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Post by professorhoya on Mar 31, 2021 6:19:02 GMT -5
What a comedy of errors at the end. So much hero ball by Jaquez, Wagner, Smith when all you need is a 2 pointer, not a 3 pointer. Big 10 O-V-E-R-A-T-E-D If a Hoya team had those end game offensive sequences Michigan had tonight this place would be howling about poor end game coaching. Why always call for 3 pointers down 1 or 2? Submitted by philibuster on March 31st, 2021 at 12:28 AM Log in or register to post comments In this game and the OSU BTT game Howard called for 3 pointers at the end. None went down. Why not drive to the rack? Get a high percentage chance at the lead or tie. It's like he can't help but want to win iconically with a 3.mgoblog.com/mgoboard/why-always-call-3-pointers-down-1-or-2
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Mar 31, 2021 7:13:15 GMT -5
Will focus on defense as I think that was our main takeaway from last round of discussions: - What stood out to me was how comfortable the teams were switching perimeter action, especially if it didn't involve the center (and even if it did, Dickinson switched more than I would've thought). The exception was USC, who's zone was simply lit on fire. And we can laugh and call that zone a terrible decision. But USC had the best 2pg FG% defense in the country and it was no match for Gonzaga. The Zags have a 30+ game consecutive streak of shooting over 50% on 2s, our season average was 46%. They're on another level right now.
- Gonzaga blitzed USCs weave action by switching and caused so many turnovers that let them get out on the break, USC could barely get into their offense. Timme ran a 3 on 2 break and even pulled off a Euro step layup on a different play, they're just so versatile
- UCLA and Michigan devolved into one on one action because the offensive sets were mostly neutralized by switching. For UCLA, that was just letting Juzang isolate. For Michigan ,that was force feeding Dickinson and trying to play volleyball off the backboard. Neither was super successful but Juzang did just enough. Campbell did a decent job attacking switches on Wagner and Dickinson as well.
- When Michigan didn't switch, what stood out was how aggressive the primary defender was in fighting over ball screens. That really let Dickinson hang back in drop coverage without too many issues. I think Dante does a great job of this but it wasnt consistent from our other perimeter defenders in ball screen action. Hoping Aminu, Riley, Beard, are capable of fighting over better and staying connected
- Was anyone else surprised to see Dickinson inbounding with 0.5 left? If anything would think he's a decoy for a lob. I guess it guaranteed the pass wouldn't be blocked but that was shocking. A back screen for Dickinson and I bet both defenders follow him to the hoop and would've left someone open
- Wagner was so terrible I really thought Howard was going to bench him and roll with Brown and Johns. So to put the ball in his hands with 20 seconds left was asking for trouble. I actually thought the Mike Smith 3 attempt was perfectly fine, pretty open and terrible defense from UCLA. Got away with it.
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,900
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Post by saxagael on Mar 31, 2021 7:58:02 GMT -5
Michigan's offensive possessions the last 8 minutes of the game: 7:27 Austin Davis missed Layup. 7:27 Franz Wagner Offensive Rebound. 7:08 Mike Smith made Three Point Jumper. 6:13 Franz Wagner Turnover. 5:23 Chaundee Brown made Three Point Jumper. Assisted by Eli Brooks. 4:30 Hunter Dickinson missed Free Throw. 4:30 Hunter Dickinson made Free Throw. 2:58 Franz Wagner missed Layup. 2:05 Hunter Dickinson missed Layup. 1:32 Mike Smith missed Layup. 0:44 Franz Wagner made Free Throw. 0:44 Franz Wagner made Free Throw. 0:12 Franz Wagner missed Three Point Jumper. 0:12 Eli Brooks Offensive Rebound. 0:08 Eli Brooks missed Layup. 0:02 Mike Smith missed Three Point Jumper. 0:00 Franz Wagner missed Three Point Jumper. So if you're scoring at home, that's 5 missed layups, no 2 point FGs, 2-5 from 3 despite one couldn't be more wide open look and a surprisingly clean look with 0.5 seconds left. When you take a lot of 2s and don't make a high percentage of them, you open yourself up to bad things like losing to one opposing player getting hot (Juzang) or coming up short despite being +10 on the boards. But that's the risk you run when you insist on posting up your big nearly every time down the floor. Need to have some semblance of balance and more than one way to score when your inside game isn't working. The key thing in this was nearly all of these shots were contested (aside from free throws) and UCLA was taking away good lines to layups. On the offensive side UCLA was shut down by Michigan's good defense, but Juzang was putting up contested shots with guys in his face and making them like he was alone in the park on a Sunday morning. The UCLA PG and three 6'6" wings that can dribble, shoot, and are long defender and bigger middle guy really is disruptive. Watching UCLA I was thinking about the Hoyas and what Patrick brought in this year as freshmen is rather similar to what Cronin was running. Small (yet bigger than Campbell by an inch or two and Berger who was coming last year but deferred is 6'2"/6'3") and Clark, Holloway, and Sibley (two 6'6" and a 6'8") who defend well, shoot well, are really athletic, and are long and can disrupt, plus add to that a solid big. Playing the tough defense that Patrick has been pushing for and finally was getting from 4.5 of this players the last month and a half of the season it is going to be really interesting. Add to that Berger coming to also help at point, Aminu who is a 6'5" wing who shoots really well, who loves defense and is incredibly good on the offensive glass, and can create for others really well, but Billingsly for help as a big wing, and Mutombo who is a good rim runner and defender with high ball IQ and pasess well. With Patrick's ability to improve players, get them to gel together, and play tough and with a lot of heart with a lot of talent, this could be fun if nothing more.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Mar 31, 2021 8:01:55 GMT -5
Congrats to UCLA. They grind out games and play tough.
