Defense, Defense, Defense...

[aggypryd]

It took us awhile before the defense started "clicking" last year and it was sooooooo frustrating. I hope the process doesn't take as long this year, but losing Qudus definitely won't help.

[hoyaduck]

Having a normal preseason should help tremendously.

[HometownHoya]

Apr 22, 2021 11:10:40 GMT -5 aggypryd said:

It took us awhile before the defense started "clicking" last year and it was sooooooo frustrating. I hope the process doesn't take as long this year, but losing Qudus definitely won't help.

I think losing Qudus will help. He wasn't much of a defensive quarterback and often got caught out in the PnR (plus couldn't switch). Assuming the defense we saw with Q is exactly what Patrick wants to run, I don't see it taking a step back. While Tim is similiarly less mobile, he is longer so should be able to recover a bit better. Ryan is a great communicator defensively and can control those ahead of him. Plus I think all the guys we have in the backcourt next year will be able to better fight through screens and not need the C to pop on the ball handler as much.


Now that said, I'm pretty sure most of us agree that we didn't see the defense Patrick wants to run. He's shown it at times but then has had to pull it back in to make up for his somewhat immobile Cs. Patrick wants to be able to switch unless there's a 1 on 1 shutdown defensive assignment. King is a more mobile guy that will allow Patrick to switch like he wants to. We don't know what Rice's defense will look like but his length will help if he gets switched onto smaller or bigger guys. Aminu, Riley, and Beard all have the size to switch. Dante has the dog to switch. Don's weakness is defense but he's been working on it. Personally I think we're going to have a more smothering defense next year, we just need to make sure we don't let guys get to the hoop or that the guys defending the corner 3 don't get sucked in too much.

[Deleted]

Apr 22, 2021 11:39:02 GMT -5 HometownHoya said:

Apr 22, 2021 11:10:40 GMT -5 aggypryd said:

It took us awhile before the defense started "clicking" last year and it was sooooooo frustrating. I hope the process doesn't take as long this year, but losing Qudus definitely won't help.

I think losing Qudus will help. He wasn't much of a defensive quarterback and often got caught out in the PnR (plus couldn't switch). Assuming the defense we saw with Q is exactly what Patrick wants to run, I don't see it taking a step back. While Tim is similiarly less mobile, he is longer so should be able to recover a bit better. Ryan is a great communicator defensively and can control those ahead of him. Plus I think all the guys we have in the backcourt next year will be able to better fight through screens and not need the C to pop on the ball handler as much.


Now that said, I'm pretty sure most of us agree that we didn't see the defense Patrick wants to run. He's shown it at times but then has had to pull it back in to make up for his somewhat immobile Cs. Patrick wants to be able to switch unless there's a 1 on 1 shutdown defensive assignment. King is a more mobile guy that will allow Patrick to switch like he wants to. We don't know what Rice's defense will look like but his length will help if he gets switched onto smaller or bigger guys. Aminu, Riley, and Beard all have the size to switch. Dante has the dog to switch. Don's weakness is defense but he's been working on it. Personally I think we're going to have a more smothering defense next year, we just need to make sure we don't let guys get to the hoop or that the guys defending the corner 3 don't get sucked in too much.

I disagree because Q was a beast on the inside.  He was a nightmare blocking shots and grabbing defensive boards.  That's all you want from your center in my opinion.  If you want someone chasing after smaller players, you need to put in a small ball center or a forward.  I hope when King comes in to play the small ball center role, he doesn't get bullied inside by bigger guys.  Matter fact, I hope he only plays center when the other team is playing their smaller guy at the five.

[paranoia2]

The “change up” is a very effective pitch in baseball. It could also benefit the Hoyas defensively next season.

Few minutes of King with aggressive hedge man to man and the opponent may try to drive to the hole. In comes Tim and suddenly there is some major rim protection. Then Mutombo for an even different look. Plenty of fouls to make sure easy layups become a hard foul and 2 FT.

[prhoya]

Apr 22, 2021 11:53:08 GMT -5 paranoia2 said:

The “change up” is a very effective pitch in baseball. It could also benefit the Hoyas defensively next season.

Few minutes of King with aggressive hedge man to man and the opponent may try to drive to the hole. In comes Tim and suddenly there is some major rim protection. Then Mutombo for an even different look. Plenty of fouls to make sure easy layups become a hard foul and 2 FT.

