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Post by teddy16 on Nov 21, 2021 16:00:05 GMT -5
i agree with most of your analysis - except for lax. cornell. princeton and yale all have won nat'l titles since last time we were in final 4 in that sport. last time we played yale in '19 in 1st or 2nd rd of ncaa's they completely kicked our ass (that was '19 - ivies suspended all sports in '20-;21 as you know). we would be middle of pack at best in ivy lax and yes based on our recent scores/results in hoops this year (yale beat siena by 40 and we lost to powerhouse dartmouth- we'd be middle of pack in basketball this year,
my point on football is we do it on the cheap and we lose. and we lose big. it's often embarassing (i still give credit to the kids who commit and play their haerts out). we need to do something different and really commit to the sport to have a chance at winning. if we aren't going to do that and match our peers (scholarships and coach compensation etc..,) - we should spend the football $ elsewhere (do i want GU to drop football altogether - - Hell no, i want GU to finally get behind winning like fordham, Holy Cross, colgate and Lafayette (now) are doing. we have the resources (none of those schools have anywhere near the $ generator that our hoops program has and we have far bigger endowment and "if" the school would get behind the program i am sure alumni would up their support as well. But, GU wont do it... they never have
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 21, 2021 18:30:33 GMT -5
The administration is never going to get behind the program. Not sure why we still play the game other than "tradition".
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Post by Problem of Dog on Nov 21, 2021 20:45:32 GMT -5
We have this exact same discussion every year and nothing has changed to make the answer any different: either we spend the money to be competitive (we won't) or we shouldn't expect anything different and should seriously consider shutting down the program if it's really about winning, at all.
I don't think it's about winning (the university doesn't care, I'm sure the players and coaches do), so it's unnecessary to have this conversation every year. And because it's not about winning, we're not going to do anything different, let alone shut down the program.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 21, 2021 21:21:03 GMT -5
We have this exact same discussion every year and nothing has changed to make the answer any different: either we spend the money to be competitive (we won't) or we shouldn't expect anything different and should seriously consider shutting down the program if it's really about winning, at all. It's not about the money. Here are the 2019 operating expenses in the PL. A big part of the difference is in air travel to non-conference games which GU doesn't do. Colgate: $861,340 (at Air Force) Lehigh: $820,607 (at UC Davis) Fordham: $727,322 (at Ball St.) Bucknell: $625,553 Holy Cross: $605,935 Lafayette: $576,743 Georgetown $407,540 If Georgetown merely needed $200K a year to be competitive with Holy Cross, they can do that, but if Georgetown can't recruit the same players Holy Cross does because of the PL's rules on SAT's, that's a problem money can't fix. And FWIW, 74% of men's operating expenses at Georgetown goes to men's basketball.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Nov 21, 2021 21:33:36 GMT -5
We have this exact same discussion every year and nothing has changed to make the answer any different: either we spend the money to be competitive (we won't) or we shouldn't expect anything different and should seriously consider shutting down the program if it's really about winning, at all. It's not about the money. Here are the 2019 operating expenses in the PL. A big part of the difference is in air travel to non-conference games which GU doesn't do. Colgate: $861,340 (at Air Force) Lehigh: $820,607 (at UC Davis) Fordham: $727,322 (at Ball St.) Bucknell: $625,553 Holy Cross: $605,935 Lafayette: $576,743 Georgetown $407,540 If Georgetown merely needed $200K a year to be competitive with Holy Cross, they can do that, but if Georgetown can't recruit the same players Holy Cross does because of the PL's rules on SAT's, that's a problem money can't fix. And FWIW, 74% of men's operating expenses at Georgetown now go to men's basketball. And WHY is the Patriot League the only measure of success? Can Georgetown do no better? I take it that "operating expenses" don't include scholarships? How much would it take to be competitive in terms of scholarships? That's the rub, right? The academic indexing ain't changing. They aren't going to make an exception just for us. So either we add enough scholarships so that enough kids that meet the high standard are incentivized to come or we add even more scholarships and join a more competitive league. Or....we do what we have been doing.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Nov 22, 2021 22:03:19 GMT -5
We have this exact same discussion every year and nothing has changed to make the answer any different: either we spend the money to be competitive (we won't) or we shouldn't expect anything different and should seriously consider shutting down the program if it's really about winning, at all. It's not about the money. Here are the 2019 operating expenses in the PL. A big part of the difference is in air travel to non-conference games which GU doesn't do. Colgate: $861,340 (at Air Force) Lehigh: $820,607 (at UC Davis) Fordham: $727,322 (at Ball St.) Bucknell: $625,553 Holy Cross: $605,935 Lafayette: $576,743 Georgetown $407,540 If Georgetown merely needed $200K a year to be competitive with Holy Cross, they can do that, but if Georgetown can't recruit the same players Holy Cross does because of the PL's rules on SAT's, that's a problem money can't fix. And FWIW, 74% of men's operating expenses at Georgetown goes to men's basketball. It absolutely is about the money, otherwise we'd have better facilities and scholarships. I don't know how you can post that list and still say it's not about the money.
