hoyaroc
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,324
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Post by hoyaroc on Feb 6, 2022 15:35:55 GMT -5
I'd know it wouldn't happen and it would probably be Orr taking over but I would really like to see what Crouch could do with this team for a couple of weeks. If coach is not retained I definitely like to see Crouch as well.
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,402
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Post by iowa80 on Feb 6, 2022 15:41:48 GMT -5
I wish that I could stand to rewatch this because the stated 19 turnovers seems low to me. Rewatching a game to count turnovers might put me on the brink of insanity.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 6, 2022 15:56:36 GMT -5
I agree that Harris is stinking it up. Beard isn’t the answer either. He’s struggled mightily. I’d rather play Aminu at the point, let him get downhill and maybe he gets a better understanding when he needs to get to the rim and when he should dish. The PG answer isn’t on the roster. Maybe go with Don at the point. Aminu is improving with his decision making but I still believe him running point you lead to no real offense being run.....ever.
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95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,300
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Post by 95hoya on Feb 6, 2022 16:07:47 GMT -5
And he’s lighting up Georgetown and looking like a difference maker. Against anyone else he’s just a solid backup. Oh and you are mistaken, he had a promising freshman year at St. Joe’s. Again, he wouldn't have met the criteria you posted about today in the current state of the Hoyas thread. It's easy to talk about talent levels in hindsight or when a team is losing a lot It’s not hindsight, many of us have been frustrated with the recruiting his entire tenure.
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Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,518
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Feb 6, 2022 16:10:48 GMT -5
And yet the track team had a great day yesterday!
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rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 743
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Post by rhw485 on Feb 6, 2022 16:13:22 GMT -5
That was tough to watch - When Stephen Bardo said in the pregame that we needed to hit 13 3s or more to win, I couldn't help but laugh out loud. Not because he's wrong, but rather how obvious it is to everyone that's our only chance. Notwithstanding we've only hit 13 3s twice this season, one when Kaiden hit 10 and the other was against Providence, when we lost anyway.
- Even in real time, the first half felt a little like fools gold. We were getting zero points in the half court offense, the only way we were able to score was in transition and hitting 3s on the secondary break. That was actually the best we looked on the break, but there was nothing doing in the halfcourt. Was it realistic to expect our defense to force another 8 turnovers in the 2nd half? There had to be an adjustment to get something going in the halfcourt and it wasn't there. So when the defensive turnovers dried up, it was game over
- Providence halfcourt defensive plan was really simple, switch every screen 1-4. On side ballscreens, ice them and force to the side. On middle ball screens, blitz the ball handler. We did NOTHING to really counter. Flip the direction of the side screen and have Dante snake into the middle one time. Feign a screen on a 1-4 ball screen and cause some confusion about whether you should switch. Instead we were forced into one on ones and we didn't have the skill to consistently make them pay. We committed four straight turnovers at one point, I think all of them were live ball stolen out of our hands.
- You literally saw the energy drain out of them. The defensive energy waned once the offense stalled out. It was curtains from there. At times we were literally chucking shots because if we tried to do anything else we'd turn it over.
- I don't have the energy to defend Dante today, and he was generally terrible. Even when he had Watson or Croswell on a switch, there's no fear of his jumper so they're playing so far off they can block his drives to the hoop. Its tough for him to create shots for others when there's just no fear of him with the ball in his hands. This board wants there to be more to Beard than there is, and that's fine (two more turnovers in four minutes). But even I can see that Beard should've played the last 5 minutes of garbage time to keep him engaged and get him experience. Ewing even went to a lineup without Dante or Beard, not that it fared any better.
I'm telling myself we can get one of the Creighton games because it's tough to beat a team twice in three days. But that's pretty much all I'm holding onto, DePaul is playing hard and making progress, we're not going to be favored in those. And again that's really just for the players. 1-18 vs. 0-19 doesn't really make a difference big picture just want them to get one reprieve from this onslaught and avoid record books.
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bluegray79
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,101
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Post by bluegray79 on Feb 6, 2022 16:26:10 GMT -5
This is a reply to a comment above but not concerning the Providence game. I'll post it here but also in the Current Program thread as well.
I'm sorry, but I don't know what Coach Crouch's background is. Can he coach? Is he an X's and O's guy? From the snippets that come out of Hoya Talk and his Twitter feed, he seems to have a good connection with the players, almost like a life coach. Spiritual and nurturing, encouraging. Have never been totally clear what his coaching role or specialty is. Any info would be helpful.