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saxagael
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Posts: 6,900
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Post by saxagael on Mar 31, 2021 8:06:08 GMT -5
Will focus on defense as I think that was our main takeaway from last round of discussions: - What stood out to me was how comfortable the teams were switching perimeter action, especially if it didn't involve the center (and even if it did, Dickinson switched more than I would've thought). The exception was USC, who's zone was simply lit on fire. And we can laugh and call that zone a terrible decision. But USC had the best 2pg FG% defense in the country and it was no match for Gonzaga. The Zags have a 30+ game consecutive streak of shooting over 50% on 2s, our season average was 46%. They're on another level right now.
- Gonzaga blitzed USCs weave action by switching and caused so many turnovers that let them get out on the break, USC could barely get into their offense. Timme ran a 3 on 2 break and even pulled off a Euro step layup on a different play, they're just so versatile
- UCLA and Michigan devolved into one on one action because the offensive sets were mostly neutralized by switching. For UCLA, that was just letting Juzang isolate. For Michigan ,that was force feeding Dickinson and trying to play volleyball off the backboard. Neither was super successful but Juzang did just enough. Campbell did a decent job attacking switches on Wagner and Dickinson as well.
- When Michigan didn't switch, what stood out was how aggressive the primary defender was in fighting over ball screens. That really let Dickinson hang back in drop coverage without too many issues. I think Dante does a great job of this but it wasnt consistent from our other perimeter defenders in ball screen action. Hoping Aminu, Riley, Beard, are capable of fighting over better and staying connected
- Was anyone else surprised to see Dickinson inbounding with 0.5 left? If anything would think he's a decoy for a lob. I guess it guaranteed the pass wouldn't be blocked but that was shocking. A back screen for Dickinson and I bet both defenders follow him to the hoop and would've left someone open
- Wagner was so terrible I really thought Howard was going to bench him and roll with Brown and Johns. So to put the ball in his hands with 20 seconds left was asking for trouble. I actually thought the Mike Smith 3 attempt was perfectly fine, pretty open and terrible defense from UCLA. Got away with it.
This is really good. The getting over screens really stood out. The UCLA defense is long, active, and contests most everything (sometimes with body, cutting off good driving lanes, or length to shoot over as they had hands up much of the time), and disrupted Michigan. Wagner's last two shots were deep for him on the first shot (and with defender rushing at him he rushed his shot) and the last shot he was going toward the sideline away from the basket and tried to put it up. On the last shot UCLA had everybody else covered really well. UCLA was also disrupting Dickinsen with a smaller big who kept his weight low and always had contact keeping Dickinsen off balance all night.
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,900
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Post by saxagael on Mar 31, 2021 8:12:00 GMT -5
If a Hoya team had those end game offensive sequences Michigan had tonight this place would be howling about poor end game coaching. Why always call for 3 pointers down 1 or 2? Submitted by philibuster on March 31st, 2021 at 12:28 AM Log in or register to post comments In this game and the OSU BTT game Howard called for 3 pointers at the end. None went down. Why not drive to the rack? Get a high percentage chance at the lead or tie. It's like he can't help but want to win iconically with a 3.mgoblog.com/mgoboard/why-always-call-3-pointers-down-1-or-2With less than a second there isn't time to put the ball on the floor. But, the big reason is defenses cut off the cuts to the baskets. The best shot is often an elbow jumper or mid-range 2 to tie. The lay-up is cutoff as the first thing learned playing basketball is not to let a drive beat you at the end. It is going to be a jumper, but where. On UCLA's defending Michigan's final shot they didn't cover the inbounder so had a double coverage toward the middle to cut off a pick and drive for an easy 2 and defending well outside. The only player remotely open was Wagner who was going to the sideline and had to stop, turn, go up with a shot, and his body still drifting to the sideline away from the basket.
