SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by SDHoya on Apr 27, 2020 15:03:03 GMT -5
Timing makes it appear Chudier was the plan B, and when Kerwin (and Murray) didn't come, Ewing was on the phone to say come on down.
Would be nice if Ewing could start closing the deal on a few more top ranked recruits--but should acknowledge that his recruiting plan appears to have plenty of Plan Bs, Cs, etc.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 27, 2020 15:18:09 GMT -5
Timing makes it appear Chudier was the plan B, and when Kerwin (and Murray) didn't come, Ewing was on the phone to say come on down. Would be nice if Ewing could start closing the deal on a few more top ranked recruits--but should acknowledge that his recruiting plan appears to have plenty of Plan Bs, Cs, etc. Everyone’s does...no need to acknowledge. That’s standard recruiting/life. These people don’t get to where they are by not knowing how to be prepared.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 27, 2020 15:25:15 GMT -5
Staff is scouting/recruiting tens of players at any given time, over a hundred targeted cases over the course of a year. You act like there isn’t enough energy to be spent on everyone... There's isn't enough energy for every recruit and who you spend the most time on matters a lot. We need to stop wasting that time on kids who will never come. Didn't we just latch onto Walton late anyways? I can't blame the staff for taking a swing late when all else seemed to not go our way. Right now, our biggest recruit is Mac. If he is back you greenlight him and let him take you where he can.
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by IDenj on Apr 27, 2020 16:03:43 GMT -5
Do we not recruit kids that UNC is recruiting right now because of our struggles? Yes. Any time spent on Chet Holmgren or Moussa Cisse or Frankie Collins is an absolute waste of time. Agree 100%.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Apr 27, 2020 16:22:25 GMT -5
Yes. Any time spent on Chet Holmgren or Moussa Cisse or Frankie Collins is an absolute waste of time. Agree 100%. Holmgren and Cisse, I agree. However, if we aren't going to be competitive on a kid like Collins (similar in rank to Walton, ~70-90 range), then I question what the hell some of our current assistants are good for, which I already have. That's the tier of talent we need to start hitting on consistently to successfully turn this around. And not just one every other year. The expectation should be more like 2 every year.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by LCPolo18 on Apr 27, 2020 17:47:35 GMT -5
Do we not recruit kids that UNC is recruiting right now because of our struggles? Yes. Any time spent on Chet Holmgren or Moussa Cisse or Frankie Collins is an absolute waste of time. If a 5 star recruit is interested in Georgetown, you want the coaching staff to turn him down before he decides? I get being down on the program right now, and being negative about recruiting. But you can't complain that the Hoyas aren't getting top talent, and then also complain that they are pursuing top talent. Collins came for an official visit during his junior year. I'm pretty sure that's he and Ryan are the first juniors to come for an official visit since maybe Derrickson? He's clearly interested in the program, but you don't want the staff to pursue him? Chet Holmgren came to Georgetown last June for an unofficial visit when he was in the DC area. Would you have preferred if Ewing told security to not allow him into the TAC? Moussa Cisse included Georgetown in his top 10, so he's clearly interested. His top 6 comes out this week, so if the Hoyas are included, you want the Hoyas to bow out anyway? This coaching staff gives out a lot of offers. I'm not sure if that will change given the supposed change in recruiting approach that started in December. But either way, just because someone has an offer, that doesn't mean that the coaching staff is devoting too much time to that recruit. Like I said, I understand being down on the program right now. But there's enough real stuff to be upset about that people need to stop making up stuff to be upset about as well.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Apr 27, 2020 18:25:47 GMT -5
Yes. Any time spent on Chet Holmgren or Moussa Cisse or Frankie Collins is an absolute waste of time. Agree 100%. I have to disagree here. I'm as frustrated as you with recruiting so far, but the three have expressed high interest in GU. Pat has to take that shot, but he has to be the lead recruiter. Leave teaching defense to someone else.
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoyainla on Apr 27, 2020 18:46:20 GMT -5
Holmgren and Cisse, I agree. However, if we aren't going to be competitive on a kid like Collins (similar in rank to Walton, ~70-90 range), then I question what the hell some of our current assistants are good for, which I already have. That's the tier of talent we need to start hitting on consistently to successfully turn this around. And not just one every other year. The expectation should be more like 2 every year. I agree the first 2 are in a different class than the last. If we can't compete for the level that Frankie is in then its time for a change. I think with him coming for a visit you keep pursuing. As for the other 2 we are always going to make some version of a short list because Pat is our coach. As I have mentioned before parents of this age group are likely much bigger fans and know of Ewing than the player. I am not sure if getting included but never getting is a good thing. I think Pat thinks he has a shot with all of these guys because of who he is. He probably should focus more in that 75-150 level unless there is some big tie like with Ryan although he's not quite at the level I worry about.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyarooter on Apr 27, 2020 18:53:19 GMT -5
We’re in this situation we’re in because half of our outgoing talent was fundamentally homesick and we lost a lot of pieces mid season. We would’ve had two straight years of exceeding rebuilding expectations if they had stayed. They didn’t. Not sure the question is talent evaluation/recruiting so much as it is retaining that talent at this juncture. Had those players stayed and we made the tournament (even just making the tourney with a healthy Omer/Mac), better believe we would be making a bigger splash in recruiting at this point. Staff is responsible for all of this. I realize there are some extenuating circumstances here but ultimately when you're in charge, your accountable for all of it. Find better kids, build better culture. Could it happen despite great kids/great culture, sure. But the last year still falls on his shoulders. That's the nature of the beast. Is Pat going to say that he's not responsible for anything?
