KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Jan 22, 2020 22:03:56 GMT -5
We are becoming that team (along with DePaul and St. John's) that other Big East teams like to see on their schedules because they know they can probably get a win. And we have an annoying habit of having opposing players regularly post career games against us. Tough to take (and watch). The season isn't dead but it's much closer to life support than I thought.
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DallasHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,633
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Post by DallasHoya on Jan 22, 2020 22:32:27 GMT -5
The team is bad. The program is bad. Yes, the coach is bad. We are stuck in this Thompson debacle - and it doesn’t look to be getting better anytime soon. "I see no reason why Georgetown basketball can ever be as successful as it was." I’m afraid Billy Packer was right.
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 22, 2020 22:51:55 GMT -5
Have to admit that I turned on, saw the score was 17-5 Xavier, and decided to do something other than watch the rest of the game. I had no faith that this group could overcome an early 12 point deficit, given their recent play, and I'm sorry that I was right. I knew that if I devoted the better part of the next two hours to watching the game, given the slow start, my blood pressure would climb, my appetite would falter, and I'd have difficulty sleeping. It's sort of depressing that I made the choice to bail early...and that I even considered bailing as an alternative.
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miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
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Post by miracles87 on Jan 22, 2020 23:34:18 GMT -5
Are you struggling after another tough Hoya loss?
Do you find yourself questioning your will to root for the Hoyas?
Do you lie awake at night, unsure if Ewing can recover from the Hoyxit, and lamenting the lost decades of Hoya Basketball known as "The Thompson Era"?
STOP NOW, and call 1-800-Hoyacide- before it's too late! Helpful and knowledgeable Hoya fans are available 24/7 to recount the great players, teams, games and seasons from Georgetown's illustrious past! Our counselors are at the ready whether you want to talk about Charles Smith going coast to coast against the Cuse in '89, or giving Qudus Wahab some more early minutes in '20. At 1-800-Hoyacide, we take pride in helping Hoya fans in crisis find their way back to joyfully rooting for Georgetown Hoya Basketball!
Ahem
The rough starts are killing us. Beyond that, the effort and fight are certainly there, just got to come out firing a bit more.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 22, 2020 23:46:03 GMT -5
We just lack the tall athletic wings. Even if we were able to keep one of Myron or Galen we would be winning the majority of these game. The ideal scenario would have been for Akinjo to leave and for us to have been able to keep LeBlan, Myron and Galen. That team would have been scary good.
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Post by michaeldm9 on Jan 22, 2020 23:52:25 GMT -5
The team is bad. The program is bad. Yes, the coach is bad. We are stuck in this Thompson debacle - and it doesn’t look to be getting better anytime soon. WTF Record: 278–151 (.653) 3 Big East regular season (2007, 2008, 2013) Big East Coach of the Year (2013) Big East Tournament (2007) 2007 Final Four Yea a debacle!
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kbones17
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,186
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Post by kbones17 on Jan 22, 2020 23:55:40 GMT -5
We just lack the tall athletic wings. Even if we were able to keep one of Myron or Galen we would be winning the majority of these game. The ideal scenario would have been for Akinjo to leave and for us to have been able to keep LeBlan, Myron and Galen. That team would have been scary good. Yeah, maybe but that team wasn’t doing much before the departures (admittedly with Akinjo). I sure hope PE is learning from his mistakes, but I can’t say I have confidence that is the case.
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HoyaDr
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 616
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Post by HoyaDr on Jan 23, 2020 0:03:12 GMT -5
We just lack the tall athletic wings. Even if we were able to keep one of Myron or Galen we would be winning the majority of these game. The ideal scenario would have been for Akinjo to leave and for us to have been able to keep LeBlan, Myron and Galen. That team would have been scary good. I agree, we really suffer against teams with length.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,600
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Post by guru on Jan 23, 2020 0:04:23 GMT -5
The team is bad. The program is bad. Yes, the coach is bad. We are stuck in this Thompson debacle - and it doesn’t look to be getting better anytime soon. WTF Record: 278–151 (.653) 3 Big East regular season (2007, 2008, 2013) Big East Coach of the Year (2013) Big East Tournament (2007) 2007 Final Four Yea a debacle! Wasn’t referring to that thompson. Rather the one who still dictates how the program is run 20+ years after he was last relevant on the court
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on Jan 23, 2020 0:21:23 GMT -5
The defense wasn't great today (though it wasn't really bad either), though Xavier's offense in Big East play has been absolutely awful. Our offense wasn't great in the first half, but there was an improvement in the second half. Their length really helped and limited our guards, and they came out with that energy and fire I expected. It was a horrible spot. I don't understand this game being the one for the fire Ewing train to come out. If you want to say the team needs another assistant who specializes on that end of the floor, that's fine. But, it's one horrible spot game. I said the exact same thing before and after UNCG and Seton Hall, respectively. (I would use UNCG but, the defections happened then and I wasn't optimistic after that.) It's a bad spot against a good team and the team will recover. Butler is a much better spot. St. John's was a perfect spot. There are just games that this team will lose in bad spots, all teams do, and we have to accept that. I was one of the fewer people on here who thought this game was a lost cause. A week off to prepare for a team that if the Hoyas control the tempo, this Hoyas team can and probably will win. Then if the Hoyas take that game, what's the narrative?