And start with a soft press so that the other team cannot set up offensively with a full clock...

[HometownHoya]

Apr 22, 2021 11:51:06 GMT -5 hoyafansinceewingera said:

Apr 22, 2021 11:39:02 GMT -5 HometownHoya said:

I think losing Qudus will help. He wasn't much of a defensive quarterback and often got caught out in the PnR (plus couldn't switch). Assuming the defense we saw with Q is exactly what Patrick wants to run, I don't see it taking a step back. While Tim is similiarly less mobile, he is longer so should be able to recover a bit better. Ryan is a great communicator defensively and can control those ahead of him. Plus I think all the guys we have in the backcourt next year will be able to better fight through screens and not need the C to pop on the ball handler as much.


Now that said, I'm pretty sure most of us agree that we didn't see the defense Patrick wants to run. He's shown it at times but then has had to pull it back in to make up for his somewhat immobile Cs. Patrick wants to be able to switch unless there's a 1 on 1 shutdown defensive assignment. King is a more mobile guy that will allow Patrick to switch like he wants to. We don't know what Rice's defense will look like but his length will help if he gets switched onto smaller or bigger guys. Aminu, Riley, and Beard all have the size to switch. Dante has the dog to switch. Don's weakness is defense but he's been working on it. Personally I think we're going to have a more smothering defense next year, we just need to make sure we don't let guys get to the hoop or that the guys defending the corner 3 don't get sucked in too much.

I disagree because Q was a beast on the inside.  He was a nightmare blocking shots and grabbing defensive boards.  That's all you want from your center in my opinion.  If you want someone chasing after smaller players, you need to put in a small ball center or a forward.  I hope when King comes in to play the small ball center role, he doesn't get bullied inside by bigger guys.  Matter fact, I hope he only plays center when the other team is playing their smaller guy at the five.

I agree with what you're saying but Tim can step into that role defensively pretty well. He might be a better blocker then Q and can rebound just as well. That's why I don't think we'll see much of a step back losing Q.

Your point about King is part of why I think we will be a better defensive team overall, King does have the size and weight to defend a 5 but like you said, it'll usually be against a smaller 5.

[rhw485]

Apr 22, 2021 11:39:02 GMT -5 HometownHoya said:

Apr 22, 2021 11:10:40 GMT -5 aggypryd said:

It took us awhile before the defense started "clicking" last year and it was sooooooo frustrating. I hope the process doesn't take as long this year, but losing Qudus definitely won't help.

I think losing Qudus will help. He wasn't much of a defensive quarterback and often got caught out in the PnR (plus couldn't switch). Assuming the defense we saw with Q is exactly what Patrick wants to run, I don't see it taking a step back. While Tim is similiarly less mobile, he is longer so should be able to recover a bit better. Ryan is a great communicator defensively and can control those ahead of him. Plus I think all the guys we have in the backcourt next year will be able to better fight through screens and not need the C to pop on the ball handler as much.


Now that said, I'm pretty sure most of us agree that we didn't see the defense Patrick wants to run. He's shown it at times but then has had to pull it back in to make up for his somewhat immobile Cs. Patrick wants to be able to switch unless there's a 1 on 1 shutdown defensive assignment. King is a more mobile guy that will allow Patrick to switch like he wants to. We don't know what Rice's defense will look like but his length will help if he gets switched onto smaller or bigger guys. Aminu, Riley, and Beard all have the size to switch. Dante has the dog to switch. Don's weakness is defense but he's been working on it. Personally I think we're going to have a more smothering defense next year, we just need to make sure we don't let guys get to the hoop or that the guys defending the corner 3 don't get sucked in too much.

I agree with most of what you said, but I'm not sure I've seen anything that makes me think Patrick actually wants to switch any screens.  I personally think he doesn't want to; he wants to play straight up man, and even though we abandoned the hard hedge it felt more begrudgingly than anything else.  Pickett as the 4 would still hard hedge and recover whenever he was in pnr.

Now personally I want to see us run a more switching defense, but I've seen nothing that makes me think Patrick wants to.  There's a chance he's been waiting for a more mobile center to do so, but then I would've expected to see us switching 1-4 and we've very rarely done that in 4 seasons.  If I had to guess, when King's in at center we're going to hard hedge again but we'll see.  And despite all of us questioning whether a zone is possible (especially to help someone like Tim), we've just never seen it deployed unless our centers are in foul trouble (and we have so many that it never really matters).