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Apr 27, 2020 19:05:28 GMT -5
Yes. Any time spent on Chet Holmgren or Moussa Cisse or Frankie Collins is an absolute waste of time. If a 5 star recruit is interested in Georgetown, you want the coaching staff to turn him down before he decides? I get being down on the program right now, and being negative about recruiting. But you can't complain that the Hoyas aren't getting top talent, and then also complain that they are pursuing top talent. Yes. I want a program that spends time doing realistic things. Do we see Xavier, or Butler, or Seton Hall, or Providence chasing waterfalls every year like we do? Interest is not organic - this isn't the 1970's or 1980's where kids became interested in a program and contacted them directly. If those kids are listing Georgetown, it is because the staff has has spent a huge chunk of time courting them already. That time is a sunk cost. Let it go and focus locally.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 27, 2020 19:25:16 GMT -5
Holmgren and Cisse, I agree. However, if we aren't going to be competitive on a kid like Collins (similar in rank to Walton, ~70-90 range), then I question what the hell some of our current assistants are good for, which I already have. That's the tier of talent we need to start hitting on consistently to successfully turn this around. And not just one every other year. The expectation should be more like 2 every year. I agree the first 2 are in a different class than the last. If we can't compete for the level that Frankie is in then its time for a change. I think with him coming for a visit you keep pursuing. As for the other 2 we are always going to make some version of a short list because Pat is our coach. As I have mentioned before parents of this age group are likely much bigger fans and know of Ewing than the player. I am not sure if getting included but never getting is a good thing. I think Pat thinks he has a shot with all of these guys because of who he is. He probably should focus more in that 75-150 level unless there is some big tie like with Ryan although he's not quite at the level I worry about. Never getting? Be more dramatic. Recruiting hasn’t been the issue. And Pat has said on numerous occasions he knows his celebrity doesn’t mean anything so what in the world are you talking about? Ewing or not the prospective recruits are assessing the entirety of the program, and our head coach actually is one of the things we have going for us. Perception is that we can’t win right now and we’re a bit more strict as a school. Not to mention we have a smaller, less enthusiastic fan base in general. We’re easy to recruit against.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Apr 27, 2020 19:51:57 GMT -5
I agree the first 2 are in a different class than the last. If we can't compete for the level that Frankie is in then its time for a change. I think with him coming for a visit you keep pursuing. As for the other 2 we are always going to make some version of a short list because Pat is our coach. As I have mentioned before parents of this age group are likely much bigger fans and know of Ewing than the player. I am not sure if getting included but never getting is a good thing. I think Pat thinks he has a shot with all of these guys because of who he is. He probably should focus more in that 75-150 level unless there is some big tie like with Ryan although he's not quite at the level I worry about. Never getting? Be more dramatic. Recruiting hasn’t been the issue. And Pat has said on numerous occasions he knows his celebrity doesn’t mean anything so what in the world are you talking about? Ewing or not the prospective recruits are assessing the entirety of the program, and our head coach actually is one of the things we have going for us. Perception is that we can’t win right now and we’re a bit more strict as a school. Not to mention we have a smaller, less enthusiastic fan base in general. We’re easy to recruit against. Pat has never landed a 5 star so yes never. We just took a guy that went JUCO to NW State after quitting a mid major in 1 day. We let 3 guys accused of a crime play. Let’s calm down on this strict holier than tho narrative. What exactly coaching was is Pat bring to the table coaching wise that makes him one of the things we have going for us.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by LCPolo18 on Apr 27, 2020 20:24:56 GMT -5
If a 5 star recruit is interested in Georgetown, you want the coaching staff to turn him down before he decides? I get being down on the program right now, and being negative about recruiting. But you can't complain that the Hoyas aren't getting top talent, and then also complain that they are pursuing top talent. Yes. I want a program that spends time doing realistic things. Do we see Xavier, or Butler, or Seton Hall, or Providence chasing waterfalls every year like we do? Interest is not organic - this isn't the 1970's or 1980's where kids became interested in a program and contacted them directly. If those kids are listing Georgetown, it is because the staff has has spent a huge chunk of time courting them already. That time is a sunk cost. Let it go and focus locally. You want to focus locally but not on top recruits? Most of the top local players are top rated recruits so you're probably going to complain then too. If you actually backed up your assumptions, you would realize that the teams you mentioned pursue lots of highly rated recruits. Here's just the top 100 in 2020: Xavier - 1, 7, 17, 18, 24, 28, 30, 36, 37, 46, 48, 49, 52, 56, 57, 69, 76, 80, 84, 85, 87, 94, 97,98 Butler - 11, 18, 30, 43, 64, 69, 74, 81, 83 Seton Hall - 7, 8, 19, 27, 29, 31, 37, 40, 41, 45, 54, 67, 75, 82, 88, 92, 94, 98 Providence - 7, 27, 31, 32, 36, 65, 69, 75, 91, 94 Now if your argument was that the coaching staff needs to pick their spots with top rated recruits to ones that they have a certain connection with, then I would agree with you. But I think that's already what they're doing, hence why they're in it at the end. But I know I'm not going to change your mind. So if Ewing lands a top 50 recruit, then I just want you to admit you were wrong when that happens. Until then keep on coming up with contradictory recruiting strategies.
