Ewing, Defense and Transfers

[upstatesaxa]

I haven't felt the need to say much of anything for about a year... this season was brutal, and all the things that need to have been written (and many that haven't) have been repeated endlessly.  But let me just take another kick at a couple of favorite topics in this little galaxy:

1. "Ewing can't coach defense" - Translation: He doesn't understand it.  Come on guys, the defensive statistics are terrible, and hundreds of individual incidences of defensive lapses have been pointed out here.  But do we really think the Pat doesn't understand what makes good defense?  Jeez, he was tutored by Big John, whose defenses were so smothering that guys like Brent Musberger were almost calling them unfair.  Thereafter Pat graduates into the NBA where his defensive mentors included Rick Pitino, Pat Riley and the Van Gundys, among others.  All acknowledged defensive gurus.  Probably Pat has had more in depth exposure to defensive doctrine, technique, film analysis and the like than John Thompson ever did.

And do we think he's shy about imparting that 25 year trove of knowledge to the young men he's coached here?  Does anybody remember "One legged?!?"  Maybe we've recruited the wrong guys.  Maybe the guys we have don't care.  Or, can't be made to care.  But can anybody really argue that the players haven't been urged to get after it, and shown how?  Which leads me to:

2. Transfers.  I hate these as much as the next guy, and did even back in the days when Anthony Jones departed before coming close to achieving his full potential (though the young man from Baltimore who came in thereafter certainly achieved HIS).  Q's incomprehensible decisionmaking hit me hard.

I'd hate to be a coach now.... its no accident (age and health aside) that Roy Williams and Mike Kryzewski are heading for the exits... just in the last couple years the in demand skills for high major coaches have expanded to include "Spend hours figuring out how to pry disaffected kids off their current teams" and "Spend even more hours stopping other weasels from prying guys off the Hoya roster."  God knows how many sleazy entreaties are being pitched to Aminu right now.  The college game is now just about fully soaked in the Putinesque ethics of the AAU universe.  Some of the most prolific commenters here probably feel: "Goddamn right.  Thats why we need a coach who understands the underworld and can master it!"  Well, sorry Jay Bilas and the guys like him:  I actually preferred college sports before it became a bastardized semi pro endeavor with less structure than the NBA or NFL.

Back to Pat.  I'd GUESS, but don't know, that much of the volume of our transfer activity has been because Pat is a demanding, old school type who holds guys to strict standards.  Don't be a knucklehead.  Don't be a bad citizen on the campus or in the community.  Play unselfishly.  That sort of stuff.

And to me the saddest part is that most of the guys we'd most like to recruit no longer give a rat's @ss about the value of a college education in general and a Georgetown degree in particular.  We're so far away from the days of 99 out of 101 guys graduating that its disheartening.  Now we (and almost every program) is just a temporary way station on the way to "the League!"  Little different, say, from LSU or Texas A&M.  Auburn. Who cares about the quality of the education if you plan on being in school for about three semesters at most?  So a lot of these "student athletes" transfer because they're semi pro journeymen roaming the free agency landscape that is now college sports.

[upstatesaxa]

Despite what my wife says, I'm not an idiot.... Pat can't perpetually avoid the consequences of a W/L record in what is a results driven business.

But just understand this, those of you most enamored of your torches and pitchforks: a reboot that breaks with the Thompson legacy means that Georgetown will have (purely in basketball terms) relatively little special about it, aside from a decent practice facility and access to a pool of DMV talent.  We're back to 1972 or 1973.  Total rebuild from the ground up.  And all those banners and retired unis and statues and everything else will simply be reminders of a bygone, irrelevant era disconnected from whatever shiny new shyster we can roll out as our new coach.  Though certainly lip service will be paid to what came before.

The hole we're in now is terrible.  What comes next likely could be worse.

Y'all have a nice day.  Hoya Saxa.  And don't forget... Manley Field House is STILL closed!

[boxout05]

Mar 16, 2022 4:14:53 GMT -5 upstatesaxa said:

a reboot that breaks with the Thompson legacy means that Georgetown will have (purely in basketball terms) relatively little special about it, aside from a decent practice facility and access to a pool of DMV talent.  We're back to 1972 or 1973.  Total rebuild from the ground up.  And all those banners and retired unis and statues and everything else will simply be reminders of a bygone, irrelevant era

We’re there already.

