JimmyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Hoya fan, est. 1986
Posts: 1,867
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1983
Jul 17, 2005 23:38:36 GMT -5
Post by JimmyHoya on Jul 17, 2005 23:38:36 GMT -5
What happenned this year? Seems to be the down year nobody talks about during the Ewing era. The team was 22-10, 11-5 in the BE, lost in the 2nd roundof the NCAA's and finished ranked #20 in the country. hoyabasketball.com/records/bb-1980.htmLooking over the schedule it seems they simply didn't have it in the big games. They won a lot, but against the top teams they consistently faltered. Does this sum up the season or were there other problems that year?
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 1:07:23 GMT -5
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 18, 2005 1:07:23 GMT -5
Being that I was born literally while the game against Providence was on TV - its very hard for me to say anything about that season.
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JimmyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Hoya fan, est. 1986
Posts: 1,867
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 1:27:13 GMT -5
Post by JimmyHoya on Jul 18, 2005 1:27:13 GMT -5
I was born during the NY Giants week 1 MNF loss to the Dallas Cowboys. My pops wasn't amused that I was born during the game, or that his Giants lost, but he hasn't abandond me yet so I figure he wasn't too angry. He preordered his season tix for the Cap Center earlier that day too, so the day wasn't a total loss.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,756
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 7:00:56 GMT -5
Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 18, 2005 7:00:56 GMT -5
The short answer was that the 1982-83 season was a major adjustment betwen the loss of five seniors (Floyd, E. Smith, Hancock, Spriggs, Blaylock) with six newcomers (Jackson, Wingate, Broadnax, Dunn, Morris, plus Ralph Dalton's first year following a severe knee injury before the start of the 1981-82 season). Add injuries to Anthony Jones and Fred Brown that limited Brown to just 17 games all season, and the 82-83 team had a lot to deal with.
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AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
Posts: 1,481
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 7:21:10 GMT -5
Post by AvantGuardHoya on Jul 18, 2005 7:21:10 GMT -5
Compared to the Final Four seasons of Ewing’s other three years, ’82-’83 was a downer. But for me there were a number of understandable reasons why.
This, of course, was Patrick’s sophomore year. Coming off the last second loss to UNC in the NCAA title game you’d have thought we’d be pretty good. Unfortunately we lost our starting point guard before the season started – Fred Brown went down with a knee and was lost for the year. This forced us to start a freshman backcourt of Michael Jackson and David Wingate. While both were good players, their lack of experience hurt. We still had Gene Smith off the bench, but Gene’s game was pretty one dimensional – very good D, but no offense. While Horace Broadnax could score, he, too, was only a freshman.
Similarly, we were young and thin in the frontcourt. We really had no effective backup to Ewing; Dalton’s mobility was still limited by the knee injury that had wiped out his freshman year and David Dunn and Victor Morris didn’t provide much upfront, either. We also lost promising sophomore forward Anthony Jones to injury halfway through the year. He never played for us again, transferring to UNLV during the following summer.
So, in a nutshell, we didn’t play with all our weapons during the ’82-’83 season and we had an inexperienced squad. Still, the team was 11-5 during the BE regular season and wound up with a poll ranking of #20. That’s really not bad. And the seeds for our championship were definitely sown, as the backcourt of Jackson and Wingate got loads of PT and came back ready. Bill Martin stepped up his game. And Fred Brown returned. Of course the additions of Reggie and Graham were huge factors, too. Ahhhh, the glory years.... ;D
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JB5
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 690
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 8:54:23 GMT -5
Post by JB5 on Jul 18, 2005 8:54:23 GMT -5
The '82-'83 team was a good one but not up to those before and after. The freshmen in the backcourt took some time to get going (remember the humiliating early loss to AU? I still recall carloads of their fans driving by Village A to gloat). The Big East was loaded that year with SJU, BC, SU and 'Nova all spending time in the top twenty. The team's real weakness, though, was the lack of a real power forward to complement Ewing. Martin and Jones were good players, but both were natural 3s. We lost to Memphis State, with two (nearly) seven-footers, in the Tournament because Ewing couldn't quite handle both.
Of course, the next year, Michael Graham and Reggie arrived and life got much better.
