HoyaNCCT
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
We will remind them.
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Post by HoyaNCCT on Jul 14, 2005 10:30:13 GMT -5
Looks like the Sweetney / Kwame deal is off as Kwame just went to the Lakers for Caron Butler and either Chucky Atkins or Devean George.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jul 14, 2005 10:33:12 GMT -5
Who would want Kwame Brown? Not only does he seem like a jerk, but he doesn't seem to be nearly the talent that he was once thought of. Am I missing something?
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HoyaNCCT
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
We will remind them.
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Post by HoyaNCCT on Jul 14, 2005 10:37:07 GMT -5
I definitely agree. The guy is a waste. I'm a Knicks fan - glad that we haven't shipped Sweets out - especially for Kwame. I hope we hold on to Sweets.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by RBHoya on Jul 14, 2005 10:43:22 GMT -5
Knicks also signed Jerome James to a 5 year deal.
Somebody for Mike to hit the treadmill with.
With that contract you have to think Isiah plans on starting Jerome at center, which could mean Sweets will battle Channing Frye for a starting spot.
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aggypryd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by aggypryd on Jul 14, 2005 11:24:55 GMT -5
It seems like once a player leaves the "BooLays", their career takes off.
I look for Kwame to be a solid contributor to the Lakers…
He’ll never be the 1st or 2nd option…so all he has to do is rebound and defend…
He’s very athletic…with some tutelage, I’m expecting him to blossom into a decent player…
If he can control his off-the-court issues, then he’ll be OK…
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Jul 14, 2005 11:49:00 GMT -5
It seems like once a player leaves the "BooLays", their career takes off. I look for Kwame to be a solid contributor to the Lakers… He’ll never be the 1st or 2nd option…so all he has to do is rebound and defend… He’s very athletic…with some tutelage, I’m expecting him to blossom into a decent player… If he can control his off-the-court issues, then he’ll be OK… I agree with your post. Most bullets become allstars after they get shipped somewhere else i.e. Weber, Howard, Hashweed Wallace, Ben Wallace, God Shamgod . . uhhhh woops.  That's what made last season so special; we had two allstars and hughes would have been named had he not broken his hand. Kwame is extremely athletic, which is why it's been so frustrating to be a bullets fan recently. He has a misconception of his role and importance on the team and to the league in general, but if Phil can keep get him in line I still think he could be a starter at PF somewhere down the line. |
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyarooter on Jul 14, 2005 12:38:36 GMT -5
This thread should probably be on the Pro Sports board, but in any event, I agree with hoyalove. As a Laker fan of long, long time standing, I think this is one of the worst trades they have made. Yes, worse than the Shaq deal, because that was forced on them to a certain extent.
Yes, there is a chance that Kwame will get his head together. And a better chance that he won't. If this trade goes down in its most likely form, the Lakers will be trading 29 points a game for a guy that averaged 7 last season, and has lots of issues. Plus, once the Lakers release Grant, the Shaq deal will boil down to Shaq for Odom, Kwame and a first. Nice job, Mitch. Unless they make more dramatic moves, look for them to finish closer to the celler than the playoffs.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Jul 14, 2005 12:48:09 GMT -5
I think it's not a bad move for the Lakers. They got Brown for a 2 year deal and if he pans out, great. If not, they moved some contracts to clear room when Ming and Stoudemire are FA's in 2 years. So they either get a player or they get Cap room. And it's always better to give a 6'11 kid a chance to redeem himself over having a ton of 6'5 players who are similar.
This deal either helps the Lakers or is much ado about nothing. I don't see it as one that kills Lakers in any way. Wizards get a replacement for Hughes in Butler and some depth in either Atkins/George. Decent deal for both, but worth the gamble if you are LA due to Brown not having a long term deal and basically having this run to prove himself worthy as a player in the league.
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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Jul 14, 2005 13:37:37 GMT -5
Totally agree with RDF if the contracts that have been traded offer the option of freeing up cap room when Ming and Stoudemire are free agents. As disappointing as Kwame has been, he's got some serious upside. If it doesn't pan out, he's tradeable in the second year of the deal and more money will be available to woo free agents.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jul 14, 2005 15:21:32 GMT -5
DOES he have serious upside, though? I don't live in DC and therefore don't watch the Bullets very much. He had a rep as a freaky athlete coming out of HS, but I never saw that. Guys who are tall, nasty athletes-- i.e. KG-- stand out as such even before they're good. I never saw that from Brown, but perhaps I haven't watched closely enough.
