Georgetown @ Butler 1/6/21 Discussion

[DanMcQ]

Road trip for another winnable game.

[guru]

LOL

[vv83]

"winnable" is a word we probably should not be using this season!

[DanMcQ]

Never say never! ;-)

[wponds]

Limit the turnovers, play decent defense, play 40 minutes

[RockawayHoya]

The game is winnable. All of them have been so far. But it's going to require a certain level of preparation, motivation, and execution that I'm not sure we're ready to give at this point.

Butler's got several excellent shooters. Bolden, Harris and Tate are all in the 39-42% range from 3. Don't think we will see another Marquette-like performance from beyond the arc from these guys. Will our scouting report give up the dribble drive at the cost of not leaving shooters?

Will Aaron Thompson play? He's vital to what they do. If history holds, he will and cause us fits.

[mdtd]

Their freshman guards are good. Their bigs are ok. They play solid defense, but their offense is not great. Their freshman guards though are legit. If there's one season that can ruin our Hinkle Magic, it's this one.

[saxagael]

Jan 2, 2021 22:34:18 GMT -5 wponds said:

Limit the turnovers, play decent defense, play 40 minutes

Add to that move the ball to get an open shot when there is a lot of time on the clock, play defense outside, and don't help inside if your man is outside and they can make a 3.

[hoyainla]

These are the 2 worst teams in the conference. It feels that it should be a season split. Considering our success at Hinkle let's hope we get the first one.

[prhoya]

Jan 3, 2021 17:55:17 GMT -5 saxagael said:

Jan 2, 2021 22:34:18 GMT -5 wponds said:

Limit the turnovers, play decent defense, play 40 minutes

Add to that move the ball to get an open shot when there is a lot of time on the clock, play defense outside, and don't help inside if your man is outside and they can make a 3.

But they are instructed to do that according to Ewing's post-game conference. What would you have them do if that is what they are instructed to do?

[Bigs"R"Us]

I don’t get why setting up shooters for open threes is not part of our offense. Pickett, Blair and Berger would shine in such an offense. Have Dante drive and kick out or Q kick out of a double team or set picks on the perimeter. Instead, we run a stagnant offense with very little motion and a lot of one-on-one which we don’t have the personnel for this year. Also, Wahab cannot be a blackhole, where every time he touches it he shoots.

[rhw485]

Jan 4, 2021 7:33:34 GMT -5 Bigs"R"Us said:

I don’t get why setting up shooters for open threes is not part of our offense. Pickett, Blair and Berger would shine in such an offense. Have Dante drive and kick out or Q kick out of a double team or set picks on the perimeter. Instead, we run a stagnant offense with very little motion and a lot of one-on-one which we don’t have the personnel for this year. Also, Wahab cannot be a blackhole, where every time he touches it he shoots.

I agree, all offenses require doing something to dictate the defense collapsing and getting into rotation to unlock 3 pointers.  Of the two you mentioned,  Q hasn't shown to be a willing or capable passer out of double teams.  And Dante has had some success driving and dishing but it's a lot to ask every time down. He also hasn't shown he can finish at the rim so I would make him do that before collapsing the defense.  Other options would be running Blair off screens and try and get him a half step to help drive and penetrate into the lane.  If Pickett is going to get to the hoop he should probably be starting at the free throw line in horns type sets which we used to run w Derrickson.  We actually did that a few times vs. Marquette but Pickett missed 3 wide open 3s (not horns sets just good ball movement for shots). 

The most jarring statistical change to our offense is our inability to get to the free throw line (well that and turnovers).  Q doesn't draw enough fouls in the post because there's just not enough fakes to create contact.  And nobody else can really pressure the defense off the dribble, agree Dante is our best hope this season.

[Bigs"R"Us]

James and Mac were good a drawing fouls, especially at crunch time. We don’t have that type of creator on the team now. Dante can step into this role over time, but at 5’10” it’s difficult for him to finish in the BE. Blair, Carey and Pickett really aren’t creators. Blair would rather shoot a floater than take it to the basket.

[mdtd]

I've actually watched a ton of Butler this season. Without Thompson, they lose a ton, but I wouldn't be shocked if he's back for this game (then again, they've done the whole questionable for three weeks thing so who knows). They need his creation and defense back.

That being said, their guards can shoot the ball. You can not leave Bolden under any circumstance. If he's open, it's going in. He is lights out. He's the typical guy that can kill the Hoyas like every year. He's that exact player. They will run some off-ball action for him (more with Thompson back, since the more experienced player allows for more intricate offense to be run), but if we ever hedge, don't leave him. Never. Hope Q gets the block on the recovery, as that definitely has less PPP than a Bolden catch and shoot open three.

Their freshman guards have it. They will be very good players. They have been relatively inconsistent for long stretches, but they can shoot it. Creating for them now is a worry, but they have shown the potential to and can at times. They have missed a calming force when they are going through one of their standard long stretches without scoring (which will happen), but these kids have it. Chuck Harris has an unorthodox form, but he hits them, and Tate has a more standard form and seems to be quicker, but he's not as consistent a player as Harris is. Harris is the better shooter and he's calm with the ball while Tate tends to go crazier at times and careless, but he's quick and can cause problems for our defense if we can't keep him out of the lane. Both have the potential to go ballistic at times, and are guys you have to respect.

We've seen Golden and Nze before and they are the exact same player. Nze has been awful from the line, but that's all that's different. Good, but not great defensively. Pickett can work against Nze, so long as he plays within the offense. Don't force shots.

