prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 17, 2022 0:49:52 GMT -5
Updated after this game:
Here’s Patrick Ewing’s BE coaching record vs.:
Jordan (Butler): 4-5 (home 1-4, away 3-1) Hurley (UConn): 0-2 (h 0-1, a 0-1) MacDermott (Creighton): 3-6 (h 1-3, a 1-3, n 1-0) Leitao (DePaul): 4-3 (h 2-1, a 2-2) Stubblefield (DePaul): 0-0 Wojciechowski (Marquette) 2-6 (h 0-4, a 1-2, n 1-0) Smart (Marquette): 0-1 (h 0-1, a 0-0) Cooley (Providence): 3-4 (h 2-2, a 1-2) Willard (Seton Hall): 4-6 (h 3-1, a 0-4, n 1-1) Mullin (SJU): 3-2 (h 1-1, a 2-0, n 0-1) Anderson (SJU): 3-3 (h 2-0, a 1-2, n 0-1) Wright (Villanova): 2-7 (h 1-3, a 0-4, n 1-0) Mack (Xavier): 0-2 (h 0-1, a 0-1) Steele (Xavier): 2-3 (h 2-1, a 0-2)
Big East regular season record: 2017-18 (5-13) = .278 2018-19 (9-9) = .500 2019-20 (5-13) = .278 2020-21 (7-9) = .438 2021-22 (0-3) = .000 BET (4-3) = .571
BE regular season w/ BET: 30-50 (h 15-23, a 11-24, n 4-3) = .375 BE regular season w/o BET: 26-47 (h 15-23, a 11-24) = .356
Notes Craig Esherick’s BE record (1999-2004): ---BE overall 46-59 (.438); BE reg. sea. 41–53 (.436); BET 5-6 (.454) John Thompson III’s BE record (2005-2017): ---BE overall 146-106 (.579); BE reg. sea. 131–94 (.580); BET 15-12 (.555)
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Just Cos
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Eat 'em up Hoyas
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Post by Just Cos on Jan 17, 2022 2:33:34 GMT -5
I’m as optimistic as they come but what tangibles are there from this season to warrant hope? And what is there to give hope about a competitive team next season?
Defense just continues to kill me. I’m no expert but I just want to go to a practice a yell my face off about defensive pressure, not committing, communicating, and just basic fundamentals. I’m lost on seeing a future where the defense looks remotely close to what I would expect.
Offense is not the E pass the ball around the three point line, but I couldn’t tell someone what our offense is but pro-based and creating looks and we don’t do that well. I’ve watched over and over and at it’s best I see what looks like a scheme but honestly it just feels like poorly executed iso.
I’m just so depressed about the state of the program. These student athletes are clearly fighting to the end. I don’t think these are the players that get us back to relevancy. I don’t think this is the coaching staff that gets us back to relevancy. But I love the Hoyas and I love all the effort. I’m always going to support the team and I wish I saw a path to relevancy that didn’t involve the nuke button…but how to you not hit it if we only get 1-2 big East wins?
I wanted the Ewing plan to work…so badly.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 17, 2022 10:38:07 GMT -5
I am not going to write a lengthy post on this game, as it will be full of negative things, and others have more than amply stated them. I am truly at a loss to see how our program can fall to the level where we put out a performance like this. Not only is this the worst team of the Ewing era (and probably since the 1970s or earlier), but by a significant margin. I feel bad for the players, because I think they can definitely play better than this as a group, and they are being failed.
And, before people yell "COVID!" and "young team!" I will grant you that. But COVID is a problem across the country, many programs, including those in the Big East have had COVID problems, and while we may not be the most experienced team out there, plenty of similarly young or younger teams put out a product that's better than what we have done against Marquette, Butler, and St. Johns.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 17, 2022 10:49:59 GMT -5
While the COVID issue is a legitimate reason for some of the poor play by the team, it is an issue that all the teams in the Big East have had to deal with to some degree and have found a way to get beyond the issue better than the Hoyas. Hopefully the guys can continue to fight through and show improvement every game.
I don't know how much the team is practicing and/or how many players they have at each practice, but the team did seem almost unprepared in the St John's game. It was not a surprise that St John's would press for most of the game and the Hoyas still struggled with that. Their offense was very stagnant for long stretches of the game, which is really frustrating to watch. Both of those things are surprising in some ways, because the team for the last few years have dealt with pressure much better and they usually could execute their offenses sets with more precision. Defense was the issue, more than offense.
I do think the team has some talented players, but they certainly have not gelled as a team this season
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 17, 2022 11:16:27 GMT -5
I did want to chime in with one more thought since it's a game-specific observation. On offense, there were a lot of possessions where the 4 off-ball guys were essentially just standing still watching the ball handler, or in some cases, there was a half-hearted screen set that the ball handler either did not use, or that wasn't successful. I am truly having a hard time figuring out what we are doing.
