wsdhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by wsdhoya on May 26, 2022 19:21:16 GMT -5
I just seriously struggle to see how knowledgeable, or even casual college basketball fans put more stock in that than actual statistical and visual evaluation over a two year period. Mind boggling. You are making some very poor assumptions I’m not trying to be confrontational at all, but what assumptions do you believe I am making?
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bills
Century (over 100 posts)
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Member is Online
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Post by bills on May 26, 2022 19:49:07 GMT -5
I have probably been attending Georgetown basketball games before you were born so I hope I qualify as a casual fan. You have your interpretation of winning the MOP award and I have mine. As a casual fan I have watched two awards for MOP at the NCAA tournament go to a player on the team that lost the championship team.
As a casual fan I don’t know enough to discount the professionals who make those awards and recognize how much more insightful you are. The one thing it appears we can agree on is your post is mind boggling.
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Omega
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by Omega on May 26, 2022 22:04:13 GMT -5
I really don't want to pile on Dante because I'm not in the business of personal attacks on a player, so please note that he's a great Hoya these are strictly basketball observations. In this magical 4 game run that so many of you are saying is more important than two entire seasons, it's worth noting that he didn't even play that well across each game. In the championship game, Dante was 0-5 from 3, shooting 4-14 overall for 10 points. He did grab an impressive 8 boards and a solid 5 assists. He played a great game against Seton Hall shooting 5-6 and dropping 15, but had only 1 assist and 2 turnovers. He also played very solidly against a shellshocked Villanova team missing its starting PG and leader. In the first round, though he was 2-10 from the field, scoring just 4 points and having only 2 assists. This four game stretch everyone obsesses over wasn't even four good games. It was two good games, one subpar one, and one awful one. Yes a championship is more important.
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Post by hoyavafan1 on May 26, 2022 23:40:33 GMT -5
I really don't want to pile on Dante because I'm not in the business of personal attacks on a player, so please note that he's a great Hoya these are strictly basketball observations. In this magical 4 game run that so many of you are saying is more important than two entire seasons, it's worth noting that he didn't even play that well across each game. In the championship game, Dante was 0-5 from 3, shooting 4-14 overall for 10 points. He did grab an impressive 8 boards and a solid 5 assists. He played a great game against Seton Hall shooting 5-6 and dropping 15, but had only 1 assist and 2 turnovers. He also played very solidly against a shellshocked Villanova team missing its starting PG and leader. In the first round, though he was 2-10 from the field, scoring just 4 points and having only 2 assists. This four game stretch everyone obsesses over wasn't even four good games. It was two good games, one subpar one, and one awful one. And it was a group of total incompetents who awarded him the MOP trophy for two good games, one subpar one, and one awful one. If you bring this terrific analysis to their attention, they will likely strip him of that award and have you designate future winners of the MOP. I’m just curious. Who would you have picked as your MOP?
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,997
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Post by kghoya on May 27, 2022 0:52:23 GMT -5
And it was a group of total incompetents who awarded him the MOP trophy for two good games, one subpar one, and one awful one. If you bring this terrific analysis to their attention, they will likely strip him of that award and have you designate future winners of the MOP. I’m just curious. Who would you have picked as your MOP? Blair. No question
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cfs
Member
Posts: 6
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Post by cfs on May 30, 2022 15:33:40 GMT -5
You guys are forgetting Ezewiro. Ewing wants a physical present down low in the post. I like your 4th line up. I like Anglin to push for early minutes.