The Thompson Legacy can’t be about employing as many family and friends as possible, and all many of the pitchfork crowd are asking for is a broader search to find the best possible leader for this program.

[sweetness]

0-20, no conference winning record in 7 years, one NCAA tourney win in 10 years.

You really can't get much worse than that....I say let's take our chances.

[calhoya]

A quality coach has to be a good teacher. Knowledge alone does not guarantee that someone can effectively impart that knowledge to others. I have no doubt Ewing understands the game. I have no doubt that he cares about building the program back to a respectable level and relevance. I have no doubt that he has put in the effort necessary to succeed. It just has not happened.

Being able to effectively communicate that knowledge to numerous individuals with different means of learning is critical. By his own admission in post-game news sessions and by the results on the court, Ewing has not yet been successful in conveying what he is trying to teach to his players. The school seems to be willing to double down on him figuring it out next year. If wrong, the Thompson legacy, the Ewing legacy and the school's basketball program will be set back even farther than has already occurred. None of us can stop the school from taking the risk, but the fear that terminating Ewing can lead to something worse should not be the reason for accepting continued mediocrity.

[boxout05]

As has been said before, there’s no Thompson Legacy without winning. Nobody bought Starter jackets or talks about a deflated basketball for a sub-.500 program, and saying we either have to settle for the status quo or go with Coach Sleazy McSleazbucket is astraw man.

It’s not as if folks are asking to rip the Thompson name off the TAC like he’s Joe Paterno.

[Bigs"R"Us]

Mar 16, 2022 4:14:53 GMT -5 upstatesaxa said:

Despite what my wife says, I'm not an idiot.... Pat can't perpetually avoid the consequences of a W/L record in what is a results driven business.

But just understand this, those of you most enamored of your torches and pitchforks: a reboot that breaks with the Thompson legacy means that Georgetown will have (purely in basketball terms) relatively little special about it, aside from a decent practice facility and access to a pool of DMV talent.  We're back to 1972 or 1973.  Total rebuild from the ground up.  And all those banners and retired unis and statues and everything else will simply be reminders of a bygone, irrelevant era disconnected from whatever shiny new shyster we can roll out as our new coach.  Though certainly lip service will be paid to what came before.

The hole we're in now is terrible.  What comes next likely could be worse.

Y'all have a nice day.  Hoya Saxa.  And don't forget... Manley Field House is STILL closed!

We all fear change. We need to find the next great coach and not cling to the past too tightly. The current model is not working. If we were merely average, we could debate the direction of the program, but we are dead last. I don’t believe we are going to turn the corner in Pat’s sixth year or tenth. Unfortunately, it looks like it’s business as usual with an attempt at smoke and-mirrors. I feel sad for the generation of students who will not bond over basketball as alumni. Like it or not, we are a basketball school.

[KHoyaNYC]

Mar 16, 2022 4:04:56 GMT -5 upstatesaxa said:

I haven't felt the need to say much of anything for about a year... this season was brutal, and all the things that need to have been written (and many that haven't) have been repeated endlessly.  But let me just take another kick at a couple of favorite topics in this little galaxy:

1. "Ewing can't coach defense" - Translation: He doesn't understand it.  Come on guys, the defensive statistics are terrible, and hundreds of individual incidences of defensive lapses have been pointed out here.  But do we really think the Pat doesn't understand what makes good defense?  Jeez, he was tutored by Big John, whose defenses were so smothering that guys like Brent Musberger were almost calling them unfair.  Thereafter Pat graduates into the NBA where his defensive mentors included Rick Pitino, Pat Riley and the Van Gundys, among others.  All acknowledged defensive gurus.  Probably Pat has had more in depth exposure to defensive doctrine, technique, film analysis and the like than John Thompson ever did.

And do we think he's shy about imparting that 25 year trove of knowledge to the young men he's coached here?  Does anybody remember "One legged?!?"  Maybe we've recruited the wrong guys.  Maybe the guys we have don't care.  Or, can't be made to care.  But can anybody really argue that the players haven't been urged to get after it, and shown how?  Which leads me to:

2. Transfers.  I hate these as much as the next guy, and did even back in the days when Anthony Jones departed before coming close to achieving his full potential (though the young man from Baltimore who came in thereafter certainly achieved HIS).  Q's incomprehensible decisionmaking hit me hard.