I assume that Ewing and the staff are NOT teaching the guys to just stand around and watch on offense. The fact that Ewing always yells "MOVE!" is a good indication of that. So, why aren't we moving the ball and why aren't we running the offense (whatever it is, unclear to me). Ewing has to be able to look at this product and see that it is problematic (heck, he basically admitted so in his last press conference before walking out). So, my only conclusion is that whatever "teaching" is happening just isn't getting through to our guys.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 17, 2022 11:28:12 GMT -5
I did want to chime in with one more thought since it's a game-specific observation. On offense, there were a lot of possessions where the 4 off-ball guys were essentially just standing still watching the ball handler, or in some cases, there was a half-hearted screen set that the ball handler either did not use, or that wasn't successful. I am truly having a hard time figuring out what we are doing. I assume that Ewing and the staff are NOT teaching the guys to just stand around and watch on offense. The fact that Ewing always yells "MOVE!" is a good indication of that. So, why aren't we moving the ball and why aren't we running the offense (whatever it is, unclear to me). Ewing has to be able to look at this product and see that it is problematic (heck, he basically admitted so in his last press conference before walking out). So, my only conclusion is that whatever "teaching" is happening just isn't getting through to our guys. In the first half, the high screen set by the center—usually Tim—was the primary “movement” but it did not result in anything on the roll or when the ball handler—usually Dante—simply kept the ball.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 17, 2022 13:10:28 GMT -5
Interesting to hear this from Mike Anderson, which is very similar to what we heard from Shaka Smart after the Marquette game. Wonder if all these deflections are a function of poor ballhandling/passing, easy offense to read, or some combination thereof... On what the difference was in today’s win… “Our team defense was the biggest difference in this game. We deflected a lot of passes and those 50/50 balls that are big in games, we came up with them. It led to some transition action for us, as well. We made our free throws tonight. That’s something we hadn’t been doing. We did a lot of good things and we have to package it up and continue to do it.” Also found this quote pretty enlightening (fairly damning for our strength/conditioning program): "Our guys came out and defensively established what we wanted to do. We wanted the game to be up-tempo and try to make Georgetown use some conditioning." redstormsports.com/sports/2022/1/16/postgame-quotes-st-johns-mens-basketball-vs-georgetown
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 17, 2022 13:31:02 GMT -5
Interesting to hear this from Mike Anderson, which is very similar to what we heard from Shaka Smart after the Marquette game. Wonder if all these deflections are a function of poor ballhandling/passing, easy offense to read, or some combination thereof... On what the difference was in today’s win… “Our team defense was the biggest difference in this game. We deflected a lot of passes and those 50/50 balls that are big in games, we came up with them. It led to some transition action for us, as well. We made our free throws tonight. That’s something we hadn’t been doing. We did a lot of good things and we have to package it up and continue to do it.” Also found this quote pretty enlightening (fairly damning for our strength/conditioning program: "Our guys came out and defensively established what we wanted to do. We wanted the game to be up-tempo and try to make Georgetown use some conditioning." redstormsports.com/sports/2022/1/16/postgame-quotes-st-johns-mens-basketball-vs-georgetownTaking care of the ball has been an issue with the Hoyas for the last few years. If they were playing at a really fast pace and always in transition, you can understand some of the turnovers, but there are far too many turnovers caused by just being too casual with the ball in the half court. Against St John's, on the few occasions when the Hoya defense led to a turnover and a transition opportunity, they ended up throwing the ball away and not even getting a shot. Those mistakes really kill any type of momentum the team is trying to create. I am not sure if it is not a focus in practice or what the issue is, but taking care of the ball and having good possessions that lead to makable shots needs to become a priority for the team
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 17, 2022 13:31:09 GMT -5
Interesting to hear this from Mike Anderson, which is very similar to what we heard from Shaka Smart after the Marquette game. Wonder if all these deflections are a function of poor ballhandling/passing, easy offense to read, or some combination thereof... On what the difference was in today’s win… “Our team defense was the biggest difference in this game. We deflected a lot of passes and those 50/50 balls that are big in games, we came up with them. It led to some transition action for us, as well. We made our free throws tonight. That’s something we hadn’t been doing. We did a lot of good things and we have to package it up and continue to do it.” Also found this quote pretty enlightening ( fairly damning for our strength/conditioning program:"Our guys came out and defensively established what we wanted to do. We wanted the game to be up-tempo and try to make Georgetown use some conditioning." redstormsports.com/sports/2022/1/16/postgame-quotes-st-johns-mens-basketball-vs-georgetownThis has been an issue long before PE arrived, unfortunately...
