicago and just one non-independent team. DePaul does not recognize the 1945 NIT as a "national" title.

NCAA
Oklahoma A&M, 27-4, Missouri Valley Champion
Oregon, 30-15, Pacific Coast Champion
Kentucky 22-4, SEC Co-Champion
Ohio State, 15-5, Big Nine runner up, Iowa declined bid
Arkansas 17-9, Southwest runner-up, Rice declined bid
Utah: 17-4, Mountain States Conference Champion
NYU 14-7, Independent
Tufts 10-8, Independent, but no idea why they're here

NIT:
DePaul: 21-3, Independent
Rensselear, 13-1, Independent
Muhlenberg, 25-3, Independent
Bowling Green, 24-4, Independent
Rhode Island, 20-5, Independent
St. John's, 21-3 Independent
West Virginia, 12-6, Independent
Tennessee, 18-5, SEC Co-Champion

YES, DEPAUL DOES HAVE A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

"“The NCAA tournament wasn’t the big tournament, the NIT was the major tournament of basketball at that time,” said Phelan. “That was actually for the national championship was the NIT tournament.”

“In those days the NCAA tournament was 8 different zones of the country, and they picked the best team from each zone,” said Jack Phelan, a member of DePaul’s 1945 NIT Championship team. “That didn’t mean you had the best teams always going to the tournament because there could be two or three real good teams in the same zone and only one could go.”

The NIT was helped by being played at Madison Square Garden. The tournament was appealing to players because they had a chance to play on a big stage, in front of NBA scouts. The scouts predominantly scouted more east coast teams, so the NIT tournament was a great place to audition for a pro-basketball career. The tournament was a great draw, so much so that the NCAA was forced to schedule their tournament after the NIT to avoid conflict.

The most dominating team of the 40’s was Kentucky, who won NCAA titles ’48 and ’49. But Kentucky chose to and won the NIT title in 1946. In the early 40’s the NIT was the clear favorite, and 1945 is a perfect example of this. #3 ranked DePaul defeated #7 Ohio State, and legendary DePaul men’s basketball coach Ray Meyer was given the option of which tournament to compete in. Without hesitation, with his player’s full agreement, Meyer chose the NIT."
sadurtime.wordpress.com/yes-depaul-does-have-a-national-championship/

[TC]

Aug 17, 2022 21:23:17 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Good post 2003 and sums up the views of many of us I suspect who just want the program to regain its former stature. Ewing did not earn another season but he’s back, changed his staff and recruited what seems to be a more complete team. The man knows the heat is on and not surprisingly he is not running from the challenge. I am certainly not optimistic but as always remain hopeful that this will be the year it turns.

Except "the heat" is not on. Did the administration provide any comment on what expectations are? Did they lay out what Georgetown basketball should be, or did they spend the last year dodging and ducking any comment? There's no standards of success here - if Ewing wins 5 Big East games this year, everyone chalks that up as an improvement. If no one on the team graduates, if we hit the APR red line (which the program probably does due to the last couple of years), nothing changes. What gets measured gets done, and if you don't care about any of the yard sticks or metrics - and none of the fans or administration do, that's not a formula for success. The guiding purpose of this organization is to employ the son of the guy who was Coach 26 years ago - that's why this Coach was hired, why he was extended, and that's why he continues to have a job.

There's no heat here, there's a contract that needs to run it's course, I don't understand why people are pretending that there is urgency or a hot seat.

Also :

DePaul, last 3 years - 11 BE wins
Georgetown, last 3 years - 12 BE wins

We Are Georgetown = We Are DePaul

[bigskyhoya]

Aug 18, 2022 5:58:56 GMT -5 TC said:

Aug 17, 2022 21:23:17 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Good post 2003 and sums up the views of many of us I suspect who just want the program to regain its former stature. Ewing did not earn another season but he’s back, changed his staff and recruited what seems to be a more complete team. The man knows the heat is on and not surprisingly he is not running from the challenge. I am certainly not optimistic but as always remain hopeful that this will be the year it turns.

Except "the heat" is not on. Did the administration provide any comment on what expectations are? Did they lay out what Georgetown basketball should be, or did they spend the last year dodging and ducking any comment? There's no standards of success here - if Ewing wins 5 Big East games this year, everyone chalks that up as an improvement. If no one on the team graduates, if we hit the APR red line (which the program probably does due to the last couple of years), nothing changes. What gets measured gets done, and if you don't care about any of the yard sticks or metrics - and none of the fans or administration do, that's not a formula for success. The guiding purpose of this organization is to employ the son of the guy who was Coach 26 years ago - that's why this Coach was hired, why he was extended, and that's why he continues to have a job.