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angus
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 188
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 9:03:54 GMT -5
Post by angus on Jul 18, 2005 9:03:54 GMT -5
The short answer was that the 1982-83 season was a major adjustment betwen the loss of five seniors (Floyd, E. Smith, Hancock, Spriggs, Blaylock) with six newcomers (Jackson, Wingate, Broadnax, Dunn, Morris, plus Ralph Dalton's first year following a severe knee injury before the start of the 1981-82 season). Add injuries to Anthony Jones and Fred Brown that limited Brown to just 17 games all season, and the 82-83 team had a lot to deal with. _________________ Our guards, who later became very reliable, were just not ready for prime time. I went to the Winston Tire games in LA, where we beat Wisconsin and lost, badly, to Alabama. Ennis Whatley torched us, if I recall correctly.
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 10:12:07 GMT -5
Post by hoyalove4ever on Jul 18, 2005 10:12:07 GMT -5
Big John could recruit back in the day. Michael Graham and Reggie in the same class...ouch!
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 10:38:37 GMT -5
Post by SirSaxa on Jul 18, 2005 10:38:37 GMT -5
The short answer was that the 1982-83 season was a major adjustment betwen the loss of five seniors (Floyd, E. Smith, Hancock, Spriggs, Blaylock) with six newcomers (Jackson, Wingate, Broadnax, Dunn, Morris, plus Ralph Dalton's first year following a severe knee injury before the start of the 1981-82 season). Add injuries to Anthony Jones and Fred Brown that limited Brown to just 17 games all season, and the 82-83 team had a lot to deal with. This reinforces DFW's point about senior leadership on a team... such as we will have this season. Also, as talented as all the seniors were -- and the injured players who missed much of the following season -- the most important loss was Sleepy Floyd -- a first round draft pick and arguably the greatest guard in Hoya History. There is only one other guard who could conceivably be in that discussion. In short, 1983 was a rebuilding year, during which we still won 20+ and finished in the top-20. Some "down" year.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,756
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 12:23:10 GMT -5
Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 18, 2005 12:23:10 GMT -5
Big John could recruit back in the day. Michael Graham and Reggie in the same class...ouch! Graham was a late commit, owing to his summer graduation from Spingarn. The real pick-up would have been a 6-8 forward out of Washington HS in Tulsa who said Georgetown would be his first choice, but Billy Tubbs wouldn't let him get away. So imagine a front line in 1983-84 which could have stood Patrick Ewing at center, Reggie Williams at the SF...and Wayman Tisdale at the 4.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,212
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 12:24:52 GMT -5
Post by hoyarooter on Jul 18, 2005 12:24:52 GMT -5
I was also at the Winston Tire games in LA. The only thing I really remember is that Alabama torched us. I think they had another very good player along with Whatley, but I can't recall who it was. I know it wasn't Robert Horry...it only seems that way. ;D
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 13:15:08 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 18, 2005 13:15:08 GMT -5
Seniors and upperclassmen are important, but less so today. Remember, those freshman had to deal with seniors that would be straight to the NBAs or jumping early now. Freshman make more impact now than ever.
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Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,432
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 13:18:38 GMT -5
Post by Nevada Hoya on Jul 18, 2005 13:18:38 GMT -5
The short answer was that the 1982-83 season was a major adjustment betwen the loss of five seniors (Floyd, E. Smith, Hancock, Spriggs, Blaylock) with six newcomers (Jackson, Wingate, Broadnax, Dunn, Morris, plus Ralph Dalton's first year following a severe knee injury before the start of the 1981-82 season). Add injuries to Anthony Jones and Fred Brown that limited Brown to just 17 games all season, and the 82-83 team had a lot to deal with. This reinforces DFW's point about senior leadership on a team... such as we will have this season. Also, as talented as all the seniors were -- and the injured players who missed much of the following season -- the most important loss was Sleepy Floyd -- a first round draft pick and arguably the greatest guard in Hoya History. There is only one other guard who could conceivably be in that discussion. In short, 1983 was a rebuilding year, during which we still won 20+ and finished in the top-20. Some "down" year. I echo SirSaxa's comments. How do you replace a Sleepy Floyd? I think it was general knowledge that year that this would be a letdown from the previous year, although optimism that help was on the way.