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JimmyHoya
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Post by JimmyHoya on Jul 14, 2005 15:50:57 GMT -5
Kwame isn't agressive like KG..he kinda stands around, always uncomfortable, looking for his spots, which inevitably never show up.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 14, 2005 18:23:22 GMT -5
Did my research at NBA.com to get the stats on Jerome James, Kwame Brown and Mike Sweetney for the ’04-’05 season. Here are the results.
JEROME JAMES
Minutes - 16.6
Points – 4.9
FG% - .509
Free throws per game - .8 (65 in 80 games)
FT% - .723
Rebounds – 3
Assists - .2
Steals - .29
Blocks – 1.2
KWAME BROWN[/u]
Minutes - 21.6
Points - 7
FG% - .460
Free throws per game – 3.07 (played in just 42 games)
FT% - .574
Rebounds – 4.90
Assists - .9
Steals - .60
Blocks - .36
MIKE SWEETNEY
Minutes – 19.6
Points – 8.4
FG% - .531
Free throws per game– 3.44 (77 games)
FT% - .749
Rebounds – 5.40
Assists - .6
Steals - .35
Blocks - .36
So with similar minutes Sweetney is better than the other two in most categories. And here are some other key points:
1)Sweets has only been in the league for two seasons. Brown though has been in the nBA for four and James has been around for at least six.
2)Sweets’ numbers for the ’04-’05 season is an improvement over those in his previous season (his rookie year). The other two players can’t say the same.
3)James and Brown were actually in contract seasons! And that’s all they gave their respective teams.
I’m happy that Sweetney wasn’t traded to the Wizards but I’m ticked off that the Wizards were supposedly not excited by him. After he killed the Wizards twice this past season they should know better. It isn’t about style points, its about effectiveness. Sweetney may be the shortest and less athletic of the three, but he is easily the most effective in the paint on offense and actually has go to moves. His fg% is one of the best in the league and he does that without dunking on most of his attempts. The negative is that Sweets IMO played much better before he got injured. Once he came back he really started to put on weight and his assists, for some reason, really went down. And of course he fouls too often. But he still had a better year than these two other guys. The Wizards actually wanted Sweets and at least a first rounder for Brown? What the hell has Brown ever done to be worthy of that?
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jul 14, 2005 22:11:09 GMT -5
I think it's not a bad move for the Lakers. They got Brown for a 2 year deal and if he pans out, great. If not, they moved some contracts to clear room when Ming and Stoudemire are FA's in 2 years. So they either get a player or they get Cap room. And it's always better to give a 6'11 kid a chance to redeem himself over having a ton of 6'5 players who are similar. This deal either helps the Lakers or is much ado about nothing. I don't see it as one that kills Lakers in any way. Wizards get a replacement for Hughes in Butler and some depth in either Atkins/George. Decent deal for both, but worth the gamble if you are LA due to Brown not having a long term deal and basically having this run to prove himself worthy as a player in the league. Sorry, I don't agree with this. The Lakers had 3 good players, and now they have 2. I do think they will add another guard to replace Atkins, but I think the most likely result is that Brown is mediocre at best, the Lakers stink but end up with lots of cap room, and Yao and Amare stay put. Drafting Bynum and trading for Brown are big time gambles for the Lakers, and I doubt that either will pay major dividends. I also wonder how Brown will adapt to the triangle. If I see Medvedenko starting at power forward and Brown sitting on the bench, I'm going to scream. |
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jul 14, 2005 23:19:11 GMT -5
Taking a chance on bigs is like taking a chance on pitchers in baseball or QB's in football--it's hard to find great players so you see teams gamble. I personally would rather have my team gamble on Bynum and Brown then have Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins or Devean George--this comes from years of watching Allen Iverson stuck with mid sized guys who can't get rebounds or defend the post in critical situations. And in basketball it's a lot easier to replace SF/SG types then it is to find an athletic Big Man.
