rockhoya
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May 17, 2020 18:02:39 GMT -5
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Post by rockhoya on May 17, 2020 18:02:39 GMT -5
Yes, plenty of championship teams, but I'm not going to look for you because height/length has been discussed ad nauseam here. From experience, IMO it's an excuse for lack of cojones. Uconn's last championship had two small guards but the team still played very well defensively... L'ville with Russ Smith & Peyton Siva also come to mind... Yep, those are about two of the only examples I can think of too....both backcourts had better defensive players (and throughout the rest of the roster). I wonder how those teams did defending the perimeter and which area they sacrificed focus on to make sure the rest of the defense was tight. Those four guards were also all objectively at least as good or better than our guards on the offensive end...
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rockhoya
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May 17, 2020 18:05:15 GMT -5
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Post by rockhoya on May 17, 2020 18:05:15 GMT -5
Fair I think there are a few examples but not plenty and even so it’s about the right mix of players. And like I said for the scheme WE run, the short guards have been the biggest killer. They might’ve done better with different schemes. Whether or not we should be employing a scheme that exposes our backcourt like that is another question, but I’m of the mind “if you build it they will come”. Ewing tried to hammer squares into circles and it did not work. But I think the fact that he’s working on creating the circles is the important part, hopefully he’s gone out and gotten the right pieces. And I agree with you it does have something to do with cojones, and unfortunately one of our 6’1” guards had little defensive awareness and little cojones on that end. Which one? They were awful. Rock, it's pretty simple. It has been documented that for a long time other teams make fun of our defense and how soft our team is. Until that changes, the scheme does not matter. Cojones... The new recruits look promising. Our players have changed over the years and players have shuffled in and out....JT3s teams were called soft...not these ones. Different years different personnel. A scheme doesn’t make players soft, individual personnel do and if anything the personality of your coach. You’re talking about years past, that’s long in the past. We’re not good on defense right now because we don’t have the personnel. We did at the beginning of the season we just didn’t have a chance to see the pieces come together.
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rockhoya
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May 17, 2020 18:05:43 GMT -5
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Post by rockhoya on May 17, 2020 18:05:43 GMT -5
Uconn's last championship had two small guards but the team still played very well defensively... L'ville with Russ Smith & Peyton Siva also come to mind... Exactly. I posted about them on a championship list several years ago when another poster was trying to make the same point. But are there other examples you can point to that aren’t literal outliers and the exception to the rule?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 17, 2020 18:12:11 GMT -5
Which one? They were awful. Rock, it's pretty simple. It has been documented that for a long time other teams make fun of our defense and how soft our team is. Until that changes, the scheme does not matter. Cojones... The new recruits look promising. Our players have changed over the years and players have shuffled in and out....JT3s teams were called soft...not these ones. Different years different personnel. A scheme doesn’t make players soft, individual personnel do and if anything the personality of your coach. You’re talking about years past, that’s long in the past. We’re not good on defense right now because we don’t have the personnel. We did at the beginning of the season we just didn’t have a chance to see the pieces come together. Kansas was very good a few years back with Graham & Mason... Joel Berry & Marcus Paige a few years back were good defensively according to KenPom. Honestly, there'll be a lot if we really went thru it...
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on May 17, 2020 18:27:03 GMT -5
Exactly. I posted about them on a championship list several years ago when another poster was trying to make the same point. But are there other examples you can point to that aren’t literal outliers and the exception to the rule? Both Villanova teams weren't particularly tall. I think Brunson/Arch and Brunson/Booth were the starters. Arch is the tallest of the three listed at 6'3". They were longer at the three (6'5" and 6'6") but I wouldn't consider that tall. Also, the UVA team that won it all started 5'9" Kihei Clark, 6'5" Ty Jerome, 6'1" Kyle Guy, 6'7" DeAndre Hunter, and 6'9" Mamadi Diakite. I wouldn't consider that tall at all. To compare, our lineup late season had the heights of 6'3" Terrell Allen, 6'4" Jahvon Blair, 6'3" Jagan Mosely, 6'8" Jamorko Pickett, and 6'11 Qudus Wahab. I wouldn't say the height is the problem. A really small Arkansas team last season was elite at defending the three. Inside not so much, but they were #1 in the country in three point defense while starting 6'1", 6'3", 6'5", 6'5" and 6'6" for most of their games. I think more height could and would help, but I think the defense would improve a ton with some schematic adjustments. I think the press (mentioned earlier in this thread) will help if implemented, but I think there needs to be changes in the half court defense.