I love Louie Orr but would not want him to move up should the top spot be open. We need a break and clean start. Did anyone see the segment on Shaka Smart today? Would love things to take that kind of turn.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
Posts: 4,992
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Feb 6, 2022 16:31:47 GMT -5
decent defensive effort until about 13 min left. harris, rice and carey shot a combined 3-23. you need good perimeter players to compete and ours are certainly not good. this is easily the worst Hoyas team in my lifetime as a fan and it's not even close. the win over su(ck) is the only saving grace in this sh!t show of a season
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Post by bearsandbulls on Feb 6, 2022 16:43:14 GMT -5
With all this discussion about do we or don't we, is anyone thinking of making a clean break from the JT, JTIII, and PE eras, with starting clean from the ground up. The last number of years have had a bit too much "wannabe" approach.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,995
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 6, 2022 16:44:37 GMT -5
Again, he wouldn't have met the criteria you posted about today in the current state of the Hoyas thread. It's easy to talk about talent levels in hindsight or when a team is losing a lot It’s not hindsight, many of us have been frustrated with the recruiting his entire tenure. I haven't been frustrated with the staffs recruiting, I've been frustrated with the lack of retention & development. Recruiting doesn't mean much if the kids aren't staying around long or being productive if they do stay...
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,402
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Post by iowa80 on Feb 6, 2022 17:02:22 GMT -5
Kudos to the group. I was gritting my teeth thinking I might see some stuff along the lines of “Well, Bynum was on fire, what do we expect?” But no. That’s good.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,362
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Post by calhoya on Feb 6, 2022 17:24:05 GMT -5
It's not the missed shots that got to me as that happens, but the incredibly careless TOs with passes to no one and guards having the ball slapped out of their hands repeatedly. Ryan will be a star and I just hope he sticks with the program. Cannot comment much more about the latest collapse because with about 13 minutes to go I saw the light at the end of the tunnel and decided not to wait to get hit by the train. I will sleep better tonight as a result.
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hoyajmw
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,032
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Post by hoyajmw on Feb 6, 2022 17:24:13 GMT -5
A few second opinions/observations from courtside today, and from the area for a while now:
(1) Dante indeed seemed VERY uninterested in playing hard (bad body language spot on by the Provy announcing crew). How the staff couldn't find time for Beard is simply beyond me.
(2) Haven't seen this commented on, but Mutombo checked out energy-wise too as the game slipped away. At least one fast break he all but lollygagged back on D in an obvious "why try?" moment. Maybe he just isn't in shape but it looked like a lack of interest to me (and to two guys I was with, one of who was a D1 player who REALLY knows hoops). I think this bodes very ill for the team mentality going forward, which is really a shame both for the team's outlook and for the enjoyment of the players as a whole.
(3) Bynum indeed did not seem like a big time talent at Prep. Solid ball-player, yes, but even St. Joe's looked like a bit of a stretch for his size and skills. In college he remade his body and his game became much more solid along with it -- so props to him for keeping at it and climbing! But who among us is surprised we could make a Providence sixth man (at best) look like the biggest local miss since Josh Hart?
(4) While the announced attendance was 5579, there is NO CHANCE there were even 4,000 fans in the building -- and I think at least about 30% of those were Providence fans (based both on cheering volume and attire observed on the concourse). At some point this HAS to hurt the bottom line in a way that is meaningful, doesn't it, even if TV money dwarfs ticket revenue? Remember the gimmick this year of not charging fans (in theory) for the "easy" out of conference games in November and December? How long until not only are many fewer tickets sold but the price has to go through the floor to even get those tickets for the conference games sold? There are others on this board who I know are much more well-versed in the economics of the program and what it is supposed to do for the whole athletic department, but allowing the flagship/money boat to sink cannot be sustainable.
