lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Jul 7, 2005 17:10:36 GMT -5
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Jul 7, 2005 18:39:21 GMT -5
Cuse- Dead Cincy- Dead PC- Dead Rutgers- Dead UConn- Dead Marquette- Dead DePaul- Dead ND- Dead USF- Dead Nova- Dead SJU- Dead Niedermayer- Dead Mini-Ditka- Tie
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 7, 2005 18:48:25 GMT -5
Cuse- Dead Cincy- Dead PC- Dead Rutgers- Dead UConn- Dead Marquette- Dead DePaul- Dead ND- Dead USF- Dead Nova- Dead SJU- Dead Niedermayer- Dead Mini-Ditka- Tie The only team or person that this team won't beat is Bill Brasky.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 7, 2005 21:09:59 GMT -5
Home: Cincy - W - I think they're overrated headed into the season, and we should be able to outwit them.
SU - W - We'll be very hungry for this one. I expect BB to step up, given Shoegate and his senior leadership. We're playing for more than they are.
Pitt - W - As long as it does not snow on gameday, we will win. Pitt is losing Troutman, Krauser, and Taft. They have decent recruits, but not enough to make me worry too much about this one.
WVU - W - We match up well with WVU and play intelligent basketball like they do. We also have more talent. Edge to GU at home.
PC - W - As long as we figure out how to contain Randall Hanke, this is a W.
RU - W - Not this year...
SJU - L - I'm going to go out on a limb with this one. I like SJU as the surprise team of the NBE.
SFLA - W - They're bad, but not the worst in the NBE. That honor belongs to SHU.
Away
UCONN - L - Calhoun has our number, and I don't think we'll be able to sneak up on them on the road. At home, maybe. On the road, it is a tough proposition.
DePaul - W- They're coming off a rough offseason and whatever else. I think we'll be able to win this one.
Marquette - W - I expect a win here. They are not close to where they were a few years ago.
Villanova - L - This team may be the best in the country, if everyone is healthy. They will be very hungry after we ruined their celebration this year.
ND - L - ND is going to be a good team this year. I don't like playing them on the road.
WVU - L - I think we'll get Pittsnogled in this one.
SJU - W - We end the horrid streak in MSG.
SFLA - W - No comment.
I come out with 11-5 too. That will be competitive for an NCAA berth.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Jul 7, 2005 23:59:37 GMT -5
I think our losses will come @ UCon, @nova, @nd, @ WVU, and we'll drop one at home that we really shouldn't (possibly SJU or 'Cuse). That leaves us at 11-5.
If we take care of our business out of conference, we should be OK for an NCAA bid.
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TBird41
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"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Jul 8, 2005 2:22:13 GMT -5
Ummmm....11-5? Ok for an NCAA bid? Competitive for an NCAA berth? If we go 11-5 in the NBE, we're talking a 3 seed in the BET. Maybe a 2 seed. We'd have to lose almost all our games OOC to not be considered for an NCAA bid. I mean, our OOC schedule will make our RPI ridiculous. Then you factor in that we went 11-5 in the TOUGHEST CONFERENCE EVER? And we're merely being considered? No, my friends. If we go 11-5 in the BE, we are not merely being considered for the NCAAs, we're debating whether we want to play the Patriot League champ or the Horizen League Champ.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 8, 2005 3:15:05 GMT -5
Which would you prefer TBird? Oh wait I get it - you're saying we're being overly positive - no one has ever been accused of being overly optimistic when prognosticating on this board ...
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Post by mcnpa on Jul 8, 2005 11:40:54 GMT -5
As a SJU fan, I think that we'll be tougher than many people think. SJU lost nobody from last year, at that was a new team last season with a new coach and almost all frosh players.
This season Lamont Hamilton will likely move over to the PF spot, which should help him a ton. Aaron Spears, a former Illini player and big body will man the post. SJU who didn't have a true SF on the roster adds Anthony Mason Jr. who will be an immediate starter. SJU also didn't have a shooting guard that could hit the side of a barn last year, and adds highly ranked Ricky Torres and a JC who was supposed to start last year but red-shirted due to injury named Jermaine Maybank.
Last years SJU team had alot of grit, but was short on talent and size. The last two games of the season were lost to WVU and Nova by 3 points total. We add 5 new and much more talented kids this year.