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Post by bearsandbulls on Mar 31, 2021 8:15:39 GMT -5
AAC, WAC, Big 12, Pac 12------This is so interesting. An underdog lover has to love having no ACC, no Big 10, no SEC.....And then the NCAA falls on its face with weight room issues and sending a losing team back to Eugene at 1 AM.....Is this ever a SNAFU.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Mar 31, 2021 8:18:15 GMT -5
AAC, WAC, Big 12, Pac 12------This is so interesting. An underdog lover has to love having no ACC, no Big 10, no SEC.....And then the NCAA falls on its face with weight room issues and sending a losing team back to Eugene at 1 AM.....Is this ever a SNAFU. National brand wise, I guess UCLA is the biggest draw? Wonder what the ratings will be for Houston-Baylor game.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 31, 2021 8:19:54 GMT -5
Why always call for 3 pointers down 1 or 2? Submitted by philibuster on March 31st, 2021 at 12:28 AM Log in or register to post comments In this game and the OSU BTT game Howard called for 3 pointers at the end. None went down. Why not drive to the rack? Get a high percentage chance at the lead or tie. It's like he can't help but want to win iconically with a 3.mgoblog.com/mgoboard/why-always-call-3-pointers-down-1-or-2 With less than a second there isn't time to put the ball on the floor. But, the big reason is defenses cut off the cuts to the baskets. The best shot is often an elbow jumper or mid-range 2 to tie. The lay-up is cutoff as the first thing learned playing basketball is not to let a drive beat you at the end. It is going to be a jumper, but where. On UCLA's defending Michigan's final shot they didn't cover the inbounder so had a double coverage toward the middle to cut off a pick and drive for an easy 2 and defending well outside. The only player remotely open was Wagner who was going to the sideline and had to stop, turn, go up with a shot, and his body still drifting to the sideline away from the basket. It was more than less than a second. That whole last minute, Michigan just started jacking up 3s over and over again when they were only down by one.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 31, 2021 8:24:47 GMT -5
Will focus on defense as I think that was our main takeaway from last round of discussions: - What stood out to me was how comfortable the teams were switching perimeter action, especially if it didn't involve the center (and even if it did, Dickinson switched more than I would've thought). The exception was USC, who's zone was simply lit on fire. And we can laugh and call that zone a terrible decision. But USC had the best 2pg FG% defense in the country and it was no match for Gonzaga. The Zags have a 30+ game consecutive streak of shooting over 50% on 2s, our season average was 46%. They're on another level right now.
- Gonzaga blitzed USCs weave action by switching and caused so many turnovers that let them get out on the break, USC could barely get into their offense. Timme ran a 3 on 2 break and even pulled off a Euro step layup on a different play, they're just so versatile
- UCLA and Michigan devolved into one on one action because the offensive sets were mostly neutralized by switching. For UCLA, that was just letting Juzang isolate. For Michigan ,that was force feeding Dickinson and trying to play volleyball off the backboard. Neither was super successful but Juzang did just enough. Campbell did a decent job attacking switches on Wagner and Dickinson as well.
- When Michigan didn't switch, what stood out was how aggressive the primary defender was in fighting over ball screens. That really let Dickinson hang back in drop coverage without too many issues. I think Dante does a great job of this but it wasnt consistent from our other perimeter defenders in ball screen action. Hoping Aminu, Riley, Beard, are capable of fighting over better and staying connected
- Was anyone else surprised to see Dickinson inbounding with 0.5 left? If anything would think he's a decoy for a lob. I guess it guaranteed the pass wouldn't be blocked but that was shocking. A back screen for Dickinson and I bet both defenders follow him to the hoop and would've left someone open
- Wagner was so terrible I really thought Howard was going to bench him and roll with Brown and Johns. So to put the ball in his hands with 20 seconds left was asking for trouble. I actually thought the Mike Smith 3 attempt was perfectly fine, pretty open and terrible defense from UCLA. Got away with it.