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,402
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Post by iowa80 on Feb 6, 2022 17:40:51 GMT -5
A few second opinions/observations from courtside today, and from the area for a while now: (1) Dante indeed seemed VERY uninterested in playing hard (bad body language spot on by the Provy announcing crew). How the staff couldn't find time for Beard is simply beyond me. (2) Haven't seen this commented on, but Mutombo checked out energy-wise too as the game slipped away. At least one fast break he all but lollygagged back on D in an obvious "why try?" moment. Maybe he just isn't in shape but it looked like a lack of interest to me (and to two guys I was with, one of who was a D1 player who REALLY knows hoops). I think this bodes very ill for the team mentality going forward, which is really a shame both for the team's outlook and for the enjoyment of the players as a whole. (3) Bynum indeed did not seem like a big time talent at Prep. Solid ball-player, yes, but even St. Joe's looked like a bit of a stretch for his size and skills. In college he remade his body and his game became much more solid along with it -- so props to him for keeping at it and climbing! But who among us is surprised we could make a Providence sixth man (at best) look like the biggest local miss since Josh Hart? I don’t intend for this to cover everybody (e.g., Aminu) but there were signs of “quit” today. It’s been nice to be able to say repeatedly that the team played hard all the way even in losses, but I did not see that against PC. They’ve played a heavy schedule and it may be taking a toll. Certainly there’s no reason for Beard to not get more run.
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Feb 6, 2022 17:57:37 GMT -5
Very poetic that a 5'10 Georgetown Prep grad dropped a career high on us today
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 6, 2022 18:04:20 GMT -5
That hurts!
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,373
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Post by prhoya on Feb 6, 2022 20:41:26 GMT -5
This game was less about coaching and more about fatigue. The team is physically and mentally worn out. Georgetown finished the game shooting 1 for 12 in the final 7:34. That's not to say Beard, Clark, and Billingsley should play more--they should. But as a team they are gassed right now. Four of the next five on the road. Fatigue is about coaching, roster/playing time management, strength and conditioning, etc… What to expect in the coming weeks? If Pat doesn’t use more players, including Azinge, and continues to demand fast play from his offense, we’re going to see the same results.
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Post by hsaxon on Feb 6, 2022 20:42:31 GMT -5
That was tough to watch - When Stephen Bardo said in the pregame that we needed to hit 13 3s or more to win, I couldn't help but laugh out loud. Not because he's wrong, but rather how obvious it is to everyone that's our only chance. Notwithstanding we've only hit 13 3s twice this season, one when Kaiden hit 10 and the other was against Providence, when we lost anyway.
- Even in real time, the first half felt a little like fools gold. We were getting zero points in the half court offense, the only way we were able to score was in transition and hitting 3s on the secondary break. That was actually the best we looked on the break, but there was nothing doing in the halfcourt. Was it realistic to expect our defense to force another 8 turnovers in the 2nd half? There had to be an adjustment to get something going in the halfcourt and it wasn't there. So when the defensive turnovers dried up, it was game over
- Providence halfcourt defensive plan was really simple, switch every screen 1-4. On side ballscreens, ice them and force to the side. On middle ball screens, blitz the ball handler. We did NOTHING to really counter. Flip the direction of the side screen and have Dante snake into the middle one time. Feign a screen on a 1-4 ball screen and cause some confusion about whether you should switch. Instead we were forced into one on ones and we didn't have the skill to consistently make them pay. We committed four straight turnovers at one point, I think all of them were live ball stolen out of our hands.
- You literally saw the energy drain out of them. The defensive energy waned once the offense stalled out. It was curtains from there. At times we were literally chucking shots because if we tried to do anything else we'd turn it over.
- I don't have the energy to defend Dante today, and he was generally terrible. Even when he had Watson or Croswell on a switch, there's no fear of his jumper so they're playing so far off they can block his drives to the hoop. Its tough for him to create shots for others when there's just no fear of him with the ball in his hands. This board wants there to be more to Beard than there is, and that's fine (two more turnovers in four minutes). But even I can see that Beard should've played the last 5 minutes of garbage time to keep him engaged and get him experience. Ewing even went to a lineup without Dante or Beard, not that it fared any better.
I'm telling myself we can get one of the Creighton games because it's tough to beat a team twice in three days. But that's pretty much all I'm holding onto, DePaul is playing hard and making progress, we're not going to be favored in those. And again that's really just for the players. 1-18 vs. 0-19 doesn't really make a difference big picture just want them to get one reprieve from this onslaught and avoid record books.
I feel very badly for the players, coaches and staff. This season has been mentally, emotionally and psychologically debilitating.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 6, 2022 22:30:34 GMT -5
I have to think the incredibly senseless turnovers - players getting the ball just pulled out of their hands, passes to nothing but air, guys having balls pass through their hands like they were ghosts - are a clear sign that we are tanking to make sure we get the #1 pick in the draft this summer.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Feb 6, 2022 22:59:09 GMT -5
Somebody knows something. At least I hope they do. Update: they did not know something I think big money rolled in thinking the Hoyas would put up a fight in the 1st and 2nd half Boy were they ever fooled.
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