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Post by puppydog100 on Nov 23, 2021 8:44:19 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Reed,
There are really only two choices, either put together a plan and provide the resources so GU football can become competitive; or shut the program down.
I am willing to provide my support, show me a viable plan.
Looking forward to your reply.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Nov 23, 2021 8:49:46 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Reed, There are really only two choices, either put together a plan and provide the resources so GU football can become competitive; or shut the program down. I am willing to provide my support, show me a viable plan. Looking forward to your reply. Have you actually said this to him?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 23, 2021 9:48:33 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Reed, There are really only two choices, either put together a plan and provide the resources so GU football can become competitive; or shut the program down. I am willing to provide my support, show me a viable plan. Looking forward to your reply. Did you say this about the baseball, women's basketball, field hockey, men's and women's tennis, softball, squash, men's and women's swimming and volleyball teams as well? Because there's a very specific reason why each of these sports is where they are, including football.
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Post by reformation on Nov 23, 2021 14:17:10 GMT -5
If an outsider replaces Jack as president all of gtwn's sports will be looked at--mothing will change until then
Looking at Bball alone we cant beat Dartmouth(men) or Columbia(women) given the resources we allocate- the strategy deserves a serious review.
its not just a money thing--Instutional goal setting + accountability play a big part--we are vague on the first one and non existent on the second-hence the results across many sports except where we luck into having a great coach
money is also a part and obviously related to getting/retaining top coaches
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Post by teddy16 on Nov 24, 2021 15:40:03 GMT -5
i soooo agree with the comment "money is related to attracting and retaining top coaches" and top athletes want to play for top coaches (say all you want about the academic prestige of GU and no matter how true that is when it comes to athletics - all else being somewhat equal - its the winnning coaches who prevail on the field and off the field). Our new Cooper field is a major uptick from the past but is that going to tilt the field in attracting new top recruits? was the TAC a real attraction for Hoop recruits? its debatable. the Tac and Cooper field are adequate compared to peer programs in respective sports but not necessarily superior (in fact they are not). i would also support the program if Mr Lee Reed revealed or devised a plan he'd initiate to allow GU to win in and effectively compete in football. but, as we have analyzed - the status quo aint working and its totally unrealistic to think it will work in the future. whats the incentive to support it? in order to get more $ (from alums anyway) and to then spend more $ (say on coaches - to upgrade in that category), Reed would have to communicate and identify a real strategy there and a commitment to compete. would he energize the alumni base and generate more donations - i would think 'yes'. when HC hired its new HC a few years ago the AD there sponsored a # dinners with alums to fire up the base. and, it worked. the alumni embraced the new coach and totally believed he would turn the program around. in fact, the coach laid out a plan as to how he would win there. it has happened (up until that move by HC - we actually were competitive with the Cross. (btw- the Cross did not increase schollies - neither has Fordham, which has also has turned its program around) i dont see Reed truly caring enough about football. we are stuck in the abyss. simply fielding a team is satisfactory to DeGoia and Reed. quite evident
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Post by puppydog100 on Nov 25, 2021 13:08:40 GMT -5
DFW HOYA,
And what is the very specific reason that football is where it is?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 25, 2021 16:05:25 GMT -5
DFW HOYA, And what is the very specific reason that football is where it is? Working on that article. Should be done in two weeks, I'll post the link here.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Nov 30, 2021 15:53:00 GMT -5
I'll throw this out real quick. For a team that didn't play at all last year, the Hoyas had their chances this year. We had our opener cancelled. We weren't really competitive against the top teams we played in Harvard, Holy Cross & Fordham. We started way to slow against Morgan St., Columbia & Colgate. And I don't know what the hell happened in the last two games.
