mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Aug 14, 2019 16:25:17 GMT -5
Blair's a bench player. Even if he was a top 5 talent on the team, his role is to get on a rhythm and hit a few shots to jump-start the offense. Like a Lou Williams type, he's there to jump-start the offense and get his shots up. I don't think a team with as much depth as this one has needs a set starting lineup every game. Yurtseven and Akinjo should be locks, but the rest could be dependent on the opponent. If you need more shooting to start you could start a guy like Blair, I just don't think his skill set is a consistent starter.
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Post by professorhoya on Aug 14, 2019 16:31:40 GMT -5
I like Mac a lot. I just thought it would lead to some good discussion. Again, this was a discussion I was having with a 1000 point scorer under JT3 that brought this to me. I thought it was interesting enough to post and get thoughts on. I was not coming from a bad place....but if it makes you feel better, name call on you want. I think discussions like this are interesting. Sure, realistically McClung is likely going to start (along with Akinjo), but I think it's worth pushing boundaries and exploring ideas, even if they are unlikely to come to fruition. I am in the camp of starting both of them, but there were times last year where I do think that their dual presence in the lineup caused things to stagnate at times. Clearly, the better outcome is to avoid the stagnation we saw through coaching them up, more sharing of the ball, etc., but nonetheless I think the idea behind blueandgray's post was worthy of discussion. Assuming Allen is the lock-down defender he was at UCF, I do think Ewing will face situations where he is going to probably have to go with Akinjo or McClung, and not both, along with Allen (though I do think we could certainly see all three simultaneously). I have to assume that Akinjo/McClung will improve defensively this coming season, so maybe the difference won't be as significant, but neither of them were very good defenders last season. Last year Coach Ewing pulled MacLung alot in the 2nd half and when Mac was having an off night or not following directions. He tried to do the same with Akinjo but the back up point for Akinjo was so bad that there wasn't much choice (other than an occasional hot game from Jagan) but to not pull Akinjo (or bring him back into the game quickly). This year, I think Akinjo will be pulled more if ineffective or not following directions because we have another good real point guard in Allen. Allen give us that option whether it's injury, foul trouble or ineffectiveness. I think this year no player is safe from getting pulled because we have 2-3 guys behind them who are just as hungry and can play. And that's what you need to bring it to the next level. *** I also think Mac needs reps at PG because for him to have any shot at the next level he is going to have to play point/combo guard in the Westbrook, Steve Francis, Dennis Smith mode. I think that's why Mac was teamed with LeBlanc at Kenner and those two had a really good 2 man game going. Mac ran the show except that one game where they were overmatched overall and he had to sit and the little guy came in to play point. Down the road I see Mac taking over the point guard reigns from Akinjo because I think Akinjo is that good, and good enough to make the next level in some pro league around the world and will be gone sooner than later (after hopefully leading us to the Final Four)
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hoyaduck
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Post by hoyaduck on Aug 14, 2019 17:17:22 GMT -5
Consider me in the camp just appreciating the discussion here.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 14, 2019 18:01:21 GMT -5
Thought I'd change the title of the thread in hope that we can focus on the discussion.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Aug 14, 2019 18:11:44 GMT -5
Thought I'd change the title of the thread in hope that we can focus on the discussion. I am not seeing red flags on the chemistry side from where I sit at a distance. It will be interesting to see how PE distributes playing time and for what reasons and whether that changes anything. There will be some very good players who will be sitting this year.
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rlo24
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Post by rlo24 on Aug 14, 2019 18:51:37 GMT -5
Clearly, coach was convinced by this post and changed the starting lineup tonight;)
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Aug 14, 2019 19:00:08 GMT -5
What was the starting lineup?
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 14, 2019 19:55:18 GMT -5
What was the starting lineup? Ewing basically started the 2nd team.
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Aug 14, 2019 20:16:11 GMT -5
Cool!
