Dayton Did It

[drquigley]

For all of the Board members who despair that we are now a perennial second rate basketball school I offer the Dayton Flyers. An 8,500 student, Jesuit college ended the year #3 in the nation. As I keep pointing out, basketball isn't football or soccer. One or two NBA caliber players, 3-4 good supporting players, and a good coach and badda boom badda bing you are playing for a national championship. It's not that hard, JT3 did it in 3 years. Especially now when the world seems to be crumbling around us let's retain our perspective. In fact, if you really want to see something that sucks consider the Dayton alum who has been waiting for years for a team like they had this year. Figure Toppin goes to the NBA and you may have seen a dream season just evaporate.

[Bigs"R"Us]

Get back to me when we land two or more NBA players, because that’s what it takes to get to a Final Four.

[EtomicB]

Mar 21, 2020 11:04:02 GMT -5 Bigs"R"Us said:

Get back to me when we land two or more NBA players, because that’s what it takes to get to a Final Four.

In my opinion, it's much more about developing players than landing them...

It'll be a rarity for Gtown to land one & done type players especially after the NBA changes its rule on HS players...

The key to the game for programs like Gtown is to get the best players they can and then develop those kids into the best players they can be...

[prhoya]

Get back to me when we have an experienced head coach like Dayton’s... well, in GU’s case, the Administration will allow and wait for Pat to get that head coaching experience on the fly. Prior to taking over at Dayton, its coach had 9 seasons as a head coach of a college program (VCU and Alabama) and some NBA assistant coaching experience. It’s up to Pat to learn what it takes to build a winner before the noise picks up.

[C86]

"An 8,500 student, Jesuit college ended the year #3 in the nation."

Dayton is not Jesuit. The Jesuit school in Southern Ohio is Xavier.

The information coming out about the college coach bribery scandal makes me pessimistic that GU can land the talent necessary to compete.

[DFW HOYA]

Mar 21, 2020 11:38:26 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Get back to me when we have an experienced head coach like Dayton’s... well, in GU’s case, the Administration will allow and wait for Pat to get that head coaching experience on the fly....It’s up to Pat to learn what it takes to build a winner before the noise picks up.

The window on Ewing's learning curve is narrowing, and quickly.

It's less about the on-court results than those off it. When times were good, Georgetown could afford to eat the losses in attendance and the lack of NCAA tournament credits over the last 5-7 years as an investment in "The Way Things Have Always Been". Times aren't so good anymore. The University stands to refund over $10 million in housing fees alone. On-campus (staff and non-tenured faculty) employment is bound to take a hit, and the endowment itself will be cut by any reasonable measure, putting pressure on every existing cost center.

As of 2019, Georgetown had the 11th largest basketball budget in Division I per public records. None of the ten above it have as bad a four year stretch--Georgetown is a combined 63-64 since 2016-17--by contrast, the team just ahead of it in budget is Michigan State, with a four year record of 104-36. To expect Georgetown to maintain its level of spending in the next few years demands either a) considerably more ticket and donor revenue, neither of which seems likely; or b) considerably better results, including regular NCAA tournament appearances, to justify the investment. The largest piece of that budget is coaching salaries.

If Georgetown stumbles into another Wednesday night at the 2021 Big East Tournament (a third in four years and six out of the last eight), the pressure will be on "The Way Things Have Always Been", no matter who's sitting in the chair.

[Bigs"R"Us]

No one’s throwing money at this product, tickets or donations. It’s not like stocks, you don’t buy low.
To clarify my earlier point, you need at least two (preferably three) future NBA players on your roster to have a good chance at the Final Four. Doesn’t have to be one-and-dones, could be four-year guys.

[Nevada Hoya]

Dayton is a Marianist university.

[drquigley]

Mar 21, 2020 13:23:33 GMT -5 Bigs"R"Us said:

No one’s throwing money at this product, tickets or donations. It’s not like stocks, you don’t buy low.
To clarify my earlier point, you need at least two (preferably three) future NBA players on your roster to have a good chance at the Final Four. Doesn’t have to be one-and-dones, could be four-year guys.

Exactly. No one expected Roy Hibbert or Jeff Green or Otto Porter to be one and dones. Who knows if Mac won't be our next NBA player or if one of the incoming Frosh will be.

[justsaying]

Mar 21, 2020 12:48:01 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Mar 21, 2020 11:38:26 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Get back to me when we have an experienced head coach like Dayton’s... well, in GU’s case, the Administration will allow and wait for Pat to get that head coaching experience on the fly....It’s up to Pat to learn what it takes to build a winner before the noise picks up.

The window on Ewing's learning curve is narrowing, and quickly.