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cfs
Member
Posts: 6
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Post by cfs on May 30, 2022 15:37:30 GMT -5
POINT GUARD: (1) Dante Harris (2) Denver Anglin The 1 is DANTE HARRIS's job. You hope that the efficiency improves but even if it doesn't, a drop in usage given better teammates should make it at least look a little better. He needs to embrace a role and become a floor general out there. If he dos that and there's any improvement in the jumpshot, he will be a real quality player. As for the defense, it needs to return to Freshman Dante - where he posted a 1.9 DBPM (dropped to -0.2 this past year). I assume this will improve with better health and a decreased workload on the offensive end. DENVER ANGLIN is the back-up here for me. I see Primo more as a gunner 2 in the mold of a young Jahvon Blair and Anglin has the potential to be a steady force. I have high hopes for him being ready to contribute as the jumper is ready made and he's spent his time in high school and AAU playing with a very high level of talent. The body looks ready from day 1 too. If he gets buried on account of Ewing's desperation, I will be disappointed. SHOOTING GUARD: (1) Jay Heath (2) Primo Spears JAY HEATH is better than you guys think. He's been efficient (True shooting % better than 50% all three years). He's a competent shooter. He's an improved defender (second in DBPM on Arizona St last year) which isn't surprising for a guard coached by a Hurley. And he's displayed all of this playing at a high level. If he gets a waiver, he's on the court. For me, PRIMO SPEARS is the back-up although Anglin could slot to the 2 as well. His role should be as a gunner. He is pretty advanced as an isolation scorer and I think he can be a willing passer but he is a long way from being as reliable as Heath would be at this level. And the defensive numbers are pretty bad - he had the worst DBPM of anybody in Duquesne's rotation - but that may be a result of him taking breaks on D as he was asked to do so much on O. SMALL FORWARD: (1) Brandon Murray (2) Wayne Bristol OR Jordan Riley So there are going to be three guard lineups almost exclusively, I'd bet, due to the personnel. And BRANDON MURRAY is going to be on the court more than anyone else. Don't think anybody on this board needs to be brought up on Murray. An elite defender that will guard the best guy in the gym. A competent volume scorer at every level he's played at as well, although he showed he didn't need to be featured at LSU. IMO, you're best player. As his back up, I put WAYNE BRISTOL or JORDAN RILEY. Quite simply, you cannot play 13 guys and some of these guys are going to have to beat each other out for time. Similarly to Spears and Anglin tussling for combo guard minutes, these two will be fighting to be depth wingers. In Bristol, you get a guy that hasn't really played in three years but when he did play, he showed he had some size (6-6) and an ability to shoot from the perimeter. The defensive metrics aren't great but no one's were on Nickleberry's Howard teams. But the body and make up is there for him to be a competent defender. In Riley, you have the biggest boom or bust guy on the team. I'd love to see him given his shot because if it does click, it's an NBA profile. But in the limited time he saw last year he was lost defensively. I wouldn't look too much into him staying as him being guaranteed a role. He got hurt and GTown stuck by him - there wouldn't have been much of a market for him in the portal. POWER FORWARD: (1) Akok Akok (2) Bryson Mozone (3) D'Ante Bass If AKOK AKOK is healthy, this team is good. He's a monster defensively that solves a lot of the problems by accident. He can rim run and shoot the three a bit. He's pretty much if you put Chudier in a 6-10 lengthy body and gave him a block % of 8. It's elite. UConn was pretty damn good when he was on the floor but the biggest concern is he's only played more than 20 minutes 3 times since the achilles. In BRYSON MOZONE, you probably are getting a more athletic, tougher Collin. He was pretty efficient last year, showed some ability to play on the block, and the three point shot is reliable. He'll provide valuable depth and size where Akok's workload may be a question. D'ANTE BASS is a redshirt candidate in my opinion. CENTER: (1) Qudus Wahab (2) Ryan Mutombo OR Bradley Ezewiro QUDUS WAHAB is going to get the lion's share of minutes as he should. The 2021 version of him would've been your best player last year. The Colorado game has soiled some thoughts on his defense. He was fine - 3rd in blocks in Big East, 6th in defensive rebounds, a 1.9 DBPM (aided by the ineptitude of his backups). And he will benefit greatly from playing next to AKok. As for the backup, I think it's a toss up. RYAN MUTOMBO has the potential but he needs to dominate the weight room and get stronger and most importantly, more agile. Q made a big jump from year 1 to year 2. Need a similar jump from Ryan. BRADLEY EZEWIRO doesn't have any tape so I don't really know what he is but I'm not ready to say he isn't above Ryan. If you dropped Ryan in that LSU frontcourt, he wouldn't have played either. But nonetheless, I doubt both these guys get worked into the rotation so it's one or the other and AKok can cover at the 5 in small ball lineups as well. I wouldn't be against a Mutombo redshirt but there is no way that's happening. It's a good team. Some good players are going to be cut out of the rotation. That's a sign of healthy competition. Now you just have to manage the egos and make it work. Primo will run this team. He was not brought in to play back up PG. Bigger more athletic guard who can defend and finish much better in traffic than Harris.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,488
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Post by hoyaboya on May 31, 2022 10:39:15 GMT -5