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saxagael
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May 17, 2020 19:02:42 GMT -5
Post by saxagael on May 17, 2020 19:02:42 GMT -5
The fouls and baskets come off of the hard hedge not being run well. Toward the end of the season it was run well, bigs weren't getting fouls off it as they were no longer out of position be getting too high on coverage. If run well it can save energy, cut off eacy pick-and-rolls, and not get easy shots from three or driving to the lane off a pick up top. It isn't about roster as much as it is having players learn it and stay disciplined in it. I know high school level travel teams that run it really well with with 15U on up, which allows them to compete with bigger, faster, and better shooting teams if the other team starts trying to run pick and rolls a lot. Run that a few times well and the other team shifts to other schemes in their possessions. The hedge run properly is the big never getting even or on to the point guard, but use their size to disrupt and roll back with arms up shutting down the inside pass and not allowing the guard to get to the basket. Not setting even with the guard also lets your own guard get back in position. When Omer went down, it wasn't stopped running, it was getting run correctly and more discipline needed to run it. Omar could run it well, but he often was getting caught too high or even with the guard (do that and you are sunk). Like jwp wrote, paraphrasing, we'll know next year if it's the roster or the scheme. Our hard hedge for most of the season before Omer went down looked exactly alike the previous two years under Pat with Govan and Trey with similar defensive rating results. Omer, Qudus, and Tim got caught fouling with their hips, hands, legs or manhood 25 feet from the basket. It changed once Omer went down and we had to be more conservative, while using the same scheme. Why were our players fouling 25 ft from the basket? Who is responsible? My question to you is why did it take so long to run properly? Again, what should be the bar on defense next season (whenever that is)? The complete misunderstanding around hard hedge is it isn't a defensive master plan it is a 2 to 5 second scheme run in a defensive possession when hit with a pick and roll. It is run 8 to 15 times a game. When Georgetown had two fouls off of it or were caught because it was run poorly 2 or 3 times they ran it correctly the other 3 to 12 times. By the end of the season they didn't have any lapses with it. The other 25 seconds of defense are not hard hedge. People in the board were getting heated and blaming a 2 to 5 defensive scheme for things that had nothing to do with it. A lot of the fould away from the ball have to do with Georgetown getting run through a ton of screens. The Big East loves its screens. Most of those fouls have to do with players not communicating and talking with each other. The first two years Patrick had a non-defensive center who needed help defense to cover the middle and using schemes to shift at the edges, which lead to a lot of troubles with wide open shots. Also there were issues with weak side players coming too deep and not getting back out and a backside screen on the players in too deep and players foulding to get back out. Last year a lot of the issues was screens, not picks (which a hard hedge is used on up top). Having just one long wing last year after the exodus made things really tough. When JTIII left the long wings were gone. Pickett was about it after Derrickson left. Derrickson was not the most agile, but much of the time he was able to run help in the middle to cover for Jesse and also get back out, but doing that all game there will be a few plays the player get burned. Adding Leblanc helped on that front, but it was just mostly Leblanc with that capability as Pickett was shifting position and really lost on defense a lot. This past year after the exodus it was just Pickett with length defending out and other teams had 2 or more players that needed more size against tham. Mosely has been an utter beast playing in that role to cover players much bigger.
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rockhoya
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May 17, 2020 19:17:59 GMT -5
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Post by rockhoya on May 17, 2020 19:17:59 GMT -5
Our players have changed over the years and players have shuffled in and out....JT3s teams were called soft...not these ones. Different years different personnel. A scheme doesn’t make players soft, individual personnel do and if anything the personality of your coach. You’re talking about years past, that’s long in the past. We’re not good on defense right now because we don’t have the personnel. We did at the beginning of the season we just didn’t have a chance to see the pieces come together. Kansas was very good a few years back with Graham & Mason... Joel Berry & Marcus Paige a few years back were good defensively according to KenPom. Honestly, there'll be a lot if we really went thru it... Yeah good examples I guess - though when’s the last time UNC and Kansas has inconsistent team defenses over a long period (not too long). And those examples - players more physically talented and equipped to defend than Mackinjo, which is my main focus because I think those two are really the main pieces that have held us back as the head of the snake.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on May 17, 2020 19:20:48 GMT -5
Defense going forward...?