It's less about the on-court results than those off it. When times were good, Georgetown could afford to eat the losses in attendance and the lack of NCAA tournament credits over the last 5-7 years as an investment in "The Way Things Have Always Been". Times aren't so good anymore. The University stands to refund over $10 million in housing fees alone. On-campus (staff and non-tenured faculty) employment is bound to take a hit, and the endowment itself will be cut by any reasonable measure, putting pressure on every existing cost center.

As of 2019, Georgetown had the 11th largest basketball budget in Division I per public records. None of the ten above it have as bad a four year stretch--Georgetown is a combined 63-64 since 2016-17--by contrast, the team just ahead of it in budget is Michigan State, with a four year record of 104-36. To expect Georgetown to maintain its level of spending in the next few years demands either a) considerably more ticket and donor revenue, neither of which seems likely; or b) considerably better results, including regular NCAA tournament appearances, to justify the investment. The largest piece of that budget is coaching salaries.

If Georgetown stumbles into another Wednesday night at the 2021 Big East Tournament (a third in four years and six out of the last eight), the pressure will be on "The Way Things Have Always Been", no matter who's sitting in the chair.

Dayton Thread

here we go again

another thread hijacked for personal views about staff

there are existing threads

[EtomicB]

Mar 21, 2020 21:31:35 GMT -5 justsaying said:

Mar 21, 2020 12:48:01 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

The window on Ewing's learning curve is narrowing, and quickly.

It's less about the on-court results than those off it. When times were good, Georgetown could afford to eat the losses in attendance and the lack of NCAA tournament credits over the last 5-7 years as an investment in "The Way Things Have Always Been". Times aren't so good anymore. The University stands to refund over $10 million in housing fees alone. On-campus (staff and non-tenured faculty) employment is bound to take a hit, and the endowment itself will be cut by any reasonable measure, putting pressure on every existing cost center.

As of 2019, Georgetown had the 11th largest basketball budget in Division I per public records. None of the ten above it have as bad a four year stretch--Georgetown is a combined 63-64 since 2016-17--by contrast, the team just ahead of it in budget is Michigan State, with a four year record of 104-36. To expect Georgetown to maintain its level of spending in the next few years demands either a) considerably more ticket and donor revenue, neither of which seems likely; or b) considerably better results, including regular NCAA tournament appearances, to justify the investment. The largest piece of that budget is coaching salaries.

If Georgetown stumbles into another Wednesday night at the 2021 Big East Tournament (a third in four years and six out of the last eight), the pressure will be on "The Way Things Have Always Been", no matter who's sitting in the chair.

Dayton Thread

here we go again

another thread hijacked for personal views about staff

there are existing threads

DFW's post was about the state of the program, not the staff...

[prhoya]

Mar 21, 2020 12:48:01 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

As of 2019, Georgetown had the 11th largest basketball budget in Division I per public records. None of the ten above it have as bad a four year stretch--Georgetown is a combined 63-64 since 2016-17--by contrast, the team just ahead of it in budget is Michigan State, with a four year record of 104-36. To expect Georgetown to maintain its level of spending in the next few years demands either a) considerably more ticket and donor revenue, neither of which seems likely; or b) considerably better results, including regular NCAA tournament appearances, to justify the investment. The largest piece of that budget is coaching salaries.

Link please.

[Bigs"R"Us]

The virus is swiftly impacting the economy and stock prices. Money could be tight all around. Folks tend to donate more when their portfolios have appreciated, have job security and the program is winning.

[DFW HOYA]

Mar 21, 2020 23:42:57 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Link please.

ope.ed.gov/athletics

In the end, I don't care if Dayton did "it", inasmuch as their 2020 finish will always be a what-if. The Atlantic 10 is a strange conference in that there are teams which really hit the bottom and stay there, giving a hot team the opportunity to run the table and pick up a great record for tournament time, but then fall off the national map entirely (UMass, GW, St. Joe's, more recently George Mason since it joined).

Outside of the bizarro world at DePaul, every Big East team is capable of competing for national recognition. For a variety of reasons, St. John's and Georgetown have not stepped forward in many years.

[drquigley]

Mar 22, 2020 9:03:58 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Mar 21, 2020 23:42:57 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Link please.

ope.ed.gov/athletics

In the end, I don't care if Dayton did "it", inasmuch as their 2020 finish will always be a what-if. The Atlantic 10 is a strange conference in that there are teams which really hit the bottom and stay there, giving a hot team the opportunity to run the table and pick up a great record for tournament time, but then fall off the national map entirely (UMass, GW, St. Joe's, more recently George Mason since it joined).

Outside of the bizarro world at DePaul, every Big East team is capable of competing for national recognition. For a variety of reasons, St. John's and Georgetown have not stepped forward in many years.

Good point about the A 10. Not having a TV contract probably is what hurts it the most. Fox switches from the BE to the A 10 and the situation might reverse in a few years. All about the Benjamins.

