jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Aug 2, 2020 18:59:11 GMT -5
Post by jwp91 on Aug 2, 2020 18:59:11 GMT -5
So based on the current roster, here are the guards in 21/22
Carey, Sr. Harris, So. Berger So. Clark, So. Beard, Fr. Riley, Fr.
All of these players have played some point and had play-making responsibilities.
Do we have enough play-making? Who can’t play on the wing or off-ball instead? And only 1 is shorter than 6’3”!
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blazers32
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Aug 2, 2020 20:32:06 GMT -5
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Post by blazers32 on Aug 2, 2020 20:32:06 GMT -5
So based on the current roster, here are the guards in 21/22 Carey, Sr. Harris, So. Berger So. Clark, So. Beard, Fr. Riley, Fr. All of these players have played some point and had play-making responsibilities. Do we have enough play-making? Who can’t play on the wing or off-ball instead? And only 1 is shorter than 6’3”! I’ll take it a step further is there enough point guards on this roster for next yr. We know Riley and Berger aren't pgs. Is Carey a true point guard on the big east level? also Beard if he keeps his commitment is considered a combo guard as well. Staff is recruiting a few point guard still in the 21 class sitting pretty well with Collins and Smith. I think we are recruiting a point guard and still Mutombo as well with one scholarship left.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by RBHoya on Aug 3, 2020 9:33:45 GMT -5
So based on the current roster, here are the guards in 21/22 Carey, Sr. Harris, So. Berger So. Clark, So. Beard, Fr. Riley, Fr. All of these players have played some point and had play-making responsibilities. Do we have enough play-making? Who can’t play on the wing or off-ball instead? And only 1 is shorter than 6’3”! I’ll take it a step further is there enough point guards on this roster for next yr. We know Riley and Berger aren't pgs. Is Carey a true point guard on the big east level? also Beard if he keeps his commitment is considered a combo guard as well. Staff is recruiting a few point guard still in the 21 class sitting pretty well with Collins and Smith. I think we are recruiting a point guard and still Mutombo as well with one scholarship left. Debates over whether or not someone is "a true point guard" are such a time honored Hoyatalk off-season tradition First, I'm pretty certain that both Harris and Beard are under 6'3. Also, as to the idea that "we know Berger isn't a pg"--I'm not so sure. I think HE thinks of himself as a point guard. Hoyatalk and our fanbase seemed to watch his video and quickly dismiss that possibility at the Big East level. As far as what Patrick and staff think, only time will tell. To me, there are some parallels between Berger and Jonathan Wallace--from originally being bound for the Ivy League to having a somewhat unconventional but highly effective outside shot. We know Jon was a 4 year starter at point guard in the (old) Big East despite the fact that he didn't have the elite quickness to regularly beat guys off the dribble or the athleticism to rise up and dunk. We also know that he was a good fit for JT3's system, where the half-court offense was largely running through Jeff and wasn't dependent on a point guard to break down the defense and create. Patrick's offense is obviously a little more conventional in that sense. But could Berger be a steady backup point guard for us, capable of handling the ball, making smart plays, and keeping defenses honest with his outside shooting? I certainly don't think it's impossible. After watching all of the video of him I could find, including interviews, my gut tells me that he's a leader and he's someone who understands the game enough to compensate for the fact that he's not an above-average athlete at this level. I'm interested to follow his career, and I wouldn't be so quick to assume he doesn't log some point guard minutes. More generally, I don't think we have a need to add another point guard in 2021. It's very possible that if a kid we really like (ie. Frankie Collins) wants to come that we'd take him anyway and let the chips fall as they may. I'd guess Collins, Smith and Brantley may still be in the equation. But other than that, assuming Beard's commitment is still firm, I don't think we have a need at point. Somewhere between Harris, Beard, Berger and maybe Carey we will find 40 point guard minutes next season. And though the future is obviously very uncertain, there are a lot of good (and local) 2022 options at point guard too. We have offers out to 2022 point guards at 4 WCAC schools alone--McDaniel at Paul VI, Mintz and Dinkins at Gonzaga, Rice at Dematha, and Lewis at O'Connell. With that sort of talent crop locally, you have to think we're well-positioned to add another solid point guard in 2022, so no reason to overload the position in '21.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Aug 3, 2020 9:44:49 GMT -5
Re: Ewing's offense relying on a traditional PG. I'm not sure that's necessarily proven. We've primarily seen Ewing's offense when his star player was a traditional PG who wanted/expected the ball to be in his hands. Other than half a--very weird--season after Akinjo transferred, we haven't seen Ewing with a team without a player who dominated the ball and was the "star" of the team.