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 15:05:48 GMT -5
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 18, 2005 15:05:48 GMT -5
Big John could recruit back in the day. Michael Graham and Reggie in the same class...ouch! Graham was a late commit, owing to his summer graduation from Spingarn. The real pick-up would have been a 6-8 forward out of Washington HS in Tulsa who said Georgetown would be his first choice, but Billy Tubbs wouldn't let him get away. So imagine a front line in 1983-84 which could have stood Patrick Ewing at center, Reggie Williams at the SF...and Wayman Tisdale at the 4. Booker T. Washington in Tulsa is a sports and academics factory - the school has produced as many professional athletes as Harvard graduates (many in both cases) - they also have one of the most amazing high school drumlines that I have ever seen.
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angus
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 188
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 16:33:19 GMT -5
Post by angus on Jul 18, 2005 16:33:19 GMT -5
I was also at the Winston Tire games in LA. The only thing I really remember is that Alabama torched us. I think they had another very good player along with Whatley, but I can't recall who it was. I know it wasn't Robert Horry...it only seems that way. ;D ________ I believe current Indiana coach Mike Davis was on that Bama team as well.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,560
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1983
Jul 18, 2005 21:57:57 GMT -5
Post by DanMcQ on Jul 18, 2005 21:57:57 GMT -5
What happenned this year? Seems to be the down year nobody talks about during the Ewing era. I got married. It was a very good year. ;D
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AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
Posts: 1,481
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1983
Jul 19, 2005 10:39:12 GMT -5
Post by AvantGuardHoya on Jul 19, 2005 10:39:12 GMT -5
The real pick-up would have been a 6-8 forward out of Washington HS in Tulsa who said Georgetown would be his first choice, but Billy Tubbs wouldn't let him get away. So imagine a front line in 1983-84 which could have stood Patrick Ewing at center, Reggie Williams at the SF...and Wayman Tisdale at the 4. DFW: Interesting that you feel that way about Tisdale. I remember being disappointed that we didn’t get him, too, but honestly, the season we got out of Graham more than made up for that as far as I’m concerned. Tisdale was an excellent college player, but MG was exactly what we needed in a 4/5: a tenacious rebounder and dunker who played intimidating D – in short, an excellent complement to Patrick. Graham’s offense was a bonus, and it really wasn’t bad. His lefty stroke just needed more time to fully develop. Don’t get me wrong; Tisdale was an offensive force, but IMHO, he really wasn’t in Graham’s class on the defensive end – where the Hoyas game was really played. I’ve said it before, but if MG had his academic game together, he and Reggie would have gotten us back to a Final Four. And he’d have made it on the next level, too. And who knows, he might have ended up being a smooth jazz phenomenon, as well !
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1983
Jul 19, 2005 10:53:03 GMT -5
Post by JohnnyTwoTimes on Jul 19, 2005 10:53:03 GMT -5
I agree with Avant about 1984 - Graham fit the style better and was exactly what GU needed. But Tisdale might have been a difference-maker in 1985 in the one game in which we could have used one.
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AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
Posts: 1,481
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1983
Jul 19, 2005 11:10:35 GMT -5
Post by AvantGuardHoya on Jul 19, 2005 11:10:35 GMT -5
I agree with Avant about 1984 - Graham fit the style better and was exactly what GU needed. But Tisdale might have been a difference-maker in 1985 in the one game in which we could have used one. I'll argue the point, Johnny. I say if we had MG in '85 we win back-to-back titles! 'Cause MG was a difference maker. Remember, his offense hadn't fully manifested itself. MG's intimidation factor would still have been there, plus he'd have been better integrated into the offense. Ed Pinckney, et al would not have had the same comfort level on the court with MG in the game.
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1983
Jul 19, 2005 11:17:55 GMT -5
Post by JohnnyTwoTimes on Jul 19, 2005 11:17:55 GMT -5
There is no question in my mind that if Graham would have been around in 1985 we would have won the title again; we may have even gone undefeated. My point was that it turns out Graham was not there in '85, so if you had Tisdale instead -- a guy who did play college ball that year -- he might have made the difference on that fateful April night. No doubt, if both were available, I'd rather have graham in '85 than Tisdale in '85; but I'd rather have Tisdale in '85 over no Graham at all.
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