I think coach Sgarlata is being really creative with recruiting around the financial constraints he has relative to our competition. Despite that effort, I think a great year is probably a 7-3 record with losses to the top one or two patriot league teams and a split with our Ivy schedule. Gotta win out those other non-con games and create some buzz around campus. It should be a great game day event and I would like to see free kegs in the end zone area to incentivize student turnout and provide a great social outlet on campus. It doesn't have to be strictly about winning and losing and the potential is there for a really nice community event every Saturday in the Fall.
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Post by teddy16 on Dec 3, 2021 14:50:04 GMT -5
HC and Fordham will destroy us every year (thats 2 losses). columbia is serious about their program thats 3 losses. we never beat colgate and Lehigh (thats 2 more losses) and Lafayette has also stepped up its program. i see 6 losses out of the box almost every year for us. Because we are content being mediocre. 7-3 and keeping status quo (is very unlikely). 2-8 or 3-9 if we schedule likes of Del St and Marist is where we are at. Commmunity event is fine and Cooper field is right in middle of campus - that's all grand for sure, and maybe we play some games close as we do from time to time but winning ..... dont see it
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 5, 2021 11:52:32 GMT -5
Gonna put a pin in this one for future discussion...
Short version, for folks tossing out 'top-down reviews' and 'strategic plans' and the like: universities do not live by Lombardi's dictum that winning is the only thing. The role of athletics on any campus, but especially one like Georgetown, is about a lot more than W-L.
That often - understandably - frustrates those who do prioritize winning above all or most things. But the whole idea of 4for40 is that the 40 matters a heck of a lot more than the 4.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Dec 5, 2021 21:34:02 GMT -5
Gonna put a pin in this one for future discussion... Short version, for folks tossing out 'top-down reviews' and 'strategic plans' and the like: universities do not live by Lombardi's dictum that winning is the only thing. The role of athletics on any campus, but especially one like Georgetown, is about a lot more than W-L. That often - understandably - frustrates those who do prioritize winning above all or most things. But the whole idea of 4for40 is that the 40 matters a heck of a lot more than the 4. This kids who stayed on campus all four years graduated in four years? Or is this every matriculant in 2011 from the football recruiting class?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 5, 2021 22:04:49 GMT -5
This kids who stayed on campus all four years graduated in four years? Or is this every matriculant in 2011 from the football recruiting class? GSR is based on student-athletes who entered college as freshmen between 2011-2014 and allows for the removal of those individuals from who left Georgetown in good academic standing from the denominator. It only counts those "who received athletics aid from the school", however you define this. The 2014-15 entering class (Sgarlata's first full recruiting class as HC, the senior class of 2019) had a score of 100%. The four year moving average(2011-2014) was 94%. However, the exact number is not clear, only listed as "greater than 15". Georgetown doesn't announce transfers and I don't have any names that came up in Google as has having left GU to play somewhere else from that year. web3.ncaa.org/aprsearch/public_reports/inst2021/251.pdf?v=1638492860797
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 14, 2021 23:45:58 GMT -5
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coach98
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Post by coach98 on Dec 24, 2021 15:55:30 GMT -5
How do you think we could improve the gameday experience? Do you think that would attract people from the community?
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