Single most impressive move from either game yesterday was Timme coming over to steal the ball and go coast to coast for a layup with relative ease. Not many 5s that can do that. 0:27 of this video.
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,900
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Post by saxagael on Mar 31, 2021 8:32:35 GMT -5
AAC, WAC, Big 12, Pac 12------This is so interesting. An underdog lover has to love having no ACC, no Big 10, no SEC.....And then the NCAA falls on its face with weight room issues and sending a losing team back to Eugene at 1 AM.....Is this ever a SNAFU. National brand wise, I guess UCLA is the biggest draw? Wonder what the ratings will be for Houston-Baylor game. Gonzaga has a really odd large following these days as perennial mid-major cinderella, which it sort of has outgrown. But, a lot of mid-major fans root for them quite heavily. (My dad went to Gonzaga and was a fan and when I was little UCLA was in prime Wooden years and was who I rooted for). Good question about Baylor & Houston. Basketball is an afterthought in their conferences.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 31, 2021 8:34:06 GMT -5
Will focus on defense as I think that was our main takeaway from last round of discussions: - What stood out to me was how comfortable the teams were switching perimeter action, especially if it didn't involve the center (and even if it did, Dickinson switched more than I would've thought). The exception was USC, who's zone was simply lit on fire. And we can laugh and call that zone a terrible decision. But USC had the best 2pg FG% defense in the country and it was no match for Gonzaga. The Zags have a 30+ game consecutive streak of shooting over 50% on 2s, our season average was 46%. They're on another level right now.
- Gonzaga blitzed USCs weave action by switching and caused so many turnovers that let them get out on the break, USC could barely get into their offense. Timme ran a 3 on 2 break and even pulled off a Euro step layup on a different play, they're just so versatile
- UCLA and Michigan devolved into one on one action because the offensive sets were mostly neutralized by switching. For UCLA, that was just letting Juzang isolate. For Michigan ,that was force feeding Dickinson and trying to play volleyball off the backboard. Neither was super successful but Juzang did just enough. Campbell did a decent job attacking switches on Wagner and Dickinson as well.
- When Michigan didn't switch, what stood out was how aggressive the primary defender was in fighting over ball screens. That really let Dickinson hang back in drop coverage without too many issues. I think Dante does a great job of this but it wasnt consistent from our other perimeter defenders in ball screen action. Hoping Aminu, Riley, Beard, are capable of fighting over better and staying connected
- Was anyone else surprised to see Dickinson inbounding with 0.5 left? If anything would think he's a decoy for a lob. I guess it guaranteed the pass wouldn't be blocked but that was shocking. A back screen for Dickinson and I bet both defenders follow him to the hoop and would've left someone open
- Wagner was so terrible I really thought Howard was going to bench him and roll with Brown and Johns. So to put the ball in his hands with 20 seconds left was asking for trouble. I actually thought the Mike Smith 3 attempt was perfectly fine, pretty open and terrible defense from UCLA. Got away with it.
Single most impressive move from either game yesterday was Timme coming over to steal the ball and go coast to coast for a layup with relative ease. Not many 5s that can do that. 0:27 of this video. Reminds me of a slightly more athletic version of UW's Frank Kaminsky.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Mar 31, 2021 8:39:11 GMT -5
Timme's celebrations after a made bucket or play are hilarious. lol
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saxagael
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Posts: 6,900
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Post by saxagael on Mar 31, 2021 8:40:00 GMT -5
With less than a second there isn't time to put the ball on the floor. But, the big reason is defenses cut off the cuts to the baskets. The best shot is often an elbow jumper or mid-range 2 to tie. The lay-up is cutoff as the first thing learned playing basketball is not to let a drive beat you at the end. It is going to be a jumper, but where. On UCLA's defending Michigan's final shot they didn't cover the inbounder so had a double coverage toward the middle to cut off a pick and drive for an easy 2 and defending well outside. The only player remotely open was Wagner who was going to the sideline and had to stop, turn, go up with a shot, and his body still drifting to the sideline away from the basket. It was more than less than a second. That whole last minute, Michigan just started jacking up 3s over and over again when they were only down by one. UCLA had pretty much cut off drives to the basket and had Dickinsen harassed so much with bodies on him and under him to not let him get a good balanced shot / layup / dunk. Wagner had been one player who was driving, but UCLA had adjusted and cut off the driving lanes. UCLA was giving long 3s, but were contesting relatively well anything close to the 3 line.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 31, 2021 8:40:04 GMT -5
On UCLA's defending Michigan's final shot they didn't cover the inbounder so had a double coverage toward the middle to cut off a pick and drive for an easy 2 and defending well outside. The only player remotely open was Wagner who was going to the sideline and had to stop, turn, go up with a shot, and his body still drifting to the sideline away from the basket. I'll also add that Michigan would have had the advantage in overtime with UCLA's best big Riley fouled out. They really should have gone for the 2 a, attack the basket and get points or draw a foul and not play hero ball by jacking up 3's.