There's no heat here, there's a contract that needs to run it's course, I don't understand why people are pretending that there is urgency or a hot seat.

Also :

DePaul, last 3 years - 11 BE wins
Georgetown, last 3 years - 12 BE wins

We Are Georgetown = We Are DePaul

Well, you are half right, which is an improvement. Of course, Ewing should have been fired after last year and he wasn't, for reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum. But if Ewing wants to remain coach beyond the current extension, the heat is on. If you were correct, III would still be the coach.

[TC]

Aug 18, 2022 14:05:09 GMT -5 Filo said:

I get what you are saying and you have a point, although I don't really agree. It is not "optimism policing" - it's just frustration that the same exact things are being said over and over, and they have taken over not just this thread but all threads. But, whatever, you all just keep it up. I am sure the incessant posting will lead to PE's firing soon. Later.

It absolutely is optimism policing. The same complaints get used if someone disagrees with Marvel Allen's ranking, or people saying that Aminu Mohammed will go pro (spoiler alert: he did), or that we will have a weak schedule to coast after 0-20 (spoiler alert : we do), or the argument that caring about any academic standard is virtue signaling somehow. Express anything other than the party line, and people around here complain.

I read other message boards and I just don't get it. If you go to a Pittsburgh Pirates message board, do you think people throw a fit or call it repetitive if people complain about how the Nuttings are running the franchise into the ground? Do you think it's verboten to complain about ownership on an Oakland A's or NY Knicks board? Is Tony La Russo some sort of third rail on a White Sox message board? All of those fanbases get that nothing changes until ownership/management changes or makes investments. The problems with this program are systemic and you aren't going to solve them by hiring a few new assistants.

We root for a horribly run program coming off of 0-20, the idea that everyone should rally around the flag and that complaints are only valid one day after a loss is nuts.

[guru]

Aug 18, 2022 15:53:32 GMT -5 TC said:

Aug 18, 2022 14:05:09 GMT -5 Filo said:

I get what you are saying and you have a point, although I don't really agree. It is not "optimism policing" - it's just frustration that the same exact things are being said over and over, and they have taken over not just this thread but all threads. But, whatever, you all just keep it up. I am sure the incessant posting will lead to PE's firing soon. Later.

It absolutely is optimism policing. The same complaints get used if someone disagrees with Marvel Allen's ranking, or people saying that Aminu Mohammed will go pro (spoiler alert: he did), or that we will have a weak schedule to coast after 0-20 (spoiler alert : we do), or the argument that caring about any academic standard is virtue signaling somehow. Express anything other than the party line, and people around here complain.

I read other message boards and I just don't get it. If you go to a Pittsburgh Pirates message board, do you think people throw a fit or call it repetitive if people complain about how the Nuttings are running the franchise into the ground? Do you think it's verboten to complain about ownership on an Oakland A's or NY Knicks board? Is Tony La Russo some sort of third rail on a White Sox message board? All of those fanbases get that nothing changes until ownership/management changes or makes investments. The problems with this program are systemic and you aren't going to solve them by hiring a few new assistants.

We root for a horribly run program coming off of 0-20, the idea that everyone should rally around the flag and that complaints are only valid one day after a loss is nuts.

It is absolutely freaking amazing how the same set of posters bounce around in their echo chambers on every thread about the same topic. At least this thread seems like it's the proper place for it. But my God, how does it not get old for these people?

Their objective seems to be to constantly remind everyone else of the horrible state of the program, and the wretchedness of the head coach. Just about any post that doesn't acknowledge these truisms, no matter how far afield its subject matter, is responded to with the same wailing from this same, predictable lot.

For the record, I agree with these time-wasters that the program currently is horribly run, and that our head coach has proven himself not up to the task of maintaining a consistently winning team. I just don't feel the need to post that same opinion ALL THE TIME.

The program is where it is. The season is approaching. The odds are pretty good that we will be terrible again. But you know what's definitely not going to change anything? Posting the same s--t over and over and over on a message board.

I frankly don't give a rat's behind what you've seen on a Pittsburgh Pirates message board, or the A's or the Knicks, and in fact this place would be a lot more tolerable if these posters just take their act there. The constant litany of the same complaints about the Georgetown program would do as much good on a Pirates board as they do here. We get it. We stink. But given where we are in August of 2022, a few weeks from the start of the new season, some of us will still root for things to turn around. And yes, we know they probably won't.

[Omega]

The issue is they have already lost, all their crying and belly aching isn't changing a thing so they doubling down.

As for me, I'm expecting a very good season...