Overall in the league, I think that SJU will suprise and be quite a bit better than people think. G-town is EASILY top 4 in my mind. Louisville returns only 3 players of consequence from last years team which is little more than SJU does. They do have Pitino though. Cuse also lost some HUGE players in Warrick, Pace, Forth etc... I don't see them being easily replaced. Pitt lost a ton as well. I know that their fans are predicting 20-win seasons, but I can see them dumping without any of their starters back.
I know that league predictions have L-ville, Uconn, Cuse and Nova on top, but as of now, I think that two top ones are Nova and WVU followed by G-town, Uconn, Cincy, Louisville, Cuse,SJU(yes SJU) and then down... . Uconn could be great, but their 2 guards are still in limbo, and they still did lose a bit from last year. JMO
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 8, 2005 11:49:15 GMT -5
I think UConn will still be very good -- too much size on the frontcourt, but as I said elsewhere, I can easily see St. John's beating out Cuse. Frankly, I would love to see Nova, SJU and the Hoyas at the top of the standings.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jul 8, 2005 11:55:28 GMT -5
Somewhere b/t 8-8 and 11-5; if you put a gun to my head I'd say 9-7, which would be a very good record given how tough the BE will be.
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Post by mcnpa on Jul 8, 2005 11:55:49 GMT -5
I think UConn will still be very good -- too much size on the frontcourt, but as I said elsewhere, I can easily see St. John's beating out Cuse. Frankly, I would love to see Nova, SJU and the Hoyas at the top of the standings. I agree, I'd like nothing more than the bball-only's reclaim the throne. Too bad that I think Seton Hall might be the league's worst team. Providence could go either way, but they have nobody to replace Gomes. Uconn will be great as long as they have their guards this season.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 8, 2005 12:01:17 GMT -5
We were where the Hall was a few seasons ago. Maybe even lower. We lost our Barrett in Sweetney (and we weren't even making the tourney!) and then had an awful year.
I do not know if Orr is a good, mediocre or bad coach. I think it is clear that he is not a great coach right now. He certainly is not a good enough recruiter to recruit successfully at the Hall. And he's having the same team turmoil problems that Esherick had.
In the end, coaches at this level are held to a different standard. It isn't about being fair, at least not in the sense of a fair shake where most of us work. These coaches know they need to be better than mediocre. And Seton Hall will likely fire Orr, fair or not.
If they hire the right person next, they will rise quickly. People were quick to call Georgetown and St. John's permanently dead. Simply not true.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jul 8, 2005 12:05:54 GMT -5
SJU still looks like a two man team for next year though, unless one of the frosh really steps up. And honestly, it's almost a one man team, because as Showtime goes, so go the Redmen. Like at MCI, Hill turned it over 10 times or so, and everytime they tried to make a run, he would mess up. And, of course, in MSG, he torched us. Hamilton is a nice player, but it strikes me that his shots are really dependent on Showtime penetrating and making good decisions. I've heard from some folks in NYC that Ricky Torres didn't have the year expected of him - you guys counting on him to produce next season? Mason is supposed to be good, but he really needs to transfer to Georgetown to continue building a replica of the early 1990's Knicks on the Hoya roster.
If Uconn has their guards, they're awesome. If they don't they're just good, but the point guard spot will kill them all year. I think Cuse will be better than we think. Roberts, Watkins, McCroskey, Josh Wright, Dayshuan Wright...all these guys were big time prospects coming in, and unless Boheim really misjudged a whole lot of people, they can play. They'll get their chance this year, and I bet that Roberts ends up an all BE player.
WVU is SOOOOO overrated right now. Not as overrated as Louisville (2 returning starters? Big deal!), but overrated. This is still a team that went 8-8 in the BE. They lose 2 of their best players in Sally and Fisher, basically leaving them with nothing on the boards. If anyone here thinks Gansey, Beilein Jr., and Herber are going to hit EVERY freakin' three this year, raise your hands. I didn't think so...