The biggest change that happened post pause was a massive increase in forced turnovers and decrease in free throw rate.  Bile definitely gets some credit for creating turnovers (despite some miscues in defensive assignment along the way) and Dante's ability to pressure the ball was critical as well.  

[Deleted]

Apr 22, 2021 12:26:02 GMT -5 HometownHoya said:

Apr 22, 2021 11:51:06 GMT -5 hoyafansinceewingera said:

I disagree because Q was a beast on the inside.  He was a nightmare blocking shots and grabbing defensive boards.  That's all you want from your center in my opinion.  If you want someone chasing after smaller players, you need to put in a small ball center or a forward.  I hope when King comes in to play the small ball center role, he doesn't get bullied inside by bigger guys.  Matter fact, I hope he only plays center when the other team is playing their smaller guy at the five.

I agree with what you're saying but Tim can step into that role defensively pretty well. He might be a better blocker then Q and can rebound just as well. That's why I don't think we'll see much of a step back losing Q.

Your point about King is part of why I think we will be a better defensive team overall, King does have the size and weight to defend a 5 but like you said, it'll usually be against a smaller 5.

The one thing that we will have to worry about with Big Timmy is his propensity to foul.  Will coach work with him a lot this summer to help him with his defense to alleviate some of his proclivity to foul? Also, the other thing, though I don't think we will count too heavy on Big Timmy for and that is his inside scoring.   What is his go to move?  Does he have a hook shot?  Is he a bully like Q?  All those things are left to be determined.  However, he can dunk the ball if he can get lift>

He can't match Q in the scoring department!  As a result, we will lose some punch there.  However, he has to be able to flush the ball when he gets it inside and that's going to require some "lift" exercises for him in the offseason to help to get him to explode off two feet for the dunks. 

The main thing that I see from Big Timmy and it will be so sorely needed and that is REBOUND!  Oh one other thing, SHOT BLOCK!  I'm looking forward to Tim's "development".  Betcha never thought you would hear me use that d word before, huhn? 

I definitely think we will be playing King, Big Timmy and Mutombo at the five spot a lot the next year with each guy bringing something unique or somethings they specialize in.  For the first time, we are going to have so much flexibility at the center position as we go away slightly from our philosophy of big man ball. 

King will spread the floor, run the lanes and hit the deep ball, Big Tim will create an inside defensive presence and rebound, Mutombo will hit the midrange shots and post up. 

I am psyched!

[HometownHoya]

Apr 22, 2021 12:29:31 GMT -5 rhw485 said:

Apr 22, 2021 11:39:02 GMT -5 HometownHoya said:

I think losing Qudus will help. He wasn't much of a defensive quarterback and often got caught out in the PnR (plus couldn't switch). Assuming the defense we saw with Q is exactly what Patrick wants to run, I don't see it taking a step back. While Tim is similiarly less mobile, he is longer so should be able to recover a bit better. Ryan is a great communicator defensively and can control those ahead of him. Plus I think all the guys we have in the backcourt next year will be able to better fight through screens and not need the C to pop on the ball handler as much.


Now that said, I'm pretty sure most of us agree that we didn't see the defense Patrick wants to run. He's shown it at times but then has had to pull it back in to make up for his somewhat immobile Cs. Patrick wants to be able to switch unless there's a 1 on 1 shutdown defensive assignment. King is a more mobile guy that will allow Patrick to switch like he wants to. We don't know what Rice's defense will look like but his length will help if he gets switched onto smaller or bigger guys. Aminu, Riley, and Beard all have the size to switch. Dante has the dog to switch. Don's weakness is defense but he's been working on it. Personally I think we're going to have a more smothering defense next year, we just need to make sure we don't let guys get to the hoop or that the guys defending the corner 3 don't get sucked in too much.

I agree with most of what you said, but I'm not sure I've seen anything that makes me think Patrick actually wants to switch any screens.  I personally think he doesn't want to; he wants to play straight up man, and even though we abandoned the hard hedge it felt more begrudgingly than anything else.  Pickett as the 4 would still hard hedge and recover whenever he was in pnr.