I'd hate to be a coach now.... its no accident (age and health aside) that Roy Williams and Mike Kryzewski are heading for the exits... just in the last couple years the in demand skills for high major coaches have expanded to include "Spend hours figuring out how to pry disaffected kids off their current teams" and "Spend even more hours stopping other weasels from prying guys off the Hoya roster."  God knows how many sleazy entreaties are being pitched to Aminu right now.  The college game is now just about fully soaked in the Putinesque ethics of the AAU universe.  Some of the most prolific commenters here probably feel: "Goddamn right.  Thats why we need a coach who understands the underworld and can master it!"  Well, sorry Jay Bilas and the guys like him:  I actually preferred college sports before it became a bastardized semi pro endeavor with less structure than the NBA or NFL.

Back to Pat.  I'd GUESS, but don't know, that much of the volume of our transfer activity has been because Pat is a demanding, old school type who holds guys to strict standards.  Don't be a knucklehead.  Don't be a bad citizen on the campus or in the community.  Play unselfishly.  That sort of stuff.

And to me the saddest part is that most of the guys we'd most like to recruit no longer give a rat's @ss about the value of a college education in general and a Georgetown degree in particular.  We're so far away from the days of 99 out of 101 guys graduating that its disheartening.  Now we (and almost every program) is just a temporary way station on the way to "the League!"  Little different, say, from LSU or Texas A&M.  Auburn. Who cares about the quality of the education if you plan on being in school for about three semesters at most?  So a lot of these "student athletes" transfer because they're semi pro journeymen roaming the free agency landscape that is now college sports.

Don’t disagree with what you are saying in theory. But when is the time to pull the band-aid and acknowledge that Ewing is not the right coach for this program? If it’s not after an 0-20 Big East season, when is it?

And on your legacy/history point, we should be proud of that history and always embrace it. Always. But it’s of little to no relevance to today’s college basketball recruit. As you seem to acknowledge. So we need to adapt. That doesn’t mean casting our core values and principles aside. If you come to Georgetown, you go to class. You behave honorably. You don’t cut corners. Those tenets don’t change. There are other aspects though we do need to change. Being more social media friendly/savvy is one easy one. Committing every resource we can to engage and recruit better from the DMV is another. There are of course more. The status quo cannot continue.

[TC]

Mar 16, 2022 4:14:53 GMT -5 upstatesaxa said:

But just understand this, those of you most enamored of your torches and pitchforks: a reboot that breaks with the Thompson legacy means that Georgetown will have (purely in basketball terms) relatively little special about it, aside from a decent practice facility and access to a pool of DMV talent.  We're back to 1972 or 1973.  Total rebuild from the ground up.  And all those banners and retired unis and statues and everything else will simply be reminders of a bygone, irrelevant era disconnected from whatever shiny new shyster we can roll out as our new coach.  Though certainly lip service will be paid to what came before.

That was the argument for not firing JT3.

BoD fired JT3. We hired a Coach no one else would hire, gave him an extension after no record of success and no threat that he would go elsewhere, and went 0-20.

We're at 1972. Patrick Ewing's record is worse than Jack Magee's - and he did that with a 5* recruit. It's time to treat things like 1972 again and be brave and look outside.

[hoya73]

Old timer notes that Jack Magee had a senior Mike Laughna, one of the true great Hoyas ever.

[hoya73]

Mar 16, 2022 4:04:56 GMT -5 upstatesaxa said:

I haven't felt the need to say much of anything for about a year... this season was brutal, and all the things that need to have been written (and many that haven't) have been repeated endlessly.  But let me just take another kick at a couple of favorite topics in this little galaxy:

1. "Ewing can't coach defense" - Translation: He doesn't understand it.  Come on guys, the defensive statistics are terrible, and hundreds of individual incidences of defensive lapses have been pointed out here.  But do we really think the Pat doesn't understand what makes good defense?  Jeez, he was tutored by Big John, whose defenses were so smothering that guys like Brent Musberger were almost calling them unfair.  Thereafter Pat graduates into the NBA where his defensive mentors included Rick Pitino, Pat Riley and the Van Gundys, among others.  All acknowledged defensive gurus.  Probably Pat has had more in depth exposure to defensive doctrine, technique, film analysis and the like than John Thompson ever did.