[paranoia2]

I like the class coming in already and expect it to grow. Patrick did not take the job for fun or a paycheck. Q, Pickett, Mac and Blair is a nice core returning & I personally think Tim Iguoefe is going to be a FORCE. Malcolm Wilson could be a rim protecting menace.

I think the staff w land a few more additions before the season. I believe they are a tournament team next season.

Patrick’s signature recruit will be a one and done type and could arrive in the next 2-3 years. There should be a solid team in place and hopefully they reach the mountaintop.

[EtomicB]

Mar 22, 2020 11:52:43 GMT -5 drquigley said:

Mar 22, 2020 9:03:58 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

ope.ed.gov/athletics

In the end, I don't care if Dayton did "it", inasmuch as their 2020 finish will always be a what-if. The Atlantic 10 is a strange conference in that there are teams which really hit the bottom and stay there, giving a hot team the opportunity to run the table and pick up a great record for tournament time, but then fall off the national map entirely (UMass, GW, St. Joe's, more recently George Mason since it joined).

Outside of the bizarro world at DePaul, every Big East team is capable of competing for national recognition. For a variety of reasons, St. John's and Georgetown have not stepped forward in many years.

Good point about the A 10. Not having a TV contract probably is what hurts it the most. Fox switches from the BE to the A 10 and the situation might reverse in a few years. All about the Benjamins.

Pretty sure the A10 has a TV contract with ESPN, their games are on the network a good amount...

As long as the BE has a contract with MSG, they'll always have bargaining power with the networks in my opinion...

[mdtd]

Mar 22, 2020 14:53:54 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Mar 22, 2020 11:52:43 GMT -5 drquigley said:

Good point about the A 10. Not having a TV contract probably is what hurts it the most. Fox switches from the BE to the A 10 and the situation might reverse in a few years. All about the Benjamins.

Pretty sure the A10 has a TV contract with ESPN, their games are on the network a good amount...

As long as the BE has a contract with MSG, they'll always have bargaining power with the networks in my opinion...

From what I remember, most A10 games were on ESPN+. If you want to be on a national scale, you have to be on the TV so people can see it. If everyone has a deal with ESPN, the Big 12, SEC, ACC, AAC etc. will be ahead of them. 

[EtomicB]

Mar 22, 2020 17:13:34 GMT -5 mdtd said:

Mar 22, 2020 14:53:54 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Pretty sure the A10 has a TV contract with ESPN, their games are on the network a good amount...

As long as the BE has a contract with MSG, they'll always have bargaining power with the networks in my opinion...

From what I remember, most A10 games were on ESPN+. If you want to be on a national scale, you have to be on the TV so people can see it. If everyone has a deal with ESPN, the Big 12, SEC, ACC, AAC etc. will be ahead of them. 

ESPN+ takes the games that aren't televised on either ESPN or CBS, as I posted before I watched more than a few A10 games live on one of the ESPN channels

www.sportspromedia.com/news/atlantic-10-conference-rights-espn-multi-year-deal-ott


“The Atlantic 10 and ESPN have had a long-term linear television agreement that has been a win-win for both parties,” said Atlantic 10 Commissioner Bernadette McGlade. “This additional agreement gives the Atlantic 10 and its membership unprecedented visibility on some of the best streaming technology in sports, and it gives ESPN+ a wealth of high-level collegiate sports content.”

[mdtd]

Mar 22, 2020 18:20:40 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Mar 22, 2020 17:13:34 GMT -5 mdtd said:

From what I remember, most A10 games were on ESPN+. If you want to be on a national scale, you have to be on the TV so people can see it. If everyone has a deal with ESPN, the Big 12, SEC, ACC, AAC etc. will be ahead of them. 

ESPN+ takes the games that aren't televised on either ESPN or CBS, as I posted before I watched more than a few A10 games live on one of the ESPN channels

www.sportspromedia.com/news/atlantic-10-conference-rights-espn-multi-year-deal-ott


“The Atlantic 10 and ESPN have had a long-term linear television agreement that has been a win-win for both parties,” said Atlantic 10 Commissioner Bernadette McGlade. “This additional agreement gives the Atlantic 10 and its membership unprecedented visibility on some of the best streaming technology in sports, and it gives ESPN+ a wealth of high-level collegiate sports content.”

Yeah, I remember looking for a few Dayton/URI/Richmond/Davidson/St. Louis games and seeing the ESPN+ tag next to them. I definitely watched a few games, but I remember looking for games and seeing this. Like, if I remember correctly Dayton's senior night game was on ESPN+ despite it being the Gameday game. That's when Toppin went between the legs during the game and just jumped over a kid and dunked it on him. But, I remember a good amount of games I wanted to watch were on ESPN+ and I think it really hurts the conference.