Slow down. There's a lot of the season left. There will be good spots and there will be bad spots. "This is only January"
Also, a lot of overreaction here and on twitter about the Hoyas having to win this game. No they didn't. Creighton was pretty much a must win (momentum) and St. John's was a must win (momentum, good spot game, beatable opponent, opponent you would beat at least once to get to 8). The Hoyas have one home loss in conference. You win the rest of your home games, it's 8-10, the record to shoot for in the tournament. Now, hat won't happen in most cases, but is it beyond unreasonable that the Hoyas can take as many road games as home games they lose? It's a long season. Look at how last years Auburn team was at this point. They weren't sitting too pretty. Again, not saying that's this Hoyas team, but there is time.
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rlo24
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 337
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Post by rlo24 on Jan 23, 2020 1:47:30 GMT -5
It would be to hire Steve Forbes of East Tennessee State who is a master of reloading each year, especially from JUCO. And who is a defensive coach..I saw a quote of his "I recruit offense, but coach defense". How different? Your point is well taken, I think internally there may have been discussions about a change had those games not gone the way they did Again, I think today was just a bad spot. Xavier had all of the advantages and it just wasn't really hard to see. That being said, if Ewing wanted to leave for some reason, either Forbes or Wes Miller of UNCG (who would leave for UNC once Roy retires) would be excellent hires. But, there is no reason to talk about Ewing leaving and no reason for him to leave. He may need another assistant who can work with and set a really nice defense, like Luke Yaklich of Texas, who could really help Ewing. I think the big search should be for a nice defensive minded assistant this offseason. Looks like Forbes is already in the backyard anyway
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jan 23, 2020 3:13:52 GMT -5
Couldn't make shots. Couldn't rebound. Couldn't win loose balls. Couldn't pass. Couldn't show up... Much props to X for being ready after a week off, both their coaches and players. I hope we can do the same and actually show up for the game. This was a full team loss. Yes. We will have six days until Butler at home. Will we be ready to start the game? I’m not ready quite yet to pull the plug on the season. But a home loss to Butler, and it’s a wrap. 2-6 is just too big a hole for this depleted squad.
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madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,376
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Post by madgesiq92 on Jan 23, 2020 6:25:50 GMT -5
The team is bad. The program is bad. Yes, the coach is bad. We are stuck in this Thompson debacle - and it doesn’t look to be getting better anytime soon. "I see no reason why Georgetown basketball can ever be as successful as it was." I’m afraid Billy Packer was right. Billy Packer was wrong. We went to the Final Four 3 years after he made that statement. You can win at Georgetown.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 23, 2020 7:24:33 GMT -5
Right, but .500 on the nose almost surely would do it given the wins that would mean we have. It's too early to know for sure of course but I think 8-10 may well sneak us in. Yes, even that ain't easy, given what we've seen. But to call this season over is a bit much. 6-5 is certainly doable, no? If you look at the 6 most winnable games. at SJU, 2 Depaul, X home, Providence home, at Creighton. If we win all those I would say we have beaten 1 tourney team and Creighton would be far from safe with another loss to us. That is not a very impressive resume. No, it wouldn't be. But nobody we would be competing against would have one either. That's the thing. Everyone with an impressive resume is safely in these days. None of the last eight or so in the field are impressive. Your scenario would likely get us to three to four tier 1 wins (DePaul, SMU, STJ, Crei). That would be as many or more than virtually all our competitors. And no bad losses as of now with a very good SOS. (7-0 vs tiers 3-4). I wouldn't call it a lock but we would be right there if the last few years are a guide. Last year, the last seven in the field had the following records against tier 1 (2-2, 2-6, 3-3, 5-7, 4-10, 4-10, 4-10). We would be right in that mix. The first four out? UNC Greensboro (2-6), Alabama (3-10),TCU (3-9), Indiana (6-9). Again...in that mix but frankly with fewer warts due to the lack of bad losses.
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,527
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Post by IDenj on Jan 23, 2020 7:37:31 GMT -5
"I see no reason why Georgetown basketball can ever be as successful as it was." I’m afraid Billy Packer was right. Billy Packer was wrong. We went to the Final Four 3 years after he made that statement. You can win at Georgetown. You are right, you can win at Georgetown. You can win anywhere. The problem is, Hoyas aren’t. And it’s been too long. We are who our record says we are.
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rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 742
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Post by rhw485 on Jan 23, 2020 7:55:26 GMT -5
2nd game I had to watch on replay, so I’ll share in the blame being spewed at everyone in sight:
• Agree with other posters that this was a bad spot game and we knew that going in. Was hoping the team would take an “empty the tank” approach knowing we’re off for 6 days but we didn’t have it from jump
• Credit to coach Steele for going w the big lineup and benching Goodin. We weren’t prepared for it and didn’t capitalize by taking their slower bigs off the dribble (Allen tried a little in beginning but missed a drive at the rim). I’ve argued against Yurt7 / Q lineups together generally, if there was ever a game to try it though, it would’ve been this one.