Order of finish:
Uconn Nova Cuse Georgetown Cinci Lousiville WVU SJU Providence (they always surprise, good or bad) Rutgers (decent talent) And everyone else.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 8, 2005 12:09:29 GMT -5
I'll take Marquette over Rutgers.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 8, 2005 12:42:45 GMT -5
I agree, I'd like nothing more than the bball-only's reclaim the throne. Point of order: there are no "basketball only" schools in the Big East. Georgetown plays all sports except for football (PL), field hockey (independent), sailing, and men's rowing in the Big East.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jul 8, 2005 12:48:20 GMT -5
We were where the Hall was a few seasons ago. Maybe even lower. We lost our Barrett in Sweetney (and we weren't even making the tourney!) and then had an awful year. I do not know if Orr is a good, mediocre or bad coach. I think it is clear that he is not a great coach right now. He certainly is not a good enough recruiter to recruit successfully at the Hall. And he's having the same team turmoil problems that Esherick had. In the end, coaches at this level are held to a different standard. It isn't about being fair, at least not in the sense of a fair shake where most of us work. These coaches know they need to be better than mediocre. And Seton Hall will likely fire Orr, fair or not. If they hire the right person next, they will rise quickly. People were quick to call Georgetown and St. John's permanently dead. Simply not true. You and I have very different perspectives on this, SF. I believe that a coach taking over a program that 1) has had turmoil recently and 2) lacks the type of infrastructure as many of its peers/ conference opponents has an uphill battle and deserves patience and time. If the coach is a quality person who has the capacity to succeed in the long run, I feel that the best move is to give him room to grow. To me, that means a good 6-8 if not 8-10 years. To hire a coach and expect him to permanently turn things around in a few seasons is unfair, classless, and improper when your employer is an institution of higher learning. Basically, many coaches are expected to hit home runs on their first couple of recruiting classes, or they are in deep water. Moreover, many coaches are not afforded the benefit of an administration that understands that there may be bumps in the road. Regime change is complex and rarely easy. This may mean short-term (2-4 years) regression for the good of long-term success. The lack of a reasonable attitude on this matter leads many coaches to cheat in recruiting. For ADs and university presidents to expect a coach to nail a great recruiting class in his second or third year is silly. Yes, it can be done, but it is prohibitively diffucult and leads many coaches to cross the line. Recruiting cycles take years of hard work. I sincerely feel that a coach is not on even ground with his peers in terms of recruiting until he has been at a school for at least 4-5 years. These days, prospects are often identified and contacted beginning in their freshman years or earlier. Moreover, relationships (i.e. w/ AAU & HS coaches, etc) take time to build. To axe a coach b/c he has struggled to bring in premier talent before that time frame is silly. Even IF you manage to grab a bunch of recruits quickly, attaining success is not that simple. You may sign a real talent who gets on campus and turns out to be a head case (i.e. HT-- but hopefully not every head coach has assistants who hide negative material about top recruits for them-- bit I digress). Or what if you assemble a nice team, but one or two injuries does it in? Is that something to fire a coach over? I say no. The challenges of taking on a new coaching position are immense and I don't have time to cover even a decent portion of it. I will say, however, that a few mediocre years to begin with does not necessarily do a coach in. Consider Herb Sendek, Mike Montgomery, Phil Martelli, even RDF's fav, Dan Monson, as a few examples. So if, for instance, the Hoyas squeak in as a bubble team this year and then end up in the NIT next year, I would argue that it's WAY too early for anyone to jump down JT III's throat. Consider the complexity of the position and the time required to build the requisite foundations for success.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 8, 2005 13:05:35 GMT -5
I can see your point, Hoyalove.
I do agree that sometimes you can fire too quickly -- that you can get rid of a good coach too quickly. That the coach may be headed to success or develop in the future.
The key, I think, is whether you have any confidence that that development is happening. Is the coach learning from mistakes? Improving? Even acknowledgement of a weakness would be a plus, I think.
Where Orr is in trouble is simple. He has yet to prove he can recruit at all. He got Cerasoli, but ran him off campus immediately. Other than that, all of his talent was Amaker's. It ouwld be one thing if Orr had a plan to counter this, but he's failed to shake up his staff to find a star recruiter and he's accepted random transfers from family friends, etc.
Is he a good game coach? Two NCAA tourneys -- better than someone like Waters. I'm not going to say he's a bad coach. Is he a great coach? Not yet.
The question then becomes how much time to give him.
I don't follow the Hall well enough to know if he is a good game coach or seems like he is improving on the trail. This will be his fifth year -- with 2 NCAA appearances based off the Barrett/Toney-El class. But if the team shows no sign of playing above its talent -- or if his generally no-name recruits show no talent above their rankings, how long do you wait?