Murray was a top 100 recruit out of high school, and that athleticism was evident. He is also a very smart player - to his own detriment at times. Against Tennessee, he became openly frustrated with his teammates, and he needs to do a better job controlling his body language. At one point, Murray motioned with annoyance that his teammate took a three-pointer while double-covered when an extra pass would have given Murray an open look in the corner. While he was right, it’s not a good look to be frustrated when your teammate hits the contested look instead of passing to you. This was also apparent on defense, where he would openly show annoyance when he teammates missed assignments. www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2022/5/29/23145160/transfer-profile-brandon-murray-sec-all-freshman-star
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
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Post by hoya9797 on May 31, 2022 11:58:12 GMT -5
Murray was a top 100 recruit out of high school, and that athleticism was evident. He is also a very smart player - to his own detriment at times. Against Tennessee, he became openly frustrated with his teammates, and he needs to do a better job controlling his body language. At one point, Murray motioned with annoyance that his teammate took a three-pointer while double-covered when an extra pass would have given Murray an open look in the corner. While he was right, it’s not a good look to be frustrated when your teammate hits the contested look instead of passing to you. This was also apparent on defense, where he would openly show annoyance when he teammates missed assignments. www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2022/5/29/23145160/transfer-profile-brandon-murray-sec-all-freshman-starHe’s going to love it here.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,362
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Post by calhoya on May 31, 2022 12:58:29 GMT -5
Murray was a top 100 recruit out of high school, and that athleticism was evident. He is also a very smart player - to his own detriment at times. Against Tennessee, he became openly frustrated with his teammates, and he needs to do a better job controlling his body language. At one point, Murray motioned with annoyance that his teammate took a three-pointer while double-covered when an extra pass would have given Murray an open look in the corner. While he was right, it’s not a good look to be frustrated when your teammate hits the contested look instead of passing to you. This was also apparent on defense, where he would openly show annoyance when he teammates missed assignments. www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2022/5/29/23145160/transfer-profile-brandon-murray-sec-all-freshman-starHe’s going to love it here. This kid is young and may simply be immature. Presumably, the coaching staff is aware of any baggage that might be disruptive in terms of relationships with teammates. Ewing did a poor job of managing the personalities of Akinjo and McClung but perhaps he has learned. Certainly the new assistant knows about any potential issues with Murray's on court personality and must have advised on how to address. Honestly, given the upside of the kid, I'll gladly take the risk that he can be taught to restrain any on court displays of frustration. If he cannot, then sit him til he learns. I certainly enjoyed watching the less talented, more team oriented back court of Mosley/Allen backcourt more than the game-by-game competition between Akinjo and McClung.
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hoyaroc
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,324
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Post by hoyaroc on May 31, 2022 13:00:35 GMT -5
Murray was a top 100 recruit out of high school, and that athleticism was evident. He is also a very smart player - to his own detriment at times. Against Tennessee, he became openly frustrated with his teammates, and he needs to do a better job controlling his body language. At one point, Murray motioned with annoyance that his teammate took a three-pointer while double-covered when an extra pass would have given Murray an open look in the corner. While he was right, it’s not a good look to be frustrated when your teammate hits the contested look instead of passing to you. This was also apparent on defense, where he would openly show annoyance when he teammates missed assignments. An extra year of maturity and a coach like Patrick Ewing should help him grow. Murray is not a bad teammate, far from it. He is always looking to make plays or set up his teammates, and no one on the floor will have more energy. www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2022/5/29/23145160/transfer-profile-brandon-murray-sec-all-freshman-star
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
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Post by prhoya on May 31, 2022 16:30:13 GMT -5
Murray was a top 100 recruit out of high school, and that athleticism was evident. He is also a very smart player - to his own detriment at times. Against Tennessee, he became openly frustrated with his teammates, and he needs to do a better job controlling his body language. At one point, Murray motioned with annoyance that his teammate took a three-pointer while double-covered when an extra pass would have given Murray an open look in the corner. While he was right, it’s not a good look to be frustrated when your teammate hits the contested look instead of passing to you. This was also apparent on defense, where he would openly show annoyance when he teammates missed assignments. www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2022/5/29/23145160/transfer-profile-brandon-murray-sec-all-freshman-starHe’s going to love it here. I wonder what defense Pat's going to use in Year 6: Defensively, Yurtseven was put into a system that asks a lot of its center in pick-and-roll coverage, no matter how good of a fit they are for it. For a Georgetown defense that ranked last in the Big East in defensive rating last season, its refusal to have its centers play anything but the hedge defense they are asked to execute on ball screens was head-scratching, to say the least.