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rhw485
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Posts: 743
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Post by rhw485 on Mar 31, 2021 8:44:27 GMT -5
With less than a second there isn't time to put the ball on the floor. But, the big reason is defenses cut off the cuts to the baskets. The best shot is often an elbow jumper or mid-range 2 to tie. The lay-up is cutoff as the first thing learned playing basketball is not to let a drive beat you at the end. It is going to be a jumper, but where. On UCLA's defending Michigan's final shot they didn't cover the inbounder so had a double coverage toward the middle to cut off a pick and drive for an easy 2 and defending well outside. The only player remotely open was Wagner who was going to the sideline and had to stop, turn, go up with a shot, and his body still drifting to the sideline away from the basket. It was more than less than a second. That whole last minute, Michigan just started jacking up 3s over and over again when they were only down by one. Agreed. The issue was less with the final attempt, but really the possession before it when down 1. 20 seconds left, you run a pick and roll w Wagner and Dickinson. Wagner pulls up from multiple feet behind the line and airballs it. Brooks actually had more time when he caught the airball but rushed his layup. Now was it a bad playcall? I don't know, that's not a play drawn up for a 3 (it wasn't like a wing curling off a double screen), and he's wide open it's hard not to shoot it. But he was open for a reason, should've reversed the ball to someone who could attack close out. Do you tell him in huddle it has to go to hoop? Probably. I actually don't have a problem with the Mike Smith one with 5 seconds left, that was a walk into open 3 for the game without a ton of time to know you'll get to the hoop.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 31, 2021 9:00:34 GMT -5
It was more than less than a second. That whole last minute, Michigan just started jacking up 3s over and over again when they were only down by one. Agreed. The issue was less with the final attempt, but really the possession before it when down 1. 20 seconds left, you run a pick and roll w Wagner and Dickinson. Wagner pulls up from multiple feet behind the line and airballs it. Brooks actually had more time when he caught the airball but rushed his layup. Now was it a bad playcall? I don't know, that's not a play drawn up for a 3 (it wasn't like a wing curling off a double screen), and he's wide open it's hard not to shoot it. But he was open for a reason, should've reversed the ball to someone who could attack close out. Do you tell him in huddle it has to go to hoop? Probably. I actually don't have a problem with the Mike Smith one with 5 seconds left, that was a walk into open 3 for the game without a ton of time to know you'll get to the hoop. I think what it showed was Michigan was a highly flawed team. Sure they were missing Livers but Villanova was missing Gillespie and were downgraded to a 5 seed while Michigan was a #1 seed (in most part to Big10 overratedness). To me the chubby little point guard Smith wasn't a true point guard as they like to say. He couldn't dribble penetrate or blow by people and his scoring was inconsistent. Only 3 points in the biggest game of the season. Even with 5 seconds you can pull off a Tyus Edney 4.8 seconds 2 pointer. Compare that to Dante where we were down one vs Villanova and he dribble penetrates and draws the foul and wins the game. That's taking initiative for a high percentage play.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2021 9:18:05 GMT -5
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 31, 2021 9:22:51 GMT -5
I think what it showed was Michigan was a highly flawed team. I want a highly flawed team that goes deep in March.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 31, 2021 9:29:35 GMT -5
Part of that is nerves but I think one of the biggest things I saw in the Michigan game was how out of shape and not NBA level conditioning that the Wolverines were in. Which is interesting as Juwon is an NBA guy. But guys like Hunter and particularly the point guard Smith are not in NBA level condition. Tired legs will hurt free throws and 3pt shots. And when a team is not in particularly good condition that will hurt them towards the end of games and in a tournament where you have to win 4-6 consecutive games. Coach Ewing has made it a point to emphasize NBA level conditioning. And practicing free throws after NBA level conditioning training. Suicides then free throws, Suicides then free throws. That winning culture, finally bore fruit with how fresh we were during the BET run in 4 consecutive days. And in a tournament style system, I believe Ewing's philosophy is the right one.
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