Now personally I want to see us run a more switching defense, but I've seen nothing that makes me think Patrick wants to.  There's a chance he's been waiting for a more mobile center to do so, but then I would've expected to see us switching 1-4 and we've very rarely done that in 4 seasons.  If I had to guess, when King's in at center we're going to hard hedge again but we'll see.  And despite all of us questioning whether a zone is possible (especially to help someone like Tim), we've just never seen it deployed unless our centers are in foul trouble (and we have so many that it never really matters).

The biggest change that happened post pause was a massive increase in forced turnovers and decrease in free throw rate.  Bile definitely gets some credit for creating turnovers (despite some miscues in defensive assignment along the way) and Dante's ability to pressure the ball was critical as well.  

Good point about the hard hedge. I guess I must have blacked that out and hope that Patrick has also learned that it doesn't work in College like it does in the NBA.

[hoyas212]

Might be counterintuitive with the upgrades in athleticism coming next season, but wouldn’t mind seeing a 2-3 zone incorporated at times. There could be a lot of length at the top of the zone in non-Harris minutes. It also might help hide the less mobile bigs against a team like Colorado.

[saxagael]

Apr 22, 2021 11:39:02 GMT -5 HometownHoya said:

Apr 22, 2021 11:10:40 GMT -5 aggypryd said:

It took us awhile before the defense started "clicking" last year and it was sooooooo frustrating. I hope the process doesn't take as long this year, but losing Qudus definitely won't help.

I think losing Qudus will help. He wasn't much of a defensive quarterback and often got caught out in the PnR (plus couldn't switch). Assuming the defense we saw with Q is exactly what Patrick wants to run, I don't see it taking a step back. While Tim is similiarly less mobile, he is longer so should be able to recover a bit better. Ryan is a great communicator defensively and can control those ahead of him. Plus I think all the guys we have in the backcourt next year will be able to better fight through screens and not need the C to pop on the ball handler as much.


Now that said, I'm pretty sure most of us agree that we didn't see the defense Patrick wants to run. He's shown it at times but then has had to pull it back in to make up for his somewhat immobile Cs. Patrick wants to be able to switch unless there's a 1 on 1 shutdown defensive assignment. King is a more mobile guy that will allow Patrick to switch like he wants to. We don't know what Rice's defense will look like but his length will help if he gets switched onto smaller or bigger guys. Aminu, Riley, and Beard all have the size to switch. Dante has the dog to switch. Don's weakness is defense but he's been working on it. Personally I think we're going to have a more smothering defense next year, we just need to make sure we don't let guys get to the hoop or that the guys defending the corner 3 don't get sucked in too much.

Dead on calling out the need for a defensive quarterback. This year Bile and Pickett did a great job calling out picks and needed adjustments in front of them. Often it is the center and/or two back players that do this. Bile and Pickett (likely) aren’t back. A didn’t have the ball IQ to do this and was honing other parts of his game. But it is something I’ve seen Mutombo doing and hoping King has some of that as well. Tim has a lot to learn ahead of honing the defense in front of him, so he likely won’t be filling that role. Malcolm was calling things out when he was in, as was Sibley. Tim may be the odd player out and it is something that makes a huge difference for a team’s defense.

[rockhoya]

Apr 22, 2021 11:10:40 GMT -5 aggypryd said:

It took us awhile before the defense started "clicking" last year and it was sooooooo frustrating. I hope the process doesn't take as long this year, but losing Qudus definitely won't help.

Highly disagree. Q was a good defender, but also one of the more overrated ones we’ve had. Our defense will be more than fine. We finished the season ranked 45 on Kenpom. So post covid that number is likely closer to 15-25. We’ve upgraded our defensive talent. I see no reason to worry. As others have mentioned, having more practice time will help. Having as much as the other teams should help.

[rockhoya]

Apr 22, 2021 12:26:02 GMT -5 HometownHoya said:

Apr 22, 2021 11:51:06 GMT -5 hoyafansinceewingera said:

I disagree because Q was a beast on the inside.  He was a nightmare blocking shots and grabbing defensive boards.  That's all you want from your center in my opinion.  If you want someone chasing after smaller players, you need to put in a small ball center or a forward.  I hope when King comes in to play the small ball center role, he doesn't get bullied inside by bigger guys.  Matter fact, I hope he only plays center when the other team is playing their smaller guy at the five.

I agree with what you're saying but Tim can step into that role defensively pretty well. He might be a better blocker then Q and can rebound just as well. That's why I don't think we'll see much of a step back losing Q.