• Xavier did things in half court defense that I’ve advocated for. They rarely hard hedged, they switched a few ball screens, otherwise they played drop coverage and stopped penetration. That basically forced us to just be a throw it into the post halfcourt offense. That limits the impact of Mosely, Allen, Pickett as they’re dependent on others to create shots for them
• Yurt7 had a bad game, he missed shots he normally makes. But man is he being held to an unrealistic standard. Consecutive 20/10 games against Creighton and Marquette, has a bad game tonight and people are posting that him leaving would be a blessing for the program? Maybe we’re just always going to hold centers to an unattainable level given our program’s history.
• It is still amazing to me that Ewing finds a way to have McClung and Yurt7 on the bench together when we have a 7 man rotation.
• I’ve harped on the defensive system, while defense wasn’t really the problem today, I’d still like to call out 2 plays where I think the impact of the hard hedge isn’t appreciated
o 1. The 3 by Scruggs to make it 26-8. High pick and roll, hard hedge by Hoyas. Blair has to help to ensure roller doesn’t get an easy basket. One pass to Scruggs, late closeout and he hits a 3. That’s a result of having to involve the 3rd defender to defend pick and roll when it shouldn’t be necessary.
o 2. The and-1 by Tandy that gets Yurt7 his 4th foul. Similar story, Allen has to crash down to help cover the roller, simple pass across. He has to go flying out at Tandy who attacks closeout. Yurt7 is running back so he’s not in position and commits a foul
The bigger questions about the program are understandable. To me, it doesn’t make too much sense talking about replacements / doomsday scenarios when we’re a win against Butler from probably still being projected in the field. The bubble always softens, 12 Big 10 teams will beat up on each other and open some spots. IF we miss the tourney then I’m happy to have the discussion because I agree year 4 looks to be worse. That was always going to be the bigger impact from the transfers. Determining how much blame to assign to the coaching staff for the transfers is difficult but that will probably decide how you feel about the staff in general
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,297
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Post by smokeyjack on Jan 23, 2020 8:00:16 GMT -5
Billy Packer was wrong. We went to the Final Four 3 years after he made that statement. You can win at Georgetown. You are right, you can win at Georgetown. You can win anywhere. The problem is, Hoyas aren’t. And it’s been too long. We are who our record says we are. Of course you can win at GU. The notion that you can’t is absurd. The issue is coaching and stagnant old guard. We need fiery new blood - the next JTJr. The roadmap is incredibly simple. Recruit the hell out of the DC/Balt area, play defense, snipe and run. No more playing through bigs or refusing to adapt to personnel. Fresh air!!!
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,550
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 23, 2020 8:11:28 GMT -5
Some reports suggest Goodwin tweaked his knee so it may not all have been a spectacular coaching gambit. Or, that could be cover for the kid.
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,527
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Post by IDenj on Jan 23, 2020 8:22:22 GMT -5
You are right, you can win at Georgetown. You can win anywhere. The problem is, Hoyas aren’t. And it’s been too long. We are who our record says we are. Of course you can win at GU. The notion that you can’t is absurd. The issue is coaching and stagnant old guard. We need fiery new blood - the next JTJr. The roadmap is incredibly simple. Recruit the hell out of the DC/Balt area, play defense, snipe and run. No more playing through bigs or refusing to adapt to personnel. Fresh air!!! I think Pat can still be that guy. Learning the ropes as a HC isn’t easy and takes time. Look at the top guys in CBB right now...they took their lumps early in their careers. But the staff... needs to be young and locally connected. Has to happen this spring.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,297
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Post by smokeyjack on Jan 23, 2020 8:36:04 GMT -5
Of course you can win at GU. The notion that you can’t is absurd. The issue is coaching and stagnant old guard. We need fiery new blood - the next JTJr. The roadmap is incredibly simple. Recruit the hell out of the DC/Balt area, play defense, snipe and run. No more playing through bigs or refusing to adapt to personnel. Fresh air!!! I think Pat can still be that guy. Learning the ropes as a HC isn’t easy and takes time. Look at the top guys in CBB right now...they took their lumps early in their careers. But the staff... needs to be young and locally connected. Has to happen this spring. I like a lot of what Pat has done. But his recruiting and refusal to adapt his approach and strategy (hedging/no zone/play through big) is very concerning. His stubbornness has served him well in some regards, and I’m glad he didn’t bow to a punk like Akinjo. But he needs to demonstrate more flexibility and agility in games. He played one possession, ONE, of zone last night, X got three rebounds and a putback because guys were adjusting to finding box out lanes, and he scrapped it. This team has ZERO chance to win if he can’t get Q and Yurt on floor together. That means playing some zone, PERIOD. Ahhhhhh! He’s maddening because it’s so obvious. And Iowa, just so we’re all in unison on this, the defections are his responsibility - his guys, his problem. I just see way too much bullheadedness for him to become a great coach. Coaches recruit to a plan and then adapt to parts in season. They have to. He’s trying to make Yurt a banger, Blair a lead guard, Morko more than a pure 3 nD. It won’t work. It’s so much easier for 1 coach to adapt than half a dozen players. Just basic logic.
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