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Omega
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by Omega on Apr 28, 2020 0:29:09 GMT -5
Love the loser speak on this board.
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hoyaroc
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Post by hoyaroc on Apr 28, 2020 1:04:21 GMT -5
Love the loser speak on this board. I would not want go into battle with these losers. Walton stated he choose UNC for their amazing fan support and basketball environment.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 28, 2020 1:58:12 GMT -5
We don’t have a large alumni base or on campus arena and our conference was gutted. That doesn’t even factor in our past decade of performance. Villanova has proven you can still be successful as a small private school in the BE.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Apr 28, 2020 7:45:33 GMT -5
Love the loser speak on this board. I would not want go into battle with these losers. Walton stated he choose UNC for their amazing fan support and basketball environment. You're not going into battle with anyone, you're rooting for a minor league sports team which does things the same failing way year after year. Teams with limited resources need to do things differently, and from what I've seen of the Ewing era, we refuse to try much new.
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by IDenj on Apr 28, 2020 7:59:22 GMT -5
Love the loser speak on this board. I would not want go into battle with these losers. Walton stated he choose UNC for their amazing fan support and basketball environment. What battle are you going into? It amazes me how thin skinned some fans are. This program finished one spot ahead of DePaul. Until it improves we are a has been. It’s only a slump if you can break out of it.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Apr 28, 2020 8:11:45 GMT -5
Never getting? Be more dramatic. Recruiting hasn’t been the issue. And Pat has said on numerous occasions he knows his celebrity doesn’t mean anything so what in the world are you talking about? Ewing or not the prospective recruits are assessing the entirety of the program, and our head coach actually is one of the things we have going for us. Perception is that we can’t win right now and we’re a bit more strict as a school. Not to mention we have a smaller, less enthusiastic fan base in general. We’re easy to recruit against. Pat has never landed a 5 star so yes never. We just took a guy that went JUCO to NW State after quitting a mid major in 1 day. We let 3 guys accused of a crime play. Let’s calm down on this strict holier than tho narrative. What exactly coaching was is Pat bring to the table coaching wise that makes him one of the things we have going for us. Okay my point is it’s been a minute, if you expected him to reel one in in year one then maybe you’re the clown that was depending on his celebrity. Also, newsflash, he landed a 5 star in his second class. A) you have no idea why Bile left the program so stop acting like you do. B) they were accused of you take every accusation as fact you’re even more of a clown that I thought. C) it’s not a narrative sorry you can’t decipher reality and are tone deaf to real things that happen with our program. 7/10 other BE coaches would’ve just swept the whole thing under the rug, but there are several other examples out there you choose to ignore. You keep on asking people to spell things out for you. Newsflash, this isn’t a classroom and I’m not your mother. Learn yourself. Read the information that’s out there and readily available. Do better. And for the record, people can see right through all your nonsensical posts I’m not sure if you’re still in denial about that. Trying to wear other posters out with stupidity so they don’t respond so that you can view it as a “win” is not only not a strategy or things adults do but it’s incredibly lame and counterproductive.
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Apr 28, 2020 8:12:27 GMT -5
I would not want go into battle with these losers. Walton stated he choose UNC for their amazing fan support and basketball environment. You're not going into battle with anyone, you're rooting for a minor league sports team which does things the same failing way year after year. Teams with limited resources need to do things differently, and from what I've seen of the Ewing era, we refuse to try much new. In your view, did this year after year failing begin with Ewing or earlier than that?
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