Their guards aren't great yet defensively. They tend to get beat off the dribble, but their defense has stepped up recently. Still, they tend to get beat off the dribble and then allow for someone to make a play. Teams haven't shot it great from three against them, but that's in part due to their opponents in two of the last three being Providence who has 1.5 guys who can consistently hit a jumper. You can beat their guards off the dribble, and you have to make a play off of that. If Thompson is back, you still have the ability to beat their guards, but we ain't taking Thompson much. He probably guards Blair if he plays, meaning other guys will have to step up.

They are beatable. I don't think they are the second-worst team in the conference, but without Thompson, it's very fair to say they are. They are young and play a ton of freshmen. One of their freshmen missed their most recent game and it didn't sound great, so I don't think he plays for a while. I believe it was Coles. One thing our staff should note, especially if we lose, is how often they play their freshmen. Their class was similarly ranked to ours, so if they take this game, it should be a sign that our freshmen need to see the floor.

This is as good of a get right spot as we have had in recent years. We need some confidence in the young guys. Dante needs to step it up. Their freshmen have been much more consistent than him, and this is a spot where he can get his mojo back. Their young guards have looked much better than him recently. Chuck Harris has put it together recently and Myles Tate has consistent flashes. Dante will need to play well here. Also, since they tend to leave guards open, Berger should play more. He can shoot it really well and that seems to be the matchup we should most exploit. Plus the Berger game being our game in Hinkle just feels right.

[prhoya]

Jan 4, 2021 14:04:05 GMT -5 Bigs"R"Us said:

James and Mac were good a drawing fouls, especially at crunch time. We don’t have that type of creator on the team now. Dante can step into this role over time, but at 5’10” it’s difficult for him to finish in the BE. Blair, Carey and Pickett really aren’t creators. Blair would rather shoot a floater than take it to the basket.

Here we go again with the alleged “short" guard issue. First, it has been beaten to death in Hoyatalk and disproven with tons of examples. Height does not prevent a guard from succeeding in the BE (yes, ceteris paribus, height is better). Second, Dante is listed at 6'0", not 5’10” ( guhoyas.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster ). Third, Dante's problem is being thrown into the fire as a starter on a team, according to his coach, with no star players to take over games. The difference in responsibilities is obvious so I'll not go into it. He will have his ups and downs while adjusting from having played with, I'm going to guess, not many D-1 prospects in high school to BE players of all shapes and sizes. Dante was scheduled to be a back-up to the starter coming in, with the hope that he would be "another diamond-in-the-rough" discovery for Pat. That was then, this is now. He is a BE starter by necessity on a team with no clear first (maybe Qudus in half-court sets), second, third, fourth and fifth options. Finally, regarding his finishing, what I see is a player who is going at 100 mph, trying to do too much and finding himself caught in difficult positions. But, his jump shots have beautiful form (which he repeats) and a great jump. This leads me to believe that Dante can rise up to finish layups in the BE. It's not like Akinjo, who had no lift and speed. Once Dante harnesses his speed, applies the touch necessary to finish around the rim, and has more talent around him, then IMO he will be a great four-year piece of the puzzle.

[Bigs"R"Us]

I like Dante a lot. He’s much quicker than James which can help him get a step on his defender. He’s a freshman who has been thrust into a major role.

[saxagael]

Jan 4, 2021 0:09:47 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Jan 3, 2021 17:55:17 GMT -5 saxagael said:

Add to that move the ball to get an open shot when there is a lot of time on the clock, play defense outside, and don't help inside if your man is outside and they can make a 3.

But they are instructed to do that according to Ewing's post-game conference. What would you have them do if that is what they are instructed to do?

It is still the players responsibility to check with the ref every time. Being out of time outs means they can't correct it. Coaches drawing up any out of bounds movement nearly always check with the ref before doing it as it is a common error. Nearly every coach is thankful when the player asks and corrects the mistake. Also, refs make mistakes on this as well.

[EtomicB]

Jan 4, 2021 19:54:07 GMT -5 saxagael said:

Jan 4, 2021 0:09:47 GMT -5 prhoya said:

But they are instructed to do that according to Ewing's post-game conference. What would you have them do if that is what they are instructed to do?

It is still the players responsibility to check with the ref every time. Being out of time outs means they can't correct it. Coaches drawing up any out of bounds movement nearly always check with the ref before doing it as it is a common error. Nearly every coach is thankful when the player asks and corrects the mistake. Also, refs make mistakes on this as well.

Pretty sure prhoya was referring to PE's defensive instructions not the last possession in the Marquette game...

[saxagael]

Jan 4, 2021 21:23:31 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Jan 4, 2021 19:54:07 GMT -5 saxagael said:

It is still the players responsibility to check with the ref every time. Being out of time outs means they can't correct it. Coaches drawing up any out of bounds movement nearly always check with the ref before doing it as it is a common error. Nearly every coach is thankful when the player asks and corrects the mistake. Also, refs make mistakes on this as well.

Pretty sure prhoya was referring to PE's defensive instructions not the last possession in the Marquette game...

Ah! That will teach me to just go through mentions and not look at the thread. Thanks!

Ewing lets the poor outside shooting teams and players shoot, but gets up tight about not defending out on good shooting players and teams. Many post game sessions Ewing will call out other team's players and say if they want to put up 3s we aren't going to defend them as they rarely make them.

For much of the game Ewing was having players cover outside moderately well, but not tight and Marquette struggled. They had a couple players get a hot hand and Hoya players were covering the paint rather than having moderate coverage on their man out as they mostly had all game. Don Carey had a mental lapse leaving his man wide open at the end.

For the most part do what coach says.

[DanMcQ]