Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 17:15:47 GMT -5
There's only what, 12 to 15 five stars a year right? If we can land one a year or even one every other year, I say that is a success! Depends on the recruiting site. Anywhere from 24-29. 29? That sounds like a lot! Which site would have more than 20?
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Omega
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by Omega on Sept 16, 2021 17:31:57 GMT -5
Why bother with these folks. These are the same folks who settled for a job they knew they could do rather than go after their dream job, these folks settled for a spouse rather than going after what they really wanted.
That attitude of going after players you know you can get is loser attitude and the silliest thing Ive heard. So if a five star expresses interest in GU, Coach should say, we not interested...
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Sept 16, 2021 18:22:41 GMT -5
This is surely sarcasm, right? Not sarcasm - how is it anything but accurate? Well, incredibly shortsighted and disingenuous would certainly qualify as “anything”, again, by your standards. But is it abnormal? Are your expectations healthy or are they based in fantasy? Do you think you have the ability to discern actual talent from rankings and stars and what beat writers stringing along from one-off job to one-off job with no real connections think? Or even what qualified analysts think?
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Sept 16, 2021 18:26:57 GMT -5
If you go by 247 sports the entire BE Conference has only landed 2 5 stars since Ewing has become coach. Quinerly who was borderline (#29) and Aminu. By that logic (the Big East isn't competitive enough to land 5 stars), why does Ewing keep wasting his time/resources recruiting guys with no chance of ending up here? I think you misunderstand logic 😅
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 18:28:29 GMT -5
Depends on the recruiting site. Anywhere from 24-29. 29? That sounds like a lot! Which site would have more than 20? All of them. 247 sports lists 29.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Sept 16, 2021 18:30:33 GMT -5
Looks like Thamel was pretty spot on with his commentary. Also, I believe it was John Wooden who once said "don't mistake activity with achievement". Lol you must be some AR/VR simulation living in a different world. As far as head coaches go, Ewing is a top tier recruiter (in the BE). The fact that you assumed “coming from NBA means landing 5 stars on day one for a cratering program” is the weirdest stance ever. That’s not how recruiting works. Beyond going too deep, the reason you’re seeing our recruiting pick up is cause the staff finally has years (meaning the kids were recruited all throughout high school and not just their senior years), instead of just months, of a relationship with these recruits. These kids are mostly picking coaching staffs and teammates to play, and not the name on the front of their jerseys…
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2021 18:32:18 GMT -5
29? That sounds like a lot! Which site would have more than 20? All of them. 247 sports lists 29. Thanks! I will check that out.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Sept 16, 2021 18:34:53 GMT -5
That's fine if you want to take that stance but then you have to also agree to say all Big East coaches have been putrid in that same timeframe and have equally wasted their time pursuing 5 star recruits. I assume that is your position, correct? Results on the court are what matter, not recruiting rankings. Patrick Ewing is 62-59 in four years at the helm, with 1 NCAA Tournament appearance. He's one of the highest paid coaches in the Big East for a program with enormous financial resources compared to most of his peers. That is my position - he's a mediocre coach who has recruited poorly overall. So, by this logic, all Pat has to do is win a little more and he’s good in your eyes. He need not win any championships or the league or anything for you to respect him because then, by your logic, your argument would be nullified. He’s not the only coach not winning. I can guarantee you all 11 BE coaches are more concerned with winning games that matter rather than an extra few each regular season. In case you were wondering they only hand out one big East title a year. Not gonna let you off the hook, is Jay Wright a bum because he didn’t win the crown this year and lost to Pat when it actually mattered? We’re they not the more talented and experienced team? In case you haven’t noticed, for more than half of his tenure Ewing has actually has his teams perform greater than the sum of their parts. If you can’t open your eyes and see that for yourself maybe there’s some voice on Twitter or something you’d rather take to. Either way if you open your eyes you might learn something about the job our head coach has been doing.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Sept 16, 2021 18:36:34 GMT -5
Why bother with these folks. These are the same folks who settled for a job they knew they could do rather than go after their dream job, these folks settled for a spouse rather than going after what they really wanted. That attitude of going after players you know you can get is loser attitude and the silliest thing Ive heard. So if a five star expresses interest in GU, Coach should say, we not interested... Well said. The only reason I’m bothering momentarily is because I still have hope that our fellow man can do better if they know better.
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Sept 16, 2021 23:22:32 GMT -5
Show me one first time head coach in history without a shady past that landed multiple 5 stars year-in and year-out in their first 5 seasons at a program Juwan Howard, to name a recent one. Doesn't fit my criteria at all. I said year in and year out. He has two 5 star recruits to date...both in this class with Houstan and Diabate. Dickinson was not a 5 star guy. Isaiah Todd was never going to school. That means Juwan Howard has ONE more 5 star recruit that Patrick Ewing.