“In past years, when Jessie [Govan] was here, we played down on the sides, and then hedge free throw line and up. This past year, he [Patrick Ewing] just decided to play hedge, and we just followed. I don’t really know why,” said Yurtseven. “But it was his scheme and all we had to do was go with it and trust in it. That’s what we did as a team and tried to run it the best way possible.”
“I tried to talk to him once,” Yurtseven went on to say. “I was trying to learn what is the basketball logic behind hedging, because I wanted to know, and he just said that’s the way I want to play, and that was it. That was the only answer I heard.”From that 247 article posted around here... At least Murray can ask Nickelberry.
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Post by trillesthoya on May 31, 2022 16:40:45 GMT -5
He’s going to love it here. I wonder what defense Pat's going to use in Year 6: Defensively, Yurtseven was put into a system that asks a lot of its center in pick-and-roll coverage, no matter how good of a fit they are for it. For a Georgetown defense that ranked last in the Big East in defensive rating last season, its refusal to have its centers play anything but the hedge defense they are asked to execute on ball screens was head-scratching, to say the least.
“In past years, when Jessie [Govan] was here, we played down on the sides, and then hedge free throw line and up. This past year, he [Patrick Ewing] just decided to play hedge, and we just followed. I don’t really know why,” said Yurtseven. “But it was his scheme and all we had to do was go with it and trust in it. That’s what we did as a team and tried to run it the best way possible.”
“I tried to talk to him once,” Yurtseven went on to say. “I was trying to learn what is the basketball logic behind hedging, because I wanted to know, and he just said that’s the way I want to play, and that was it. That was the only answer I heard.”From that 247 article posted around here... At least Murray can ask Nickelberry. Any other team that quote stirs an outrage. We had so much to be distracted by when it dropped it didn’t get the attention it deserved. I don’t consider myself an Ewing hater but refusing to explain your defensive philosophy to one of your team’s best players is a terrible look and probably indicates at least in part why we’ve had such a loyalty problem under Ewing’s tenure (though it seems Yurt and Pat are on great terms regardless)
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SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,339
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Post by SDHoya on May 31, 2022 16:42:18 GMT -5
He’s going to love it here. This kid is young and may simply be immature. Presumably, the coaching staff is aware of any baggage that might be disruptive in terms of relationships with teammates. Ewing did a poor job of managing the personalities of Akinjo and McClung but perhaps he has learned. Certainly the new assistant knows about any potential issues with Murray's on court personality and must have advised on how to address. Honestly, given the upside of the kid, I'll gladly take the risk that he can be taught to restrain any on court displays of frustration. If he cannot, then sit him til he learns. I certainly enjoyed watching the less talented, more team oriented back court of Mosley/Allen backcourt more than the game-by-game competition between Akinjo and McClung. Holding his teammates to account when he (correctly) assesses someone made a bad play is "baggage"? I mean, there are limits obviously, but assuming he holds himself to as high a standard as he holds his teammates, I see this as a likely positive. Aside from "getting frustrated", is there any scuttlebutt on Murray that he did not get along with his teammates in high school or at LSU?
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
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Post by hoya9797 on May 31, 2022 16:49:44 GMT -5
Maybe he'll be the first guy to hold the head coach accountable. It's long overdue and since he'll only be here a year, he's got little to lose.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
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Post by prhoya on May 31, 2022 16:57:06 GMT -5
I wonder what defense Pat's going to use in Year 6: Defensively, Yurtseven was put into a system that asks a lot of its center in pick-and-roll coverage, no matter how good of a fit they are for it. For a Georgetown defense that ranked last in the Big East in defensive rating last season, its refusal to have its centers play anything but the hedge defense they are asked to execute on ball screens was head-scratching, to say the least.
“In past years, when Jessie [Govan] was here, we played down on the sides, and then hedge free throw line and up. This past year, he [Patrick Ewing] just decided to play hedge, and we just followed. I don’t really know why,” said Yurtseven. “But it was his scheme and all we had to do was go with it and trust in it. That’s what we did as a team and tried to run it the best way possible.”