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YB
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Post by YB on Jul 8, 2005 13:37:20 GMT -5
mcnpa, I agree with you. I have SJU as my sleeper team for the BE next year, partially bc when GU does well it won't surprise me. I think SJU could go 8-8 NIT, and really spoil some teams in the process. We get you twice, so I hope we finally beat the home and home bugaboo with you, but I think you'll do well next year and I think GU should be contenders after losing NO ONE and gaining some depth.
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Post by mcnpa on Jul 8, 2005 13:58:14 GMT -5
SJU still looks like a two man team for next year though, unless one of the frosh really steps up. And honestly, it's almost a one man team, because as Showtime goes, so go the Redmen. Like at MCI, Hill turned it over 10 times or so, and everytime they tried to make a run, he would mess up. And, of course, in MSG, he torched us. Hamilton is a nice player, but it strikes me that his shots are really dependent on Showtime penetrating and making good decisions. I've heard from some folks in NYC that Ricky Torres didn't have the year expected of him - you guys counting on him to produce next season? Mason is supposed to be good, but he really needs to transfer to Georgetown to continue building a replica of the early 1990's Knicks on the Hoya roster. If Uconn has their guards, they're awesome. If they don't they're just good, but the point guard spot will kill them all year. I think Cuse will be better than we think. Roberts, Watkins, McCroskey, Josh Wright, Dayshuan Wright...all these guys were big time prospects coming in, and unless Boheim really misjudged a whole lot of people, they can play. They'll get their chance this year, and I bet that Roberts ends up an all BE player. WVU is SOOOOO overrated right now. Not as overrated as Louisville (2 returning starters? Big deal!), but overrated. This is still a team that went 8-8 in the BE. They lose 2 of their best players in Sally and Fisher, basically leaving them with nothing on the boards. If anyone here thinks Gansey, Beilein Jr., and Herber are going to hit EVERY freakin' three this year, raise your hands. I didn't think so... Order of finish: Uconn Nova Cuse Georgetown Cinci Lousiville WVU SJU Providence (they always surprise, good or bad) Rutgers (decent talent) And everyone else. A few points about SJU. You say that it looks like a two man team, but I don't see it that way. First off, our starting center will be Aaron Spears. Spears is not a frehsman, he's a JC transfer, and played at Illinois his freshman year. Spears is a big 6-9 260 and will start at center. It will take alot of pressure off Lamont. Spears brings experience, and he ran the same offensive system at Illinois. He's supposed to be a rebounding machine. Our starting 2Guard will likely be Jermaine Maybank who was supposed to be the starting 2G last season, but hurt his knee in the pre-season dunk contest. He's 6-4 with a good handle, and is very athletic. Ricky Torres should provide some good shooting coming off the bench. Maybank can shoot as well. At SF, even though he is a frosh, Anthony Mason Jr is 6-7, a gazelle and a first-team All Tennessee player. I don't see this being a 2-man SJU team. The reason that everything went through Darryl last year, is because he had nobody to pass the ball to. Our shooting guard was Eugene Lawrence who is really going to be our backup PG this season, and our small forward was 6-1 Cedric Jackson. Neither of those guys were shooters. We only had Lamont in the middle and we had a walkon backing him up. The addition of 3 new starters, two of whom who are talented JC guys who know the system makes for a VERY different team. SJU should have alot more shooting ability, height as well as post play from Spears. SJU also brings in a 6-11 240lb Lithuanian who is currently on the Under 20 Lithuanian team. SJU was a gritty team last season, but lacked talent and had players playing off-position. Next year the infusion of ALOT more talent should bode well. Lamont shoould have benn an All Big East player, and it was a travesty that he was not. He ate up Taft, Torin Francis, Shelden Williams and most of the big guys he went up against. Now he moves to his more natural PF position.
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Post by mcnpa on Jul 8, 2005 14:00:25 GMT -5
I agree, I'd like nothing more than the bball-only's reclaim the throne. Point of order: there are no "basketball only" schools in the Big East. Georgetown plays all sports except for football (PL), field hockey (independent), sailing, and men's rowing in the Big East. Apologies for calling them bball only. I think you got my point. SJU too plays alot of sports well, just not football....
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