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Sept 16, 2021 23:30:00 GMT -5
Show me one first time head coach in history without a shady past that landed multiple 5 stars year-in and year-out in their first 5 seasons at a program Roy Williams Roy Williams? I'm afraid that's before my time. Maybe you can school me on what Roy Williams recruiting classes looked like at Kansas back in the late 80s.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Sept 17, 2021 8:50:30 GMT -5
Roy Williams? I'm afraid that's before my time. Maybe you can school me on what Roy Williams recruiting classes looked like at Kansas back in the late 80s. So you're not interested in recent or old examples that disprove your point - got it. Must be nice to just put blinders on, take a stance, and say that's the way it is!
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Post by thejerseytornado on Sept 17, 2021 9:54:31 GMT -5
Roy Williams? I'm afraid that's before my time. Maybe you can school me on what Roy Williams recruiting classes looked like at Kansas back in the late 80s. So you're not interested in recent or old examples that disprove your point - got it. Must be nice to just put blinders on, take a stance, and say that's the way it is! I shouldn't keep this going, but going to Kansas in the late 1980s to replace Larry Brown coming off of a National Championship is just a little bit different than going to Georgetown to replace JT3 coming off of multiple years of not making the tournament in the 2010s. Similar arguments can be made about replacing Beilein off of 3 straight sweet 16s at Michigan compared to what Pat came into (and even still, the comparison is 2 5 stars vs 1 5 star so...). Apples, are they like oranges?
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyaboya on Sept 17, 2021 9:59:34 GMT -5
So you're not interested in recent or old examples that disprove your point - got it. Must be nice to just put blinders on, take a stance, and say that's the way it is! I shouldn't keep this going, but going to Kansas in the late 1980s to replace Larry Brown coming off of a National Championship is just a little bit different than going to Georgetown to replace JT3 coming off of multiple years of not making the tournament in the 2010s. Similar arguments can be made about replacing Beilein off of 3 straight sweet 16s at Michigan compared to what Pat came into (and even still, the comparison is 2 5 stars vs 1 5 star so...). Apples, are they like oranges? So if your point is that Ewing shouldn't be expected to recruit 5 stars effectively...why does he keep trying to recruit 5 stars?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Sept 17, 2021 10:32:32 GMT -5
So you're not interested in recent or old examples that disprove your point - got it. Must be nice to just put blinders on, take a stance, and say that's the way it is! I shouldn't keep this going, but going to Kansas in the late 1980s to replace Larry Brown coming off of a National Championship is just a little bit different than going to Georgetown to replace JT3 coming off of multiple years of not making the tournament in the 2010s. Similar arguments can be made about replacing Beilein off of 3 straight sweet 16s at Michigan compared to what Pat came into (and even still, the comparison is 2 5 stars vs 1 5 star so...). Apples, are they like oranges? Honestly, I only threw Williams name out there to mess with the OP since I knew it was his 1st HC job and Kansas always land highly sought after players... As for the Gtown Staff, I don't think recruiting talent has been a big issue at all...
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Sept 17, 2021 11:02:08 GMT -5
I'd argue a very strong "Yes" as it means that resources aren't being spent on other players who we might have a better chance of landing. Ewing's had 5 recruiting cycles and landed one 5-star recruit. That is putrid performance on the recruiting trail, particularly for a guy who when he was hired, many thought recruiting would be a strength. Show me one first time head coach in history without a shady past that landed multiple 5 stars year-in and year-out in their first 5 seasons at a program Jon Scheyer just landed his third 5-star recruit in less than 3 months. basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/five-star-caleb-foster-commits-to-duke
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Post by HometownHoya on Sept 17, 2021 11:12:46 GMT -5
I'm sure Duke has a lovely fan board you can join, they recruit all the DMV players too so you'll be happy there.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Sept 17, 2021 12:02:53 GMT -5
Roy Williams? I'm afraid that's before my time. Maybe you can school me on what Roy Williams recruiting classes looked like at Kansas back in the late 80s. So you're not interested in recent or old examples that disprove your point - got it. Must be nice to just put blinders on, take a stance, and say that's the way it is! No, it was tongue in cheek you clown. It was a polite way of exposing the poster they were responding too lol.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Sept 17, 2021 12:05:11 GMT -5
Curious, wonder if you have the courage to admit how old you are? Could save us all a lot of time. I just assumed I was speaking to someone with fully developed cognitive skills but my bad if not. Would make much more sense.
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Sept 17, 2021 13:39:32 GMT -5
Roy Williams? I'm afraid that's before my time. Maybe you can school me on what Roy Williams recruiting classes looked like at Kansas back in the late 80s. So you're not interested in recent or old examples that disprove your point - got it. Must be nice to just put blinders on, take a stance, and say that's the way it is! LOL. I guess you missed the part where I said MAYBE YOU CAN SCHOOL ME.No argument here. Go enjoy a croissant and continue with your day sir.
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