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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jun 1, 2022 7:39:15 GMT -5
Good kid, but with GU only having a couple open slots for next season, do not see the Hoyas making a real push for him with limited space. Considering the last half decade with the Hoyas, and the direction of college basketball generally, I don’t think we’ll just have a couple of spots open for 2023. hm Agree with this 100%. We average well over a couple departures a year. You've got to recruit like you have your graduating seniors spots plus 2 every year or you will get left with your pants around your ankles and another class like the Holloway, Clark, Harris class. That can't happen. Maybe we are looking at it and just plan on recruiting the transfer wire each year? With 8 incoming this year, it is going to be really hard for me to see everybody on the roster being happy about things at year end. It would be foolish to think there won't be a couple. |
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Jun 1, 2022 9:05:24 GMT -5
Considering the last half decade with the Hoyas, and the direction of college basketball generally, I don’t think we’ll just have a couple of spots open for 2023. hm Agree with this 100%. We average well over a couple departures a year. You've got to recruit like you have your graduating seniors spots plus 2 every year or you will get left with your pants around your ankles and another class like the Holloway, Clark, Harris class. That can't happen. Maybe we are looking at it and just plan on recruiting the transfer wire each year? With 8 incoming this year, it is going to be really hard for me to see everybody on the roster being happy about things at year end. It would be foolish to think there won't be a couple. You say that like having your pants around your ankles is a bad thing. |
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617hoya
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Post by 617hoya on Jun 1, 2022 9:10:59 GMT -5
Good kid, but with GU only having a couple open slots for next season, do not see the Hoyas making a real push for him with limited space. Considering the last half decade with the Hoyas, and the direction of college basketball generally, I don’t think we’ll just have a couple of spots open for 2023. hm I’m talking spots to fill with *freshmen*. We have 10 newcomers this year and 8 are transfers. Only 2 are freshmen. That is going to become the norm. The majority of newcomers next year will be transfers too. This is the new era of CBB that is upon us. We will likely only have 1-2 freshmen on next year’s team. |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 1, 2022 10:23:48 GMT -5
We have 10 newcomers this year and 8 are transfers. Only 2 are freshmen. That is going to become the norm. The majority of newcomers next year will be transfers too. This is the new era of CBB that is upon us. We will likely only have 1-2 freshmen on next year’s team. No, it's not the norm. It's only the norm for programs that are not stable and/or those who don't see academic progress as a priority. How many outbound transfers this season at Kansas? None. Villanova? One. Creighton? One. Gonzaga? One. Duke? Two. |
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617hoya
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Post by 617hoya on Jun 1, 2022 10:26:35 GMT -5
We have 10 newcomers this year and 8 are transfers. Only 2 are freshmen. That is going to become the norm. The majority of newcomers next year will be transfers too. This is the new era of CBB that is upon us. We will likely only have 1-2 freshmen on next year’s team. No, it's not the norm. It's only the norm for programs that are not stable and/or those who don't see academic progress as a priority. How many outbound transfers this season at Kansas? None. Villanova? One. Creighton? One. Gonzaga? One. Duke? Two. I see you’ve cherrypicked the most elite programs in the country, with the exception of Creighton, who will be an elite team this year. Interesting. When you get over whining about the whole “academic progress” thing, you’ll start to feel better. That’s not a top priority of any of the high major schools in this day and age. When you accept that’s the new norm, I think you’ll find you can sleep better at night. |
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Jun 1, 2022 10:59:44 GMT -5
No, it's not the norm. It's only the norm for programs that are not stable and/or those who don't see academic progress as a priority. How many outbound transfers this season at Kansas? None. Villanova? One. Creighton? One. Gonzaga? One. Duke? Two. I see you’ve cherrypicked the most elite programs in the country, with the exception of Creighton, who will be an elite team this year. Interesting. When you get over whining about the whole “academic progress” thing, you’ll start to feel better. That’s not a top priority of any of the high major schools in this day and age. When you accept that’s the new norm, I think you’ll find you can sleep better at night. Are you seriously arguing that an 0-20 team does not have a bigger transfer problem than a successful team? |
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617hoya
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Post by 617hoya on Jun 1, 2022 11:02:05 GMT -5