Your point about King is part of why I think we will be a better defensive team overall, King does have the size and weight to defend a 5 but like you said, it'll usually be against a smaller 5.

Agreed. Tim has the potential to be a better defender than Q and is already a better blocker. Reps should help development.

[rockhoya]

Apr 22, 2021 12:40:09 GMT -5 hoyafansinceewingera said:

Apr 22, 2021 12:26:02 GMT -5 HometownHoya said:

I agree with what you're saying but Tim can step into that role defensively pretty well. He might be a better blocker then Q and can rebound just as well. That's why I don't think we'll see much of a step back losing Q.

Your point about King is part of why I think we will be a better defensive team overall, King does have the size and weight to defend a 5 but like you said, it'll usually be against a smaller 5.

The one thing that we will have to worry about with Big Timmy is his propensity to foul.  Will coach work with him a lot this summer to help him with his defense to alleviate some of his proclivity to foul? Also, the other thing, though I don't think we will count too heavy on Big Timmy for and that is his inside scoring.   What is his go to move?  Does he have a hook shot?  Is he a bully like Q?  All those things are left to be determined.  However, he can dunk the ball if he can get lift>

He can't match Q in the scoring department!  As a result, we will lose some punch there.  However, he has to be able to flush the ball when he gets it inside and that's going to require some "lift" exercises for him in the offseason to help to get him to explode off two feet for the dunks. 

The main thing that I see from Big Timmy and it will be so sorely needed and that is REBOUND!  Oh one other thing, SHOT BLOCK!  I'm looking forward to Tim's "development".  Betcha never thought you would hear me use that d word before, huhn? 

I definitely think we will be playing King, Big Timmy and Mutombo at the five spot a lot the next year with each guy bringing something unique or somethings they specialize in.  For the first time, we are going to have so much flexibility at the center position as we go away slightly from our philosophy of big man ball. 

King will spread the floor, run the lanes and hit the deep ball, Big Tim will create an inside defensive presence and rebound, Mutombo will hit the midrange shots and post up. 

I am psyched!

Backup bugs are taught to use their fouls. We also have much more offensive firepower this year...

[hoyasaxa2003]

Anybody who has read my posts the last few years probably knows that I think defense is truly important, and I am curious to see how we defend with a largely new squad. We did play better defense after the COVID-19 break last year, and we played especially good defense in the BET, though not against Colorado. It'll be interesting to see, also, the defensive impact IF Ewing decides to go small ball, which is questionable.

A few things I will look for are: rotations, not letting guys have open 3's, and communication. I realize we are a young squad, but hopefully the team can gel quickly.

One thing I hadn't really focused on at all was that we are going to be playing our games at Capital One again. I came across this article, which goes into the effect of playing at McDonough, which raises some interesting points (and points, possibly, to a home-court advantage, if we ended up playing more games there if it ever got renovated (yes, I know that won't happen)).

thehilltop.medium.com/improved-defense-or-mcdonough-mirage-2b7981101709

[hoyainla]

If Tim is out I worry about the D. After watching Q it’s clear what he brings to D and more importantly rebounding. Tim could fill that role. Not sure Ryan can out the gate.

[hoyainla]

We better head back to McDonough. We MIGHT be able to fill it up after today. Safe to say the defense is not fixed.

[eastcoastteddy58]

Need to see more from Wilson, he was fair but I think he could do more on the offense

[kbones17]

As we know defense has consistently been a struggle for this program throughout PE’s tenure. On Saturday a lot of that can be chalked up to over-helping and leaving shooters, and ball-watching. This can partly be due to playing a lot of freshmen, although Dante, Donald and Kaiden all made mistakes too. One systemic issue I have is with PE’s substitution patterns l, which often seem to be random or in his mind probably “riding the hot hand.” The end result of mixing and matching so much is that you end up with so many different lineups on the floor, and the end result is that it’s hard to fall into a rhythm with your teammates. So much of defense is communication and playing as a unit. One breakdown leads to another and confusion on what your teammate will do leads to scrambling. We have played our best defense when we have a smaller rotation so they can gel together. Now, it was the first game with tons of a new faces so it may take some time (although that is what the scrimmages was supposed to be for…), but I sure hope that PE can settle into a rotation pattern to allow the units to develop defensive cohesiveness. I think we will have some solid to good defenders but if they’re all doing their own thing it’s never going to work.