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 17, 2022 16:32:26 GMT -5
I did want to chime in with one more thought since it's a game-specific observation. On offense, there were a lot of possessions where the 4 off-ball guys were essentially just standing still watching the ball handler, or in some cases, there was a half-hearted screen set that the ball handler either did not use, or that wasn't successful. I am truly having a hard time figuring out what we are doing. I assume that Ewing and the staff are NOT teaching the guys to just stand around and watch on offense. The fact that Ewing always yells "MOVE!" is a good indication of that. So, why aren't we moving the ball and why aren't we running the offense (whatever it is, unclear to me). Ewing has to be able to look at this product and see that it is problematic (heck, he basically admitted so in his last press conference before walking out). So, my only conclusion is that whatever "teaching" is happening just isn't getting through to our guys. This may be too simplistic but it’s an offensive scheme based on getting into the lane to collapse the defense until that happens there will be a lot of standing around by the off-ball players… My feelings have always been that the program doesn’t have the personnel to run a scheme like this on a consistent level… The staff can yell “move” all they want but I would ask to where?
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 17, 2022 16:49:11 GMT -5
I did want to chime in with one more thought since it's a game-specific observation. On offense, there were a lot of possessions where the 4 off-ball guys were essentially just standing still watching the ball handler, or in some cases, there was a half-hearted screen set that the ball handler either did not use, or that wasn't successful. I am truly having a hard time figuring out what we are doing. I assume that Ewing and the staff are NOT teaching the guys to just stand around and watch on offense. The fact that Ewing always yells "MOVE!" is a good indication of that. So, why aren't we moving the ball and why aren't we running the offense (whatever it is, unclear to me). Ewing has to be able to look at this product and see that it is problematic (heck, he basically admitted so in his last press conference before walking out). So, my only conclusion is that whatever "teaching" is happening just isn't getting through to our guys. This may be too simplistic but it’s an offensive scheme based on getting into the lane to collapse the defense until that happens there will be a lot of standing around by the off-ball players… My feelings have always been that the program doesn’t have the personnel to run a scheme like this on a consistent level… The staff can yell “move” all they want but I would ask to where? Ewing has tried to run a NBA style offense since he arrived. That type of offense does tend to have guys spaced on the floor standing around on the perimeter waiting for one guy to beat his defender, or for a successful pick and roll to cause the defense to rotate/help and rotate, which should leave the other players open. This is different from some o the more college centric offenses, that rely on more off ball motion/action to help create passing options and more general player movement and cutting. One system is not necessarily better than another, and both are used often in the college game, but you really need to make sure you have the personnel to run that NBA type of offense. You need guards who can break down defenders off the dribble or are very effect creating space in the Pick and Roll and then surround them with good shooters. Dante does an Ok job sometimes breaking down his defender one on one, but he is just an average pick and roll player at this point. That causes the offense to get stagnant at times as guys watch someone dribble for 8-10 seconds. Last year that offensive philosophy was complimented by having a post player in Wahab, who other teams needed to contend with and usually did not want to leave one on one in the post. This year the Hoyas have not shown much of a commitment to using any of the centers that way, so it has limited some of the actions they run. As I said, both systems can work, but I would like to see some more off ball action to help free up passing lanes and to get the offense and the ball moving easier with the players on this team
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hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyaguy on Jan 17, 2022 17:16:17 GMT -5
This may be too simplistic but it’s an offensive scheme based on getting into the lane to collapse the defense until that happens there will be a lot of standing around by the off-ball players… My feelings have always been that the program doesn’t have the personnel to run a scheme like this on a consistent level… The staff can yell “move” all they want but I would ask to where? Ewing has tried to run a NBA style offense since he arrived. That type of offense does tend to have guys spaced on the floor standing around on the perimeter waiting for one guy to beat his defender, or for a successful pick and roll to cause the defense to rotate/help and rotate, which should leave the other players open. This is different from some o the more college centric offenses, that rely on more off ball motion/action to help create passing options and more general player movement and cutting. One system is not necessarily better than another, and both are used often in the college game, but you really need to make sure you have the personnel to run that NBA type of offense. You need guards who can break down defenders off the dribble or are very effect creating space in the Pick and Roll and then surround them with good shooters. Dante does an Ok job sometimes breaking down his defender one on one, but he is just an average pick and roll player at this point. That causes the offense to get stagnant at times as guys watch someone dribble for 8-10 seconds. Last year that offensive philosophy was complimented by having a post player in Wahab, who other teams needed to contend with and usually did not want to leave one on one in the post. This year the Hoyas have not shown much of a commitment to using any of the centers that way, so it has limited some of the actions they run. As I said, both systems can work, but I would like to see some more off ball action to help free up passing lanes and to get the offense and the ball moving easier with the players on this team Yeah the lack of ability to recognize the deficiencies and make changes instead of having everyone just stand around is what kills me especially when our offense has been decent in other years but I would prefer some X’s and O’s so we can actually inbound the ball
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Jan 18, 2022 16:07:18 GMT -5
To be fair/honest, I do not remember the last time DePaul won the BET or made the NCAA Tournament but this year I think DePaul can sweep us....wow the bottom is falling out.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 18, 2022 17:12:59 GMT -5
Since DePaul joined the BE in 2005, GU has won two BE Tournaments (2007, 2021).
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