I see you’ve cherrypicked the most elite programs in the country, with the exception of Creighton, who will be an elite team this year. Interesting. When you get over whining about the whole “academic progress” thing, you’ll start to feel better. That’s not a top priority of any of the high major schools in this day and age. When you accept that’s the new norm, I think you’ll find you can sleep better at night. Are you seriously arguing that an 0-20 team does not have a bigger transfer problem than a successful team? I am saying that the level of roster attrition across high major CBB is closer to what Georgetown has seen under Ewing than it is the top programs in the country. Anyways, in typical HT fashion, my point is becoming distilled with debate on a different topic. Point is, Kaiser is being prioritized harder by other schools, and with expected limited roster space for freshmen next season again, it’s unlikely Kaiser ends up here as we are prioritizing others first for those 1-2 spots. Fin. |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 1, 2022 11:40:49 GMT -5
When you get over whining about the whole “academic progress” thing, you’ll start to feel better. That’s not a top priority of any of the high major schools in this day and age. When you accept that’s the new norm, I think you’ll find you can sleep better at night. Agree to disagree. It may not be a top priority at Auburn or Texas A&M or Oregon but, eventually, inattention to academics will come back and bite this program because it is one of the foundations to its institutional support. John Thompson knew this as well as anyone--he wasn't recruiting kids from Landon or Bronx Science, but he understood that academic progress was 1) a means to maintain its support among the faculty and administration, 2) a means of program stability each succeeding year, and 3) a means of good PR/recruiting when recruits were choosing among comparable offers. You may not think #2 or #3 matters in 2022, but #1 still does. Football has tremendous latitude at Teas A&M because, with the exception of the Corps of Cadets, no organization at that school is more central to its identity, its admissions, and its fundraising. Players can roll in and out of College Station, some get arrested, some get dismissed for bad conduct, but football rolls along. That's not the model at Georgetown. There's very little that the university president at Auburn or Oregon can do to fix a sport without putting his job in immediate danger. At Georgetown, one call, just one call, could impact basketball overnight if it was determined that Ewing and the basketball office were off the rails. That's a call from Jack DeGioia to Charlie Deacon instructing him that men's basketball will now go through the standard admissions process for student-athletes. The sounds of that emergency brake would be heard across college basketball, and GU wouldn't fall off the map in admissions or fundraising. Personal friendships and loyalty preclude that call, but only if the program is upholding its expectations set with the President's Office. What passes for the "new norm" at SEC schools does not pass at Georgetown. |
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617hoya
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Post by 617hoya on Jun 1, 2022 11:52:36 GMT -5
When you get over whining about the whole “academic progress” thing, you’ll start to feel better. That’s not a top priority of any of the high major schools in this day and age. When you accept that’s the new norm, I think you’ll find you can sleep better at night. Agree to disagree. It may not be a top priority at Auburn or Texas A&M or Oregon but, eventually, inattention to academics will come back and bite this program because it is one of the foundations to its institutional support. John Thompson knew this as well as anyone--he wasn't recruiting kids from Landon or Bronx Science, but he understood that academic progress was 1) a means to maintain its support among the faculty and administration, 2) a means of program stability each succeeding year, and 3) a means of good PR/recruiting when recruits were choosing among comparable offers. You may not think #2 or #3 matters in 2022, but #1 still does. Football has tremendous latitude at Teas A&M because, with the exception of the Corps of Cadets, no organization at that school is more central to its identity, its admissions, and its fundraising. Players can roll in and out of College Station, some get arrested, some get dismissed for bad conduct, but football rolls along. That's not the model at Georgetown. There's very little that the university president at Auburn or Oregon can do to fix a sport without putting his job in immediate danger. At Georgetown, one call, just one call, could impact basketball overnight if it was determined that Ewing and the basketball office were off the rails. That's a call from Jack DeGioia to Charlie Deacon instructing him that men's basketball will now go through the standard admissions process for student-athletes. The sounds of that emergency brake would be heard across college basketball, and GU wouldn't fall off the map in admissions or fundraising. Personal friendships and loyalty preclude that call, but only if the program is upholding its expectations set with the President's Office. What passes for the "new norm" at SEC schools does not pass at Georgetown. That call from Jack to Charlie would never happen because Jack would never do anything to cross Patrick or interfere with him. If you know the inner workings of the university like you act like you do, you’d know that too. This isn’t just an SEC thing, this is a high major thing. Same can be said for BE, Pac 12, Big 10, Big 12, etc. And it’s not college football only. |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 1, 2022 12:14:29 GMT -5
That call from Jack to Charlie would never happen because Jack would never do anything to cross Patrick or interfere with him. If you know the inner workings of the university like you act like you do, you’d know that too. I do not presume to know the inner workings of GU. That said, Jack may choose not to make changes, but don't assume he can't. He's made changes at every level of the University over 22 years, and if there becomes an material issue in men's basketball which affects the University as a whole, he'll act. The idea you suggest that he "Jack would never do anything to cross Patrick" is foolish. He fired John Thompson's son, if you recall. |
