SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,397
|
Post by SSHoya on Feb 15, 2021 12:41:23 GMT -5
Over half of Americans (58%) say that Trump should have been convicted, which tracks with the 56% who said the same last week before the 57-43 Senate vote to acquit left Trump free to possibly run for office again. Last year, after Trump was acquitted in his first Senate impeachment trial, Americans were evenly split on the outcome, with 49% approving of the Senate's judgment and 47% disapproving, according to a Monmouth University poll abcnews.go.com/Politics/impeachment-trial-solidified-views-trump-conviction-poll/story?id=75892916
|
|
HoyaNyr320
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,233
|
Post by HoyaNyr320 on Feb 15, 2021 12:57:37 GMT -5
"I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally. This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy. The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it. It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another." - Excerpt from George Washington's Farewell Address, September 19, 1796 Happy Presidents' Day Hoyatalk!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 15:58:32 GMT -5
I'm not an attorney but, IMO, pragmatism. It was made very clear that, regardless of what was presented, the "Republicans" were going to side with Trump over their oaths of office. Calling witnesses would have been pointless because the "Republicans" have chosen Trump over democracy. May they reap what they've sown. Tas: I happen to think you are right that the votes would not have changed. My question is why the 11th hour Editeding and moaning about witnesses. How would you have voted?
|
|
Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,495
|
Post by Elvado on Feb 15, 2021 16:29:33 GMT -5
Tas: I happen to think you are right that the votes would not have changed. My question is why the 11th hour Editeding and moaning about witnesses. How would you have voted? What state am I representing and when am I up for re-election? If you want me to be a politician you have to go the whole 9.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 16:56:18 GMT -5
How would you have voted? What state am I representing and when am I up for re-election? If you want me to be a politician you have to go the whole 9. I want you to be yourself. What is YOUR opinion.
|
|
Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,495
|
Post by Elvado on Feb 15, 2021 19:03:59 GMT -5
What state am I representing and when am I up for re-election? If you want me to be a politician you have to go the whole 9. I want you to be yourself. What is YOUR opinion. I would have voted to convict. I think the case went in light but this was a political not legal matter and there was enough there to convict on the single charge.
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,397
|
Post by SSHoya on Feb 16, 2021 11:04:35 GMT -5
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,331
|
Post by tashoya on Feb 16, 2021 11:26:24 GMT -5
The legacy of this, sadly, is that the GOP has now normalized and not-so-tacitly approved of this behavior. The next time will be far worse and not a one of us will be surprised.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,607
|
Post by DanMcQ on Feb 16, 2021 20:19:19 GMT -5
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
|
Post by hoyarooter on Feb 16, 2021 21:50:15 GMT -5
I had this witness debate with a friend of mine now living in Australia who is very progressive. He sent me an article co-written by good old Ralph Nader castigating the Dems as cowards for not calling witnesses. I told him I felt the Dems had absolutely made their case (Elvado, you are free to disagree, but I think you would have disagreed if they had called 100 witnesses), and calling witnesses would have made no difference at all, and changed no minds among the cowards, sycophants and traitors (I'm looking at you, Sens. Cruz and Hawley).
|
|
Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,495
|
Post by Elvado on Feb 17, 2021 5:44:52 GMT -5
I had this witness debate with a friend of mine now living in Australia who is very progressive. He sent me an article co-written by good old Ralph Nader castigating the Dems as cowards for not calling witnesses. I told him I felt the Dems had absolutely made their case (Elvado, you are free to disagree, but I think you would have disagreed if they had called 100 witnesses), and calling witnesses would have made no difference at all, and changed no minds among the cowards, sycophants and traitors (I'm looking at you, Sens. Cruz and Hawley). See my prior post. I would have voted to convict on the evidence. The case was political not legal and they met that lower burden. That said, the 11th hour whirring around about witnesses they never called made them look amateurish and ill-prepared.
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,397
|
Post by SSHoya on Feb 17, 2021 14:51:27 GMT -5
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,397
|
Post by SSHoya on Feb 17, 2021 17:01:38 GMT -5
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
|
Post by hoyarooter on Feb 17, 2021 20:24:05 GMT -5
I had this witness debate with a friend of mine now living in Australia who is very progressive. He sent me an article co-written by good old Ralph Nader castigating the Dems as cowards for not calling witnesses. I told him I felt the Dems had absolutely made their case (Elvado, you are free to disagree, but I think you would have disagreed if they had called 100 witnesses), and calling witnesses would have made no difference at all, and changed no minds among the cowards, sycophants and traitors (I'm looking at you, Sens. Cruz and Hawley). See my prior post. I would have voted to convict on the evidence. The case was political not legal and they met that lower burden. That said, the 11th hour whirring around about witnesses they never called made them look amateurish and ill-prepared. I can't disagree with this, but in the greater scheme of things, I am much less bothered by the witness kerfuffle than I am by the 43 Republicans who continued to back our pocket Mussolini, no matter what excuse they may have fallen back on.
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,331
|
Post by tashoya on Feb 17, 2021 21:44:24 GMT -5
See my prior post. I would have voted to convict on the evidence. The case was political not legal and they met that lower burden. That said, the 11th hour whirring around about witnesses they never called made them look amateurish and ill-prepared. I can't disagree with this, but in the greater scheme of things, I am much less bothered by the witness kerfuffle than I am by the 43 Republicans who continued to back our pocket Mussolini, no matter what excuse they may have fallen back on. In addition to which, they were brazen about doing so. In a rare incident of honesty, they basically said flat-out that they weren't going to listen to the evidence. They completely disregarded their duty and were, apparently, proud to have done so in favor of supporting their insurrectionist-in-chief. Next time will be far worse.
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,397
|
Post by SSHoya on Feb 20, 2021 7:54:09 GMT -5
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,397
|
Post by SSHoya on Feb 21, 2021 12:55:53 GMT -5
The sociopath is the domestic version of Bin Laden. The Trump cultist Republicans are Al Qaeda. Last month, I recognized many of the same forces driving my fellow Americans into extremism. I’m not equating the Jan. 6 rioters with those fighting to unite the world under a caliphate via a global campaign of terrorism. But domestic radicalism has deep parallels to jihadist terrorism: Both movements are driven by alienation from the political system and a resulting breakdown in social norms. For some groups and individuals, this breakdown leads to violence they see as justified to achieve political ends. Law enforcement officials are taking notice. The Department of Homeland Security now identifies American extremist violence, particularly among white-supremacist groups, as “the most persistent and lethal threat” on our shores. And, at least in recent years, violent acts by right-wing extremists have exceeded those of Islamist terrorists. Since 9/11, 114 people have been killed in attacks by right-wing terrorists in the United States vs. 107 by jihadist terrorists, according to data compiled by New America. www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/capitol-riot-terrorism-islam-violence/2021/02/19/6d4b499a-7222-11eb-85fa-e0ccb3660358_story.html?itid=hp_opinions
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,397
|
Post by SSHoya on Feb 21, 2021 16:35:22 GMT -5
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,397
|
Post by SSHoya on Feb 22, 2021 8:42:51 GMT -5
From MyPillow to MyLawsuit. Trump cultist morons. Dominion Voting Systems filed a defamation lawsuit on Monday against Mike Lindell, chief executive of MyPillow, arguing that he has refused to stop repeating false claims that its voting machines were manipulated to rig the 2020 election against President Donald Trump. Dominion is seeking more than $1.3 billion from Lindell, a staunch Trump supporter. www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/02/22/joe-biden-live-updates/
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,397
|
Post by SSHoya on Feb 22, 2021 10:34:40 GMT -5
|
|