Patrick has long wanted to run full pressure defense with solid bigs rim running to get back and protect the middle. Omar wasn't exactly that big, but Iggy and Wahab are perfect for that. Patrick also lacked guards, other than Mosely and then later in the season Blair who could reliably defend end to end well. This year there are four new guards, two wings, and getting a possibly still thin and long red shirt on the floor at power forward.
Patrick has the numbers and athletic players (not positive about the how athletic all the new guys are) to run end to end pressure with mostly man coverage in half-court offenses. The length will be there on the wings that hasn't been there for a whole season the past three years. The guards half court defense is still going to be a big question.
There is a lot of youth, not much chemistry, and not sure who the Mosely is going to be that can be a tenatious beast battling through 2 to 3 screens to stay with his man with tough tight defense.
The rest is is unknowns, to some degree.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on May 17, 2020 19:22:57 GMT -5
But are there other examples you can point to that aren’t literal outliers and the exception to the rule? Both Villanova teams weren't particularly tall. I think Brunson/Arch and Brunson/Booth were the starters. Arch is the tallest of the three listed at 6'3". They were longer at the three (6'5" and 6'6") but I wouldn't consider that tall. Also, the UVA team that won it all started 5'9" Kihei Clark, 6'5" Ty Jerome, 6'1" Kyle Guy, 6'7" DeAndre Hunter, and 6'9" Mamadi Diakite. I wouldn't consider that tall at all. To compare, our lineup late season had the heights of 6'3" Terrell Allen, 6'4" Jahvon Blair, 6'3" Jagan Mosely, 6'8" Jamorko Pickett, and 6'11 Qudus Wahab. I wouldn't say the height is the problem. A really small Arkansas team last season was elite at defending the three. Inside not so much, but they were #1 in the country in three point defense while starting 6'1", 6'3", 6'5", 6'5" and 6'6" for most of their games. I think more height could and would help, but I think the defense would improve a ton with some schematic adjustments. I think the press (mentioned earlier in this thread) will help if implemented, but I think there needs to be changes in the half court defense. Fair, but again I started this discussion focusing how the lack of length in the backcourt has affected OUR scheme, not other teams’. But I wa a curious about other examples out there. I guess another way to ask it is to ask for the specific cases again with regards to who had similar natural ability as our guards? And the similar level of inexperience. But really the length. I don’t have the energy to look up those other guards but I’m not sure if many around here realize both Mac and Akinjo’s wingspans were essentially as long at their heights iirc. It wasn’t clear but I’m focusing mainly on Mac and Akinjo here because they had the lion share of minutes at the head of the snake while we still had an actual serviceable roster (despite how hard they worked and how incredibly proud I was of them, no it’s not serviceable when you can only play 6-7 scholarship players and your best two players with all league talent get hurt). I think that those two pieces in particular don’t mesh with that Ewing is trying to do on defense but he played so much them because they were our offense.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 17, 2020 19:41:49 GMT -5
Kansas was very good a few years back with Graham & Mason... Joel Berry & Marcus Paige a few years back were good defensively according to KenPom. Honestly, there'll be a lot if we really went thru it... Yeah good examples I guess - though when’s the last time UNC and Kansas has inconsistent team defenses over a long period (not too long). And those examples - players more physically talented and equipped to defend than Mackinjo, which is my main focus because I think those two are really the main pieces that have held us back as the head of the snake. Joel Berry & Marcus Paige aren't more physically talented than Akinjo & Mac in my view... Neither of Akinjo or Mac was the leads on defense either, the bad defense was a group effort...