“I tried to talk to him once,” Yurtseven went on to say. “I was trying to learn what is the basketball logic behind hedging, because I wanted to know, and he just said that’s the way I want to play, and that was it. That was the only answer I heard.”From that 247 article posted around here... At least Murray can ask Nickelberry. Any other team that quote stirs an outrage. We had so much to be distracted by when it dropped it didn’t get the attention it deserved. I don’t consider myself an Ewing hater but refusing to explain your defensive philosophy to one of your team’s best players is a terrible look and probably indicates at least in part why we’ve had such a loyalty problem under Ewing’s tenure (though it seems Yurt and Pat are on great terms regardless) Nickelberry should be handed the defensive keys. The plan was to get another assistant coach, but it didn't work out again for Pat/Ronny. My concern is that he's also the Recruiting Coordinator. With the new transfer rules, the recruiting market has multiplied, which makes it harder to cover. Do we want him concentrating on recruiting or coaching defense?
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Post by trillesthoya on May 31, 2022 17:04:07 GMT -5
Any other team that quote stirs an outrage. We had so much to be distracted by when it dropped it didn’t get the attention it deserved. I don’t consider myself an Ewing hater but refusing to explain your defensive philosophy to one of your team’s best players is a terrible look and probably indicates at least in part why we’ve had such a loyalty problem under Ewing’s tenure (though it seems Yurt and Pat are on great terms regardless) Nickelberry should be handed the defensive keys. The plan was to get another assistant coach, but it didn't work out again for Pat/Ronny. My concern is that he's also the Recruiting Coordinator. With the new transfer rules, the recruiting market has multiplied, which makes it harder to cover. Do we want him concentrating on recruiting or coaching defense? You’re not alone in thinking this, but I’m not sure where the notion that Nickelberry could fix the defense is coming from. He had more sub-300 defenses at Howard than he did top-200. Talent disparity is obviously a thing but he has no track record for coaching defense.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
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Post by hoya9797 on May 31, 2022 17:22:44 GMT -5
Nickelberry should be handed the defensive keys. The plan was to get another assistant coach, but it didn't work out again for Pat/Ronny. My concern is that he's also the Recruiting Coordinator. With the new transfer rules, the recruiting market has multiplied, which makes it harder to cover. Do we want him concentrating on recruiting or coaching defense? You’re not alone in thinking this, but I’m not sure where the notion that Nickelberry could fix the defense is coming from. He had more sub-300 defenses at Howard than he did top-200. Talent disparity is obviously a thing but he has no track record for coaching defense. Not being Pat Ewing seems to be his main qualification. And, to be fair, that's a big deal.
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Post by trillesthoya on May 31, 2022 17:47:01 GMT -5
You’re not alone in thinking this, but I’m not sure where the notion that Nickelberry could fix the defense is coming from. He had more sub-300 defenses at Howard than he did top-200. Talent disparity is obviously a thing but he has no track record for coaching defense. Not being Pat Ewing seems to be his main qualification. And, to be fair, that's a big deal. Pat Ewing put together a top fifty defense in 20-21 which isn’t something Nickelberry has been able to come close to in all his time at Howard. Maybe he could’ve if he had a big East caliber roster at some point in his career, but the point is we have zero basis to think he is an improvement over even Ewing. They need to find a third assistant coach, teams are still hiring guys so it’s not totally out of the picture even if it’s June now.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on May 31, 2022 17:53:10 GMT -5
Nickelberry should be handed the defensive keys. The plan was to get another assistant coach, but it didn't work out again for Pat/Ronny. My concern is that he's also the Recruiting Coordinator. With the new transfer rules, the recruiting market has multiplied, which makes it harder to cover. Do we want him concentrating on recruiting or coaching defense? You’re not alone in thinking this, but I’m not sure where the notion that Nickelberry could fix the defense is coming from. He had more sub-300 defenses at Howard than he did top-200. Talent disparity is obviously a thing but he has no track record for coaching defense. Trying to stay positive that a coaching change after 5 years can somehow improve the worst defense in the BE... but yeah, I see your point. How will 10 new players play together with Dante & Mutombo? Will it look like last year's lost-all-over-the-place defense? Will Orr finally see zone defense from Pat? Does Murray know that Pat is in his 5th consecutive year of having a team ranked in the 300s in 3-point defense? Since it cannot get any worse after 5 years of the same staff, any improvement is on Nickelberry's shoulders. He's in a no-lose situation.
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