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617hoya
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Post by 617hoya on Jun 1, 2022 12:18:11 GMT -5
That call from Jack to Charlie would never happen because Jack would never do anything to cross Patrick or interfere with him. If you know the inner workings of the university like you act like you do, you’d know that too. I do not presume to know the inner workings of GU. That said, Jack may choose not to make changes, but don't assume he can't. He's made changes at every level of the University over 22 years, and if there becomes an material issue in men's basketball which affects the University as a whole, he'll act. The idea you suggest that he "Jack would never do anything to cross Patrick" is foolish. He fired John Thompson's son, if you recall. Oh, the president who shed tears when he had to inform JT3 the board decided to make a move? A move that wasn’t stopped by III’s own father? You make Jack out to be a much stronger-willed leader than he is. He’s a good man, but when it comes to the basketball program, he’s a fanboy who doesn’t want to upset the figurehead(s) of the program. |
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 1, 2022 12:18:51 GMT -5
Agree to disagree. It may not be a top priority at Auburn or Texas A&M or Oregon but, eventually, inattention to academics will come back and bite this program because it is one of the foundations to its institutional support. John Thompson knew this as well as anyone--he wasn't recruiting kids from Landon or Bronx Science, but he understood that academic progress was 1) a means to maintain its support among the faculty and administration, 2) a means of program stability each succeeding year, and 3) a means of good PR/recruiting when recruits were choosing among comparable offers. You may not think #2 or #3 matters in 2022, but #1 still does. Football has tremendous latitude at Teas A&M because, with the exception of the Corps of Cadets, no organization at that school is more central to its identity, its admissions, and its fundraising. Players can roll in and out of College Station, some get arrested, some get dismissed for bad conduct, but football rolls along. That's not the model at Georgetown. There's very little that the university president at Auburn or Oregon can do to fix a sport without putting his job in immediate danger. At Georgetown, one call, just one call, could impact basketball overnight if it was determined that Ewing and the basketball office were off the rails. That's a call from Jack DeGioia to Charlie Deacon instructing him that men's basketball will now go through the standard admissions process for student-athletes. The sounds of that emergency brake would be heard across college basketball, and GU wouldn't fall off the map in admissions or fundraising. Personal friendships and loyalty preclude that call, but only if the program is upholding its expectations set with the President's Office. What passes for the "new norm" at SEC schools does not pass at Georgetown. That call from Jack to Charlie would never happen because Jack would never do anything to cross Patrick or interfere with him. If you know the inner workings of the university like you act like you do, you’d know that too. This isn’t just an SEC thing, this is a high major thing. Same can be said for BE, Pac 12, Big 10, Big 12, etc. And it’s not college football only. There's the problem right there: Sixty-five year old Prez calling an 80-year old Admissions Director about the admissions for a basketball team coached by a 59-year old. All leading Hoya Basketball into the 21st Century!!  PS I think DFW is being too modest. I believe he knows more about the "inner workings" of Georgetown than most of us. |
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Post by jydhoya on Jun 1, 2022 15:40:20 GMT -5
No, it's not the norm. It's only the norm for programs that are not stable and/or those who don't see academic progress as a priority. How many outbound transfers this season at Kansas? None. Villanova? One. Creighton? One. Gonzaga? One. Duke? Two. I see you’ve cherrypicked the most elite programs in the country, with the exception of Creighton, who will be an elite team this year. Interesting. When you get over whining about the whole “academic progress” thing, you’ll start to feel better. That’s not a top priority of any of the high major schools in this day and age. When you accept that’s the new norm, I think you’ll find you can sleep better at night. Is there a way to move this to another thread? I don't want to clog up Kaiser, but i feel like it's a good/interesting conversation.
A fundamental flaw with Ewing's approach to last season was his failure to adjust quickly to the changed landscape that the Transfer Portal was creating.
Based on min distribution during the first ~10 games, it appears he went into the season with a game plan to play Freshman approx 40-50% of the minutes.
By contrast, in the Kansas-UNC final, Freshman were on the court for a combined 3 minutes out of the 400 total player minutes (0.75%), and they scored 0 points out of the 141 total points scored.
In the Final 4, Kansas + UNC + Villanova freshman played a combined 6 minutes out of their teams' 600 total player minutes (1.00%) and they scored 0 points of their teams' 227 total points scored. Duke was the only team to have Freshman play meaningful minutes and score meaningful points thanks to Banchero, Keels & Griffin. Same held true for the Elite 8 - outside of Duke, there was very very very little contribution from Freshman.