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on May 17, 2020 19:57:04 GMT -5
Yeah good examples I guess - though when’s the last time UNC and Kansas has inconsistent team defenses over a long period (not too long). And those examples - players more physically talented and equipped to defend than Mackinjo, which is my main focus because I think those two are really the main pieces that have held us back as the head of the snake. Joel Berry & Marcus Paige aren't more physically talented than Akinjo & Mac in my view... Neither of Akinjo or Mac was the leads on defense either, the bad defense was a group effort... Just from a defensive standpoint you don’t think so? You’re right they’re pretty comparable, but I think both have better defensive attributes (cojones/iq) and collectively I think they have around 6+ inches more wingspan between them than Mackinjo. I liked Akinjo’s defense I really do. I thought he could be a plus defender because of his attitude and he was good at angles and moving his feet, but at this level those strengths really got mitigated by his lack of explosion and strength. And I’m not trying to move the goalposts, but all I’m seeing is examples of national champions and blue bloods where the coaches were there 10-15+ years and already had an established defensive system in place. Part of this discussion originated within the context of discussing the merits of Ewing’s defensive identity, and the way I see it is he had to play two ill fitting pieces on that end because of how effective they were on offense. I look forward to having better balance moving forward and hopefully less minute management determined by desperation. No expectations this next season and hopefully we come out swinging. I don’t know, I see it as Mac and Akinjo (and Omer slightly) running counter to the type of player Ewing wants on his defense (by what he’s said and shown) and I think he only played them out of necessity because their carried the load on offense. I guess tbd and I haven’t broken down all aspects of our defense, but I do know Akinjo and Mac basically had no margin of error against 85% of our schedule. And again, not because of lack of height but really below average length.
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Defense
May 17, 2020 20:26:47 GMT -5
Post by professorhoya on May 17, 2020 20:26:47 GMT -5
Yes, plenty of championship teams, but I'm not going to look for you because height/length has been discussed ad nauseam here. From experience, IMO it's an excuse for lack of cojones. Uconn's last championship had two small guards but the team still played very well defensively... L'ville with Russ Smith & Peyton Siva also come to mind... Russ Smith 6-1 but 6-3.5 wingspan and blazing speed as well.
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kbones17
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Post by kbones17 on May 17, 2020 21:05:48 GMT -5
I hope that PE saw the value of switching up defensive looks to keep the opponent off balance. Last season he experimented a lot more with 2-3 zone (often out of timeouts and left it on until the team scored their first basket), along with the full court pressure and “soft press.” I do think the shorter rotation and veteran guards (after exodus and injuries) playing the whole game allowed that to take place, but my eyes saw some improvement (from bad to ok) before the fatigue, and playing walkons eventually doomed us in the seconds half’s of games. I really hope we settle on a 8 or 9 core unit next year and stay committed to mixing up defensive looks.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 17, 2020 21:09:37 GMT -5
Joel Berry & Marcus Paige aren't more physically talented than Akinjo & Mac in my view... Neither of Akinjo or Mac was the leads on defense either, the bad defense was a group effort... Just from a defensive standpoint you don’t think so? You’re right they’re pretty comparable, but I think both have better defensive attributes (cojones/iq) and collectively I think they have around 6+ inches more wingspan between them than Mackinjo. I liked Akinjo’s defense I really do. I thought he could be a plus defender because of his attitude and he was good at angles and moving his feet, but at this level those strengths really got mitigated by his lack of explosion and strength. And I’m not trying to move the goalposts, but all I’m seeing is examples of national champions and blue bloods where the coaches were there 10-15+ years and already had an established defensive system in place. Part of this discussion originated within the context of discussing the merits of Ewing’s defensive identity, and the way I see it is he had to play two ill fitting pieces on that end because of how effective they were on offense. I look forward to having better balance moving forward and hopefully less minute management determined by desperation. No expectations this next season and hopefully we come out swinging. I don’t know, I see it as Mac and Akinjo (and Omer slightly) running counter to the type of player Ewing wants on his defense (by what he’s said and shown) and I think he only played them out of necessity because their carried the load on offense. I guess tbd and I haven’t broken down all aspects of our defense, but I do know Akinjo and Mac basically had no margin of error against 85% of our schedule. And again, not because of lack of height but really below average length. Yes, you are. Greatly I might add... Seems to me you're only calling them ill-fitting because they're gone now...