And do we think he's shy about imparting that 25 year trove of knowledge to the young men he's coached here?  Does anybody remember "One legged?!?"  Maybe we've recruited the wrong guys.  Maybe the guys we have don't care.  Or, can't be made to care.  But can anybody really argue that the players haven't been urged to get after it, and shown how?  Which leads me to:






Addressing the defensive woes.
BTW, One Legged wasn't coaching defense, but offense.

Ewing seemingly hasn't tried installing a JT II-like "pressure on the ball" defense.
He seemingly has tried installing an NBA-model "contain your man" type defense.

That is at the heart of the problem.

[johnnysnowplow]

Mar 16, 2022 4:04:56 GMT -5 upstatesaxa said:

I haven't felt the need to say much of anything for about a year... this season was brutal, and all the things that need to have been written (and many that haven't) have been repeated endlessly.  But let me just take another kick at a couple of favorite topics in this little galaxy:

1. "Ewing can't coach defense" - Translation: He doesn't understand it. Come on guys, the defensive statistics are terrible, and hundreds of individual incidences of defensive lapses have been pointed out here.  But do we really think the Pat doesn't understand what makes good defense?  Jeez, he was tutored by Big John, whose defenses were so smothering that guys like Brent Musberger were almost calling them unfair.  Thereafter Pat graduates into the NBA where his defensive mentors included Rick Pitino, Pat Riley and the Van Gundys, among others.  All acknowledged defensive gurus.  Probably Pat has had more in depth exposure to defensive doctrine, technique, film analysis and the like than John Thompson ever did.

And do we think he's shy about imparting that 25 year trove of knowledge to the young men he's coached here?  Does anybody remember "One legged?!?"  Maybe we've recruited the wrong guys.  Maybe the guys we have don't care.  Or, can't be made to care.  But can anybody really argue that the players haven't been urged to get after it, and shown how?  Which leads me to:

I think your “translation” misses the mark. Not being able to coach defense is not merely a function of Pat not understanding defense principles. It is also a function of is his inability to teach/communicate said principles effectively.

He consistently blames the players for not executing what he seems to think are bulletproof gameplans. And it’s been this way for the vast majority of his 5 years. I think most here would agree that the talent level on this team, while subpar for sure, at least lends itself to being better than mid-200s in defensive efficiency.

Whether the reason for that is he doesn’t understand what makes a successful COLLEGE defense in 2022 (not 1984) or he can’t effectively communicate his message is up for debate. Personally, I think it’s a little of both, but any way you slice it, I think it’s accurate to say he “can’t coach defense”.

[cas92]

Mar 16, 2022 9:26:36 GMT -5 johnnysnowplow said:

Mar 16, 2022 4:04:56 GMT -5 upstatesaxa said:

I haven't felt the need to say much of anything for about a year... this season was brutal, and all the things that need to have been written (and many that haven't) have been repeated endlessly.  But let me just take another kick at a couple of favorite topics in this little galaxy:

1. "Ewing can't coach defense" - Translation: He doesn't understand it. Come on guys, the defensive statistics are terrible, and hundreds of individual incidences of defensive lapses have been pointed out here.  But do we really think the Pat doesn't understand what makes good defense?  Jeez, he was tutored by Big John, whose defenses were so smothering that guys like Brent Musberger were almost calling them unfair.  Thereafter Pat graduates into the NBA where his defensive mentors included Rick Pitino, Pat Riley and the Van Gundys, among others.  All acknowledged defensive gurus.  Probably Pat has had more in depth exposure to defensive doctrine, technique, film analysis and the like than John Thompson ever did.

And do we think he's shy about imparting that 25 year trove of knowledge to the young men he's coached here?  Does anybody remember "One legged?!?"  Maybe we've recruited the wrong guys.  Maybe the guys we have don't care.  Or, can't be made to care.  But can anybody really argue that the players haven't been urged to get after it, and shown how?  Which leads me to:

I think your “translation” misses the mark. Not being able to coach defense is not merely a function of Pat not understanding defense principles. It is also a function of is his inability to teach/communicate said principles effectively.

He consistently blames the players for not executing what he seems to think are bulletproof gameplans. And it’s been this way for the vast majority of his 5 years. I think most here would agree that the talent level on this team, while subpar for sure, at least lends itself to being better than mid-200s in defensive efficiency.