Considering who he's targeted in recruiting, I suspect Ewing doesn't necessarily want or require that offense. If he gets that type of talent, he'll build the offense around it. But if there's a season this year, I suspect Ewing will away from a PG oriented offense.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 10:11:27 GMT -5
So based on the current roster, here are the guards in 21/22 Carey, Sr. Harris, So. Berger So. Clark, So. Beard, Fr. Riley, Fr. All of these players have played some point and had play-making responsibilities. Do we have enough play-making? Who can’t play on the wing or off-ball instead? And only 1 is shorter than 6’3”! - Carey has 1 year. - Harris & Berger have to prove they're not the longshots that the services (pros?) have deemed them. We should get a good look at them this year, but that's probably too late for making the call on a '21 recruit. - Clark probably isn't a guard, even if he has some guard skills on the offensive end. - Beard - hopefully he's here in '21. - Riley - def in the mix - seems like a 2/3. Unless we end up w/ only our 1 current open spot & a big fish (Mohammed, Baldwin, Holmgren, Reid/Kepnang) joins, I think Collins or Malachi are prioritized over the other 3/4 star guys we're looking at. But I also don't think we'll end up w/ one, so... I think we'll add another guard and another big.
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Enough?
Aug 3, 2020 10:23:35 GMT -5
Post by RockawayHoya on Aug 3, 2020 10:23:35 GMT -5
So based on the current roster, here are the guards in 21/22 Carey, Sr. Harris, So. Berger So. Clark, So. Beard, Fr. Riley, Fr. All of these players have played some point and had play-making responsibilities. Do we have enough play-making? Who can’t play on the wing or off-ball instead? And only 1 is shorter than 6’3”! - Carey has 1 year. - Harris & Berger have to prove they're not the longshots that the services (pros?) have deemed them. We should get a good look at them this year, but that's probably too late for making the call on a '21 recruit. - Clark probably isn't a guard, even if he has some guard skills on the offensive end. - Beard - hopefully he's here in '21. - Riley - def in the mix - seems like a 2/3. Unless we end up w/ only our 1 current open spot & a big fish (Mohammed, Baldwin, Holmgren, Reid/Kepnang) joins, I think Collins or Malachi are prioritized over the other 3/4 star guys we're looking at. But I also don't think we'll end up w/ one, so... I think we'll add another guard and another big. Agree with all of this, but doesn't Carey have 2 years of eligibility remaining (grad transfer)?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 10:29:49 GMT -5
- Carey has 1 year. - Harris & Berger have to prove they're not the longshots that the services (pros?) have deemed them. We should get a good look at them this year, but that's probably too late for making the call on a '21 recruit. - Clark probably isn't a guard, even if he has some guard skills on the offensive end. - Beard - hopefully he's here in '21. - Riley - def in the mix - seems like a 2/3. Unless we end up w/ only our 1 current open spot & a big fish (Mohammed, Baldwin, Holmgren, Reid/Kepnang) joins, I think Collins or Malachi are prioritized over the other 3/4 star guys we're looking at. But I also don't think we'll end up w/ one, so... I think we'll add another guard and another big. Agree with all of this, but doesn't Carey have 2 years of eligibility remaining (grad transfer)? Yes - but I'm just saying w/ regards to a '21 recruit.