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rockhoya
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May 17, 2020 21:23:32 GMT -5
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Post by rockhoya on May 17, 2020 21:23:32 GMT -5
Just from a defensive standpoint you don’t think so? You’re right they’re pretty comparable, but I think both have better defensive attributes (cojones/iq) and collectively I think they have around 6+ inches more wingspan between them than Mackinjo. I liked Akinjo’s defense I really do. I thought he could be a plus defender because of his attitude and he was good at angles and moving his feet, but at this level those strengths really got mitigated by his lack of explosion and strength. And I’m not trying to move the goalposts, but all I’m seeing is examples of national champions and blue bloods where the coaches were there 10-15+ years and already had an established defensive system in place. Part of this discussion originated within the context of discussing the merits of Ewing’s defensive identity, and the way I see it is he had to play two ill fitting pieces on that end because of how effective they were on offense. I look forward to having better balance moving forward and hopefully less minute management determined by desperation. No expectations this next season and hopefully we come out swinging. I don’t know, I see it as Mac and Akinjo (and Omer slightly) running counter to the type of player Ewing wants on his defense (by what he’s said and shown) and I think he only played them out of necessity because their carried the load on offense. I guess tbd and I haven’t broken down all aspects of our defense, but I do know Akinjo and Mac basically had no margin of error against 85% of our schedule. And again, not because of lack of height but really below average length. Yes, you are. Greatly I might add... Seems to me you're only calling them ill-fitting because they're gone now... No, I’m actually being diplomatic/courteous and trying to have a productive and constructive conversations rather than call out your supporting examples as I see them - unfit and unconvincing. I only asked you to give me general examples because I knew you couldn’t actually come up with similar comparisons. Like I pointed out you’re comparing apples to oranges. Experience matters too, the youth and inexperience that Mac and Akinjo had, combined with their natural shortcomings and lack of an established defensive scheme/unit behind them was unlike those examples you mentioned and even then you chose some of the best (defensive) coaches in the game...as far as I’m concerned pulling the obvious outliers and exceptions isn’t good evidence. Like I said some of those back courts are in the ballpark, but in all of those examples you can understand where the difference in defensive ability comes from. Height/length is one component in harping on, but again it’s within the context of our team and our players. The mentality Mac and Akinjo has on defense made them play small. They played small on defense. And they also happened to be small have below average length. Even those other backcourts you mentioned like Paige/Berry had at least average length. And that’s without even thouching in the fact that our SF (aka also part of the backcourt) has been 6’3” for two years while they were here.... And that’s cool how it may seem to you, but that’s not reality. I’ve realized it was a problem since their first few games in the blue and gray because it’s obvious they lack length (btw allllll those guards you mentioned are longer than both Mac and Akinjo). I had hopes they might be able to grow into it but realized Ewing was not going to adjust his scheme to mask their deficiencies, well rather he didn’t have the personnel to. He said he would’ve never recruited Govan and Yurt was a little better but still a player you take even if he doesn’t fit into your defensive philosophy (not picking on our centers just pointing out you can’t have below average resistance at the top and at the rim and expect a sound defense). So not only lacked length up top but I’m talking about that in relation to the rest of our roster. Hopefully this year he finally puts the pieces together that he’s been wanting. Smh how I miss Josh. Kid was an animal on D. He needed to put on some strength to play to his full abilities but he was well on his way.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 17, 2020 22:07:02 GMT -5
Yes, you are. Greatly I might add... Seems to me you're only calling them ill-fitting because they're gone now... No, I’m actually being diplomatic/courteous and trying to have a productive and constructive conversations rather than call out your supporting examples as I see them - unfit and unconvincing. I only asked you to give me general examples because I knew you couldn’t actually come up with similar comparisons. Like I pointed out you’re comparing apples to oranges. Experience matters too, the youth and inexperience that Mac and Akinjo had, combined with their natural shortcomings and lack of an established defensive scheme/unit behind them was unlike those examples you mentioned and even then you chose some of the best (defensive) coaches in the game...as far as I’m concerned pulling the obvious outliers and exceptions isn’t good evidence. Like I said some of those back courts are in the ballpark, but in all of those examples you can understand where the difference in defensive ability comes from. Height/length is one component in harping on, but again it’s within the context of our team and our players. The mentality Mac and Akinjo has on defense made them play small. They played small on defense. And they also happened to be small have below average length. Even those other backcourts you mentioned like Paige/Berry had at least average length. And that’s without even thouching in the fact that our SF (aka also part of the backcourt) has been 6’3” for two years while they were here.... And that’s cool how it may seem to you, but that’s not reality. I’ve realized it was a problem since their first few games in the blue and gray because it’s obvious they lack length (btw allllll those guards you mentioned are longer than both Mac and Akinjo). I had hopes they might be able to grow into it but realized Ewing was not going to adjust his scheme to mask their deficiencies, well rather he didn’t have the personnel to. He said he would’ve never recruited Govan and Yurt was a little better but still a player you take even if he doesn’t fit into your defensive philosophy (not picking on our centers just pointing out you can’t have below average resistance at the top and at the rim and expect a sound defense). So not only lacked length up top but I’m talking about that in relation to the rest of our roster. Hopefully this year he finally puts the pieces together that he’s been wanting. Smh how I miss Josh. Kid was an animal on D. He needed to put on some strength to play to his full abilities but he was well on his way. 1st L'ville & Uconn were outliers, then when Kansas & UNC were added then it changed to "they're not quite like Akinjo & Mac". You have to know that we'll never be able to find an exact match, the fact that we pretty quickly came up with 4 or 5 should have sufficed in my opinion but now I see that it was only a goose chase because no example would have been ok to you even after you call them good examples. Very strange way to operate... To me, the poor defense is a team thing. PE's 1st team had 6-4 Mulmore, 6-3 Mosely & 6-4 Blair getting the most minutes with 6-8 Pickett getting the SF minutes and the team was terrible defensively but that was blamed on the bigs mainly Govan. Which was the wrong thing to do btw.. At some point, a staff has to tailor the defense to the team it has in my opinion but I can agree to disagree...