While Brown isn't a star, he's 6'11 and has some ability. Bynum is more questionable of the two but it's a no lose situation under new Cap--you don't have to risk much and have cap cleared.
In regard to Stoudemire, Steve Nash isn't getting any younger and how many years will that style of play hold up in Phoenix?? I wish it was commonplace in NBA as it's fun to watch, but it's not going to win a championship until they play defense. Lakers could very well attract him more than Phoenix come 2 years from now.
I think Phil Jackson is worth 5-8 wins himself this year and remember before the Rudy illness and Bryant getting hurt, the Lakers were likely to make Playoffs as a 7/8 seed. Brown would be in his Rookie Year if he went to College and Caron Butler's shown what he is---good player but nothing special. You've got Bryant, Odom, and some Cap Room. You've also got a more athletic and younger frontcourt in Mihm, Turiaf, Bynum, Brown, Walton, and Odom. Key is to get an upgrade at PG and see if they can get improvement from the Yugo they drafted last year--who showed flashes of some good play.
Lakers will win 42-44 games this year in my opinion but are moving in right direction away from Divac, and slew of SG/SF types. Los Angeles will attract Free Agents and Kobe's about to enter his Prime, so they'll be better than most think and unless you have a dominant big, it's not bad to try and go young and rotate bigs--until you find something there.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 15, 2005 0:36:21 GMT -5
I am sure that this post will get moved, however, I'd just like to add mt $0.02 - What were the Lakers thinking? I realize they see a need at the 5 spot in their offense, but bringing a big baby to Los Angeles is not the answer. If the Wizards thought that DC was tough for Kwame to handle, wait until he gets a whiff of Sunset, Rodeo, Malibu, etc. - IMO they gave up way more than they got - Sweetney is a much better player than Kwame. This is honestly a Clippers-esque move that really makes me question whether Jerry Bus has started calling the shots in LA (to the detriment of his own franchise) since Jerry West left the organization. In addition, one can assume that Kobe Bryant approved this trade - what was he thinking?
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 15, 2005 7:09:58 GMT -5
If Jackson is still coaching the Lakers in two years why would Stoudemire ever join that team? In Phil's triangle scheme the only way for a big man to get a lot of touches is if he in the paint and plays with his back to the basket. That would limit Stoudemire's game. I just don't see it. Stoudemire is about to become an advertising force. He doesn't need the L.A. market
Oh, and by the way Yao really loves the Houston area. That team will have to have major disappointments this upcoming season before Yao decides to abandon the Houston Rockets.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Jul 15, 2005 8:33:50 GMT -5
Also, not only was Sweets better than these two clowns, but he was one of the most efficient players in the league overall. This website puts some numbers behind it with their Efficiency Rating (EFR) in which they combine stats and divide by minutes played. Sweetney is #32 among PF in the league...just behind Ben Wallace. www.basslinespin.com/efrfour.htmSweetney is #32 among PF -- .524 James is #61 among C -- .387 Kwame is #121 among PF -- .360 Here is a breakdown of the equation they use and the base. www.basslinespin.com/2005ASbThoughts.htm |
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Post by ][-][ 0 `/ /-\ 5 on Jul 15, 2005 9:59:33 GMT -5
Can someone please explain why Lebron was listed as a pf?
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jul 15, 2005 13:05:39 GMT -5
I'm not opposed to the Lakers trading Butler per se, but I would have much preferred that they get more for he and Atkins than a headcase who brings a load of personal baggage with him. I hope Brown matures, blossoms and proves me wrong, but I definitely don't see him as another Jermaine O'Neal, as Brown has had way more opportunity in DC than O'Neal had in Portland, and all he has succeeded in doing is antagonizing his coaches and teammates and getting suspended from the playoffs.
RDF, I agree with you that Phil is worth a handful of wins. And the Lakers' performance last year was certainly compromised by signficant injuries to both Kobe and Odom. But I don't think they would have made the playoffs even if healthy last year, because they never played even half decent defense last year, and they had a killer schedule in the last 6 weeks which would have compromised their chances even if at full strength. And, barring further developments, this year's personnel is worse. So I wish Phil luck.
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That's what made last season so special; we had two allstars and hughes would have been named had he not broken his hand.