Ewing's obviously completely reversed course/strategy for the 2022-23 season, which is leading to a massive roster overhaul. I think we'll be a much better team as a result (hard not to improve), but agree that we don't want to see 10 out of 12 players turnover every year. Realistically, for most teams outside of the top-10 but in the top ~150, I'd (wild) guess there'll be an average of 3-4 non-"Senior" (sort of dubious name now with super-Seniors) departures per year in the new environment once first-time waivers/NIL ROI/etc normalize, which if combined with a roster avg of 2-3 players whose eligibility expires will mean an avg of a ~50% roster overhaul each year. Not my cup of tea, but i think the reality.
If (gigantic "if") Ewing can run a program with 50% avg annual overhaul that consistently makes the NCAA tourney, I think he'll be in place for a long, long time (much to the dismay of many). If he doesn't, then he'll be out next year (or maybe the following, if next year is a strong NIT team) and DeGioia will replace him with someone who can do the aforementioned. Given the fact that the most influential (or at least those that will be over the next 10 years) alumni demographic right now are those that attended the school during the 1980-1996 heyday of the program, I'd be shocked if DeGioia would effectively "pull the plug" on the program by requiring players to go through the standard student-athlete admissions process. He'll "pull the plug" on Ewing before he "pulls the plug" on the program. That said, I only have tangential knowledge of the inner workings so defer to others with more knowledge.
Anyways, again, an interesting discussion albeit not what Kaiser and/or Kaiser-fans are likely looking for when they come to this thread:)
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Post by bigelephant on Jun 1, 2022 18:48:18 GMT -5
As you say, a very interesting discussion. I think Ewing will be out if things don't improve in three or four years.I give him that time merely because of the fact that he Ewing.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Jun 1, 2022 19:16:14 GMT -5
When you get over whining about the whole “academic progress” thing, you’ll start to feel better. That’s not a top priority of any of the high major schools in this day and age. When you accept that’s the new norm, I think you’ll find you can sleep better at night. Agree to disagree. It may not be a top priority at Auburn or Texas A&M or Oregon but, eventually, inattention to academics will come back and bite this program because it is one of the foundations to its institutional support. John Thompson knew this as well as anyone--he wasn't recruiting kids from Landon or Bronx Science, but he understood that academic progress was 1) a means to maintain its support among the faculty and administration, 2) a means of program stability each succeeding year, and 3) a means of good PR/recruiting when recruits were choosing among comparable offers. You may not think #2 or #3 matters in 2022, but #1 still does. Football has tremendous latitude at Teas A&M because, with the exception of the Corps of Cadets, no organization at that school is more central to its identity, its admissions, and its fundraising. Players can roll in and out of College Station, some get arrested, some get dismissed for bad conduct, but football rolls along. That's not the model at Georgetown. There's very little that the university president at Auburn or Oregon can do to fix a sport without putting his job in immediate danger. At Georgetown, one call, just one call, could impact basketball overnight if it was determined that Ewing and the basketball office were off the rails. That's a call from Jack DeGioia to Charlie Deacon instructing him that men's basketball will now go through the standard admissions process for student-athletes. The sounds of that emergency brake would be heard across college basketball, and GU wouldn't fall off the map in admissions or fundraising. Personal friendships and loyalty preclude that call, but only if the program is upholding its expectations set with the President's Office. What passes for the "new norm" at SEC schools does not pass at Georgetown. I used to feel the same way, but I'm not sure "inattention to academics" isn't becoming a staple everywhere these days, even at what used to be the best schools. And that has nothing to do with the sports programs. |
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C86
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Post by C86 on Jun 1, 2022 19:30:38 GMT -5
“There's the problem right there: Sixty-five year old Prez calling an 80-year old Admissions Director about the admissions for a basketball team coached by a 59-year old. All leading Hoya Basketball into the 21st Century!! ” SSHoya, you left out an important fact: none of whom have ever worked at another university! |
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jun 1, 2022 22:17:22 GMT -5
“There's the problem right there: Sixty-five year old Prez calling an 80-year old Admissions Director about the admissions for a basketball team coached by a 59-year old. All leading Hoya Basketball into the 21st Century!! ” SSHoya, you left out an important fact: none of whom have ever worked at another university! Just speaks to the fact that a coach who goes 0-20 is supported. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Jun 2, 2022 10:15:38 GMT -5
As you say, a very interesting discussion. I think Ewing will be out if things don't improve in three or four years.I give him that time merely because of the fact that he Ewing. If you let the worst coach in the history of your program have 3-4 more years coming off of a 0-20 because he's a celebrity you don't have a program. |
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