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prhoya
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Defense
May 17, 2020 23:42:05 GMT -5
Post by prhoya on May 17, 2020 23:42:05 GMT -5
I hope that PE saw the value of switching up defensive looks to keep the opponent off balance. Last season he experimented a lot more with 2-3 zone (often out of timeouts and left it on until the team scored their first basket), along with the full court pressure and “soft press.” I do think the shorter rotation and veteran guards (after exodus and injuries) playing the whole game allowed that to take place, but my eyes saw some improvement (from bad to ok) before the fatigue, and playing walkons eventually doomed us in the seconds half’s of games. I really hope we settle on a 8 or 9 core unit next year and stay committed to mixing up defensive looks. I agree, but use how many players you need. Two big factors that would improve our defense, no matter what scheme, are leadership and chemistry (which helps for better communication between the players). We haven't had that in Pat's 3 years. Govan was pretty much silent and a non-leader, Derrickson was the same and didn't stay, then Mackinjo arrived and Govan played like he could care less about the freshmen and the freshmen could care less about each other on the court. Finally, this year everything imploded and the seniors stuck their necks out to help as much as they could. Now, they're gone and the junior class exploded. What do we return in terms of upperclassmen leadership and better communication between players? Two role players that will need to step up to be leaders, which is easier said than done.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on May 17, 2020 23:54:52 GMT -5
No, I’m actually being diplomatic/courteous and trying to have a productive and constructive conversations rather than call out your supporting examples as I see them - unfit and unconvincing. I only asked you to give me general examples because I knew you couldn’t actually come up with similar comparisons. Like I pointed out you’re comparing apples to oranges. Experience matters too, the youth and inexperience that Mac and Akinjo had, combined with their natural shortcomings and lack of an established defensive scheme/unit behind them was unlike those examples you mentioned and even then you chose some of the best (defensive) coaches in the game...as far as I’m concerned pulling the obvious outliers and exceptions isn’t good evidence. Like I said some of those back courts are in the ballpark, but in all of those examples you can understand where the difference in defensive ability comes from. Height/length is one component in harping on, but again it’s within the context of our team and our players. The mentality Mac and Akinjo has on defense made them play small. They played small on defense. And they also happened to be small have below average length. Even those other backcourts you mentioned like Paige/Berry had at least average length. And that’s without even thouching in the fact that our SF (aka also part of the backcourt) has been 6’3” for two years while they were here.... And that’s cool how it may seem to you, but that’s not reality. I’ve realized it was a problem since their first few games in the blue and gray because it’s obvious they lack length (btw allllll those guards you mentioned are longer than both Mac and Akinjo). I had hopes they might be able to grow into it but realized Ewing was not going to adjust his scheme to mask their deficiencies, well rather he didn’t have the personnel to. He said he would’ve never recruited Govan and Yurt was a little better but still a player you take even if he doesn’t fit into your defensive philosophy (not picking on our centers just pointing out you can’t have below average resistance at the top and at the rim and expect a sound defense). So not only lacked length up top but I’m talking about that in relation to the rest of our roster. Hopefully this year he finally puts the pieces together that he’s been wanting. Smh how I miss Josh. Kid was an animal on D. He needed to put on some strength to play to his full abilities but he was well on his way. 1st L'ville & Uconn were outliers, then when Kansas & UNC were added then it changed to "they're not quite like Akinjo & Mac". You have to know that we'll never be able to find an exact match, the fact that we pretty quickly came up with 4 or 5 should have sufficed in my opinion but now I see that it was only a goose chase because no example would have been ok to you even after you call them good examples. Very strange way to operate... To me, the poor defense is a team thing. PE's 1st team had 6-4 Mulmore, 6-3 Mosely & 6-4 Blair getting the most minutes with 6-8 Pickett getting the SF minutes and the team was terrible defensively but that was blamed on the bigs mainly Govan. Which was the wrong thing to do btw.. At some point, a staff has to tailor the defense to the team it has in my opinion but I can agree to disagree... Good post. Rock, you keep mentioning Mackinjo as lacking X or Y, but they were Pat's recruits. If he missed on them as fits for his defense, it's Pat's fault. If those were the best players he could get, then he needed to adjust his defense to protect or hide these so-called deficiencies. That said, personnel issues as to fit are strictly the coach's fault. BTW, I see that Pat yet again has recruited several short guards. Obviously, he does not think that is an issue like you do. Let's see what he does with them.