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blazers32
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Aug 3, 2020 10:58:56 GMT -5
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Post by blazers32 on Aug 3, 2020 10:58:56 GMT -5
I think one player with transfer. I hope not but guarantee times we live in. Would but us at 2 scholarships. Hopefully we can get both Smith or Collins and a guy like Mutombo. Some may not agreed but we pretty much have to take mutombo.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by RBHoya on Aug 3, 2020 13:15:10 GMT -5
- Harris & Berger have to prove they're not the longshots that the services (pros?) have deemed them. We should get a good look at them this year, but that's probably too late for making the call on a '21 recruit. Another scenario to consider would be that we give D. Harris and/or Berger some backup point guard minutes this year behind J. Harris. If it doesn't seem like either of them are ready to move into a starting role the following year, and if all of the other high school targets (Collins et. al) have committed elsewhere, we could look at bringing in another grad transfer next spring. If Harris or Berger looks ready to be a starter by their sophomore year, great. But if not, I don't know that we need to devote 2 scholarships to point guards (Beard + 1 other) in the '21 class to feel that we have the position secured. You hope that between Harris, Berger and Beard one of them seems ready to take the reigns, but a grad transfer is a feasible safety net if that doesn't happen. That would enable you to have some coverage while the others continue to improve, and still keep the scholarship open for the '22 class. The scholarship for the grad transfer would likely open via transfer or other departure next spring once the pecking order is a little bit more established. Given that we've brought in multiple guys at the same positions in the same classes a few times, reasonable to think that one or more of the guys who lose those PT battles will decide to move on, especially if they relax the redshirt year.
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hoyaroc
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Aug 3, 2020 21:42:36 GMT -5
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Post by hoyaroc on Aug 3, 2020 21:42:36 GMT -5
Tyler Beard is our future point guard. Let’s stay positive Hoya nation.
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dense
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Aug 3, 2020 22:34:02 GMT -5
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Post by dense on Aug 3, 2020 22:34:02 GMT -5
Berger is the type of guard you have when you have ball dominant wings. You want someone who is a knockdown shooter. If Riley has a ball dominant role, a guy like Berger might be great to pair with him
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Aug 3, 2020 23:02:25 GMT -5
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Post by bornhoya on Aug 3, 2020 23:02:25 GMT -5
Berger is the type of guard you have when you have ball dominant wings. You want someone who is a knockdown shooter. If Riley has a ball dominant role, a guy like Berger might be great to pair with him That’s why u don’t want him handling the ball. His best asset is his shooting don’t wanna handcuff him from spotting up
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hoyaroc
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Aug 3, 2020 23:25:52 GMT -5
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Post by hoyaroc on Aug 3, 2020 23:25:52 GMT -5
Berger is the type of guard you have when you have ball dominant wings. You want someone who is a knockdown shooter. If Riley has a ball dominant role, a guy like Berger might be great to pair with him That’s why u don’t want him handling the ball. His best asset is his shooting don’t wanna handcuff him from spotting up Exactly! Let the playmakers make plays and the role players fill their role.
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dense
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Aug 4, 2020 0:02:49 GMT -5
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Post by dense on Aug 4, 2020 0:02:49 GMT -5
Berger is the type of guard you have when you have ball dominant wings. You want someone who is a knockdown shooter. If Riley has a ball dominant role, a guy like Berger might be great to pair with him That’s why u don’t want him handling the ball. His best asset is his shooting don’t wanna handcuff him from spotting up I think if you have guys like Riley and say a Mohammed you can not expect the PG to be a traditional one and role. The point guard might bring it up some but its muted. Berger plays that way for his high school team. Both he and Warley handle the ball as the PG, but Warley does it more. Thats kinda what I meant. Most of it, depends on what kinda player Harris is. Beard can play point as well but he plays more like a Westbrook type where its pedal to the metal. Go 100 mph, where he is looking to attack for himself and is a willing passer.
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