Whether the reason for that is he doesn’t understand what makes a successful COLLEGE defense in 2022 (not 1984) or he can’t effectively communicate his message is up for debate. Personally, I think it’s a little of both, but any way you slice it, I think it’s accurate to say he “can’t coach defense”.

He would be well served to embrace a semblance of humility - whoever's around him (like those here who support him w/o fail) continually gas up his ego and are failing him, themselves, and the school.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Mar 16, 2022 4:04:56 GMT -5 upstatesaxa said:

I haven't felt the need to say much of anything for about a year... this season was brutal, and all the things that need to have been written (and many that haven't) have been repeated endlessly.  But let me just take another kick at a couple of favorite topics in this little galaxy:

1. "Ewing can't coach defense" - Translation: He doesn't understand it.  Come on guys, the defensive statistics are terrible, and hundreds of individual incidences of defensive lapses have been pointed out here.  But do we really think the Pat doesn't understand what makes good defense?  Jeez, he was tutored by Big John, whose defenses were so smothering that guys like Brent Musberger were almost calling them unfair.  Thereafter Pat graduates into the NBA where his defensive mentors included Rick Pitino, Pat Riley and the Van Gundys, among others.  All acknowledged defensive gurus.  Probably Pat has had more in depth exposure to defensive doctrine, technique, film analysis and the like than John Thompson ever did.

And do we think he's shy about imparting that 25 year trove of knowledge to the young men he's coached here?  Does anybody remember "One legged?!?"  Maybe we've recruited the wrong guys.  Maybe the guys we have don't care.  Or, can't be made to care.  But can anybody really argue that the players haven't been urged to get after it, and shown how?  Which leads me to:

2. Transfers.  I hate these as much as the next guy, and did even back in the days when Anthony Jones departed before coming close to achieving his full potential (though the young man from Baltimore who came in thereafter certainly achieved HIS).  Q's incomprehensible decisionmaking hit me hard.

I'd hate to be a coach now.... its no accident (age and health aside) that Roy Williams and Mike Kryzewski are heading for the exits... just in the last couple years the in demand skills for high major coaches have expanded to include "Spend hours figuring out how to pry disaffected kids off their current teams" and "Spend even more hours stopping other weasels from prying guys off the Hoya roster."  God knows how many sleazy entreaties are being pitched to Aminu right now.  The college game is now just about fully soaked in the Putinesque ethics of the AAU universe.  Some of the most prolific commenters here probably feel: "Goddamn right.  Thats why we need a coach who understands the underworld and can master it!"  Well, sorry Jay Bilas and the guys like him:  I actually preferred college sports before it became a bastardized semi pro endeavor with less structure than the NBA or NFL.

Back to Pat.  I'd GUESS, but don't know, that much of the volume of our transfer activity has been because Pat is a demanding, old school type who holds guys to strict standards.  Don't be a knucklehead.  Don't be a bad citizen on the campus or in the community.  Play unselfishly.  That sort of stuff.

And to me the saddest part is that most of the guys we'd most like to recruit no longer give a rat's @ss about the value of a college education in general and a Georgetown degree in particular.  We're so far away from the days of 99 out of 101 guys graduating that its disheartening.  Now we (and almost every program) is just a temporary way station on the way to "the League!"  Little different, say, from LSU or Texas A&M.  Auburn. Who cares about the quality of the education if you plan on being in school for about three semesters at most?  So a lot of these "student athletes" transfer because they're semi pro journeymen roaming the free agency landscape that is now college sports.

First, I am not sure why this merited its own thread, since this is just a rehash of what has been discussed for months in the "current state" thread.

Second, I am confident that Patrick Ewing knows what good defense looks like. In fact, he himself has pointed out at times that our defense has not been good, so he clearly sees that it is a problem. But, as others have said, there is a big difference between knowing something and teaching. Think back to high school or college. Some teachers/professors are amazing at teaching their material. Other teachers/professors may be brilliant or know their material excellently, but they are horrible teachers. For example, back in 1999, I had a chemistry professor at Georgetown for basic chemistry, who clearly knew chemistry extremely well but was an absolutely awful teacher (in contrast, I had a high school AP chemistry teacher who definitely did not "know" as much as the Georgetown professor, and did not have a Ph.D, but taught the material way better).