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prhoya
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Defense
May 18, 2020 0:19:03 GMT -5
Post by prhoya on May 18, 2020 0:19:03 GMT -5
Which one? They were awful. Rock, it's pretty simple. It has been documented that for a long time other teams make fun of our defense and how soft our team is. Until that changes, the scheme does not matter. Cojones... The new recruits look promising. Our players have changed over the years and players have shuffled in and out....JT3s teams were called soft...not these ones. Different years different personnel. A scheme doesn’t make players soft, individual personnel do and if anything the personality of your coach. You’re talking about years past, that’s long in the past. We’re not good on defense right now because we don’t have the personnel. We did at the beginning of the season we just didn’t have a chance to see the pieces come together. Agree to disagree. Surprisingly, we have been bad on defense under Pat because, among other things, we have soft defenders (Govan, Omer, Trey, Mac, Akinjo, Blair, Malinowski, etc...). He couldn't inspire the inherited bigs Govan and Mourning to play better defense. Then again, Blair showed some defense he hadn't shown before. Let's hope everyone picks up their defensive game, including the coaching staff.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 18, 2020 14:03:10 GMT -5
To me, it is absolutely astonishing that anybody can blame the players and not the scheme. It is pretty clearly the scheme, though I will admit that we have had some weak defenders. And, I truly mean that based simply on objective facts, as I very badly want Ewing to fix this problem. I am going to repeat some of what I recently said in another thread, but I think it's pertinent to this topic.
First, under Ewing our defense has been ranked 119, 133, and 125. In my opinion, the roster during that period stayed somewhat steady, though arguably improved from Season 1 to Season 2, and we saw no discernible difference. People blamed Govan a lot in years 1 and 2, then pivoted to Yurtseven. It makes sense that a new coach might have trouble implementing a new scheme quickly. But after three years?
Second, no other Big East coach has had sub-100 defenses for three consecutive seasons, including Leitao, except for Cooeley, who did at Fairfield, but then radically improved (and only has had one sub-100 year at Providence). This shows that, at the high-major level, you absolutely do not need a top 20 roster to put out a decent defense. This alone points heavily to scheme. I mean, what else is it? Is Ewing just unlucky?
Third, Chris Mullin's defenses were ranked 122, 131, 29, and 106. We are on a path to eclipse this after this coming year, as I do not think anybody expects us to have a 29th or better ranked defense this season.
Fourth, what immediately changed from 2017 to 2018 when Ewing took over the roster, with most of the same players? Our defense of two point shots went down significantly, from 70 to 174. Our three point defense got measurably worse, from 50 to 161 (and this past year was 313!), and allowing 3 point attempts went from 44 to 257 (299 this past year).
So basically, across the Board, our defense immediately took a turn for the worse under Ewing, and in a lot of ways has gotten even worse since then. We do not need another season of fitting square pegs in round holes. It's clearly the scheme, and the scheme needs to change.
(For those who think I am beating up on Ewing, I should note that generally he has had great free throw shooting teams, his teams have actually shot threes better than JT3's latter teams, and offensive rebounding has been a good bit better, as well. But, the problem is these are all offensive improvements.)
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