I know the TV huddles are somewhat fiction because they are staged, but Ewing will often yell platitudes at the players (gotta cover your man, rebound, get back on defense). Of course, Ewing is not necessarily wrong, but there is a difference between telling someone to cover their man, and instructing someone how to do that.

To your point, I actually do take issue with whether the guys have been "shown how" to defend well. Look at Yurtseven's comments about Ewing, and his failure to explain the reasoning behind using the hard hedge. If anything, that just solidifies my hunch that while Ewing may be knowledgeable, he just doesn't teach well (and this isn't a hunch, it is demonstrated by our utter lack of success on defense).

Third, coaches always say they hate recruiting. You reference Roy Williams and Coach K and say "age and health aside," except both of them, especially Coach K, are up there in years. And Coach K has clearly had some health things going on. Give me the name of a young/successful coach who willingly steps away from basketball because recruiting/transfers are just too tough. Yeah, there aren't any.

Fourth, on transfers, you say, "I'd GUESS, but don't know, that much of the volume of our transfer activity has been because Pat is a demanding, old school type who holds guys to strict standards." Obviously, we are not in the locker room, but it's noteworthy that Ewing has lost a ton of starter-caliber players to transfer, which is NOT COMMON. Also, many of these transfers occurred when the transferees left knowing they might have to sit out a year. It is a coach's responsibility to connect with their kids and retain their talent. Ewing has undoubtedly failed at this. Last year's transfers were in late March (Wahab), April (Berger), and May (Sibley). So, we have yet to see what will happen with this group, after an 0-20 season. Also, EWING has recruited these guys. So if they aren't good fits for Ewing's style, that falls on Ewing.

Lastly, I think we need to honor the Thompson legacy, but that does not mean being behold to guys that were on the Hilltop 40 years ago. If we continually lose, we are one of the worst programs in Division I, and we are a laughing stock in the Big East (not only because of this performance, but because we tolerate it, and even reward it by doling out multi-year multi-million dollar extensions to undeserving coaches), we aren't honoring that legacy at all. Instead, we are making a once-great program into an afterthought.

[hoyas212]

The coaching staff bares some responsibility for the volume of transfers that goes beyond being old school or demanding. They brought in Galen Alexander, who got dismissed by LSU. They can’t be surprised when he doesn’t make it at a much more rigid environment at Georgetown. They recruited Tre King and James Akinjo for a couple of weeks before securing commitments. That’s not a lot of time for either side to determine if it’s a good fit. They’ve brought in 2 players with non family member “handlers”, guys who aren’t involved with kids out of the goodness of their hearts, but to benefit from their basketball abilities.

As far as defense, a lot has changed in cbb since Ewing played or coached under any of his mentors. By any metric, there is a 5 year sample size of terrible defense. There have been a lot of players over 5 years. It’s not realistic that all these teams lack effort, or the willingness or ability to be taught and execute defensive strategies.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

I just finished reading the coach K book and I had recently read the Season on the Brink (Knight book). What is clear about the approach of both is how much they delegate to assistants. They also are constantly reassessing what does & doesn't work. Knight clearly was/is a nut but for his era, he knew when his teams personnel was falling short and he was constantly shuffling the deck of his assistants. Coach K has done the same thing and when he hit rough patches, he reset and got younger (with his assistants). He also was able to adjust and read the tea leaves of the way recruiting was going. Duke has clearly played on the edges of NCAA legality for a long time. To be successful, you have to push the envelope and do what others are not (not cheating, but figuring out different angles the other schools aren't pushing yet).

Gtown has some unique buttons they could push with some creativity. The Cooper initiative might be one, an international recruiting angle (look at Arizona this year) might be another. I just don't see the creativity out of the current staff & admin and that is going to be what it takes to get this thing right.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Mar 16, 2022 10:23:04 GMT -5 larrylegend33 said:

"It could be worse"? Here's a hypothetical: if the current Big East coaches were lined up and each Big East school's president were forced to draft a new coach from that group in a random order, with the condition that each school had to pick a different coach from its existing one ... where do you think Patrick Ewing goes in that draft? Is there even much debate on that?

You can watch two dozen mid major coaches this week playing in the NCAA tournament, most of whom currently make 10-25% of what Ewing makes, have track records of success in building programs, and would jump at the chance to coach the Hoyas next year.

Choosing to be terrible for at least another season because you're more committed to Patrick Ewing and some old friends than you are to competitive basketball or to your students and supporters is a failure in leadership, plain and simple.

Well said.

My main reason for defending JT3 to the bitter end (which I stated at the time) was the "it could be worse" possibility, combined with his previous success. That argument no longer carries any weight when we finished the season as the 4th worst high major team. Only Pittsburgh (204), Georgia (221), and Oregon State (233) fell below us (and Crean already got fired from Georgia). Even if you add in the AAC and Mountain West, there are still only three more teams that are worse than us. So in the top ranked 7 conferences this season, only 6 teams were worse off than us.

Now, literally, could it get worse? Maybe. We could have half the roster depart, the team could stop fighting, and we could go 0-20 next year, and be ranked even worse. After all "only" 3 other teams from the high major conferences were ranked worse than us. We could always be the worst next year.

To me, the bigger issue is that there is a very high chance that if Ewing were replaced, nearly any other coach would be an improvement to some degree (even if someone from the "family"). Maybe not a great coach, maybe not even a regular NCAA qualifier, but better than the current state of affairs. Make no mistake. Even if Ewing is sent walking, there are no guarantees whoever replaced him would quickly turn things around and get us back to the NCAA tournament regularly, etc. But, I think there's a better chance of improvement with someone else, than getting more of the same.

[mchoya]

Pat said Big John would be rolling in his grave after the Marquette loss that opened Big East play.

They then lost NINETEEN additional games.

How’s that staying connected to the Thompson legacy?

Big John wasn’t a loser and his legacy is making Georgetown nationally relevant and competitive. His legacy sure as hell wasn’t securing a permanent position for Bill Howze to be on his cell phone behind the bench during the games.

[DownTownJoeyBrown]

Mar 16, 2022 4:04:56 GMT -5 upstatesaxa said:

1. "Ewing can't coach defense" - Translation: He doesn't understand it.  Come on guys, the defensive statistics are terrible, and hundreds of individual incidences of defensive lapses have been pointed out here.  But do we really think the Pat doesn't understand what makes good defense?  Jeez, he was tutored by Big John, whose defenses were so smothering that guys like Brent Musberger were almost calling them unfair.  Thereafter Pat graduates into the NBA where his defensive mentors included Rick Pitino, Pat Riley and the Van Gundys, among others.  All acknowledged defensive gurus.  Probably Pat has had more in depth exposure to defensive doctrine, technique, film analysis and the like than John Thompson ever did.

Ewing's 5 teams are sub 300 (out of ~330 D1 schools) in effective 3 point FG defense. So put me in the "Ewing can't coach defense" camp. With a five year sample size you can't blame not having players who can defend. So IMO Ewing either doesn't know he has a problem (inexcusable), or knows his teams have a serious issue defending the 3 point line and simply can't fix it (also inexcusable). I'm having trouble understanding any other angle here. And to me, this is the number one reason to move on from Ewing. Defending the 3 and analytics are kind of important in today's game and he's been incompetent at one or both of these things.

So to answer your question - yes. I don't think he understands defense and/or has any idea how to coach it. And if you've seen any actual evidence to the contrary, outside of he was a great defender so..., I'd love to see it

[hoyarooter]

Mar 16, 2022 7:12:48 GMT -5 calhoya said:

A quality coach has to be a good teacher. Knowledge alone does not guarantee that someone can effectively impart that knowledge to others. I have no doubt Ewing understands the game. I have no doubt that he cares about building the program back to a respectable level and relevance. I have no doubt that he has put in the effort necessary to succeed. It just has not happened.

Being able to effectively communicate that knowledge to numerous individuals with different means of learning is critical. By his own admission in post-game news sessions and by the results on the court, Ewing has not yet been successful in conveying what he is trying to teach to his players. The school seems to be willing to double down on him figuring it out next year. If wrong, the Thompson legacy, the Ewing legacy and the school's basketball program will be set back even farther than has already occurred. None of us can stop the school from taking the risk, but the fear that terminating Ewing can lead to something worse should not be the reason for accepting continued mediocrity.

Continued mediocrity is actually being kind. Take it from someone who lived through 1972. What we saw this year was abject failure (Syracuse aside - and even that isn't enough to excuse this).