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Aug 15, 2019 5:37:22 GMT -5
James and Mac are starting no doubt. If teams make the mistake of trying to run with us Mac is the best option on the offensive side to have out there. Now if the BE in a tough down to the wire halfcourt game I think what will likely be the best lineup is Allen, James, Jamorko, Josh and Yurt7. That gives us maybe our best defensive AND offensive half court offense. Allen and James could both be used at the point to keep the other team off balance. With Allen running the point he could create open 3’s forJames who seems to be by far our best shooter. Allen is also much less likely to take a boneheaded shot. He plays under control. I am not sure how other teams defend the spacing problems that team could cause.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Aug 15, 2019 6:09:58 GMT -5
That implies an open mind and good faith argument - neither of which are applicable to The Blue and Gray Board or certain people's viewpoints towards Mac McClung. I like Mac a lot. I just thought it would lead to some good discussion. Again, this was a discussion I was having with a 1000 point scorer under JT3 that brought this to me. I thought it was interesting enough to post and get thoughts on. I was not coming from a bad place....but if it makes you feel better, name call on you want. At the end of the day, I have full faith in Ewing and like how he pulls the strings. There were times where he sat Akinjo at the end of games and times he sat Mac when either guy was negatively impacting chemistry. I have no doubt that this will happen again at several points this year....so Ewing will handle it his own way and the problem will take care of itself. I thought the original question was valid and thought provoking and enjoyed most of the responses. I think overwhelming feedback shows that the fan base thinks Mac should start and it’s not really a debate. Will be interesting to see how Ewing handles the influx of talent and builds the new guys into the rotation.
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zxhoya
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Post by zxhoya on Aug 15, 2019 8:08:01 GMT -5
James and Mac are starting no doubt. If teams make the mistake of trying to run with us Mac is the best option on the offensive side to have out there. Now if the BE in a tough down to the wire halfcourt game I think what will likely be the best lineup is Allen, James, Jamorko, Josh and Yurt7. That gives us maybe our best defensive AND offensive half court offense. Allen and James could both be used at the point to keep the other team off balance. With Allen running the point he could create open 3’s forJames who seems to be by far our best shooter. Allen is also much less likely to take a boneheaded shot. He plays under control. I am not sure how other teams defend the spacing problems that team could cause. Allen is definitely the better defensive option but that's the only thing I agree with you on. Whether half court or a fast paced game Mac is the better choice, in my opinion. Mac's ball handling has improved and either (Mackinjo) could run the offense as shown in this tournament and Mac is the teams best offensive player (arguably). I don't see how you could believe that this team is better offensively with Mac on the bench and as far as bone headed shots I really don't agree. It's a moot point because Allen will have a significant role on this team and definitely will be a positive asset, and I believe in many games he'll be on the court at the end of games. Mac is the present and future, Allen is the present and we are lucky to have both.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Aug 15, 2019 9:34:53 GMT -5
That implies an open mind and good faith argument - neither of which are applicable to The Blue and Gray Board or certain people's viewpoints towards Mac McClung. I like Mac a lot. I just thought it would lead to some good discussion. Again, this was a discussion I was having with a 1000 point scorer under JT3 that brought this to me. I thought it was interesting enough to post and get thoughts on. I was not coming from a bad place....but if it makes you feel better, name call on you want. The basketball people I talk to aren’t nearly as enamored with Mac like fans are. That’s because they take into account things like spacing, shot selection, and defense. Things that really can’t be measured by a box score. On the other hand Mac’s one elite skill also happens to be the one that fans love. Fans are often convinced the better athlete is the better player. It’s like in the NFL where fans love the QBs like Johnny Football and Tebow that run as soon as the pocket breaks down which makes for an exciting play. Whereas the coaches would rather have a guy that steps up and finds the open guy for the boring 8 yard gain. Can you imagine trying to convince Redskins fans back in the day that Cousins was better than RG3. If you even question the fan favorite you will be called some version of a bad or dumb fan which I am guessing you knew when you posted.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Aug 15, 2019 9:46:44 GMT -5
*Logs on HoyaTalk *Reads thread *Logs off HoyaTalk
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Aug 15, 2019 10:24:42 GMT -5
I like Mac a lot. I just thought it would lead to some good discussion. Again, this was a discussion I was having with a 1000 point scorer under JT3 that brought this to me. I thought it was interesting enough to post and get thoughts on. I was not coming from a bad place....but if it makes you feel better, name call on you want. The basketball people I talk to aren’t nearly as enamored with Mac like fans are. That’s because they take into account things like spacing, shot selection, and defense. Things that really can’t be measured by a box score. On the other hand Mac’s one elite skill also happens to be the one that fans love. Fans are often convinced the better athlete is the better player. It’s like in the NFL where fans love the QBs like Johnny Football and Tebow that run as soon as the pocket breaks down which makes for an exciting play. Whereas the coaches would rather have a guy that steps up and finds the open guy for the boring 8 yard gain. Can you imagine trying to convince Redskins fans back in the day that Cousins was better than RG3. If you even question the fan favorite you will be called some version of a bad or dumb fan which I am guessing you knew when you posted. On the other hand, the recruiting experts and basketball people ranked Mac in the 300s as a recruit and then he starts at a high major program as a freshman, averages over 13 points a game and makes the conference all-freshman team....Mac can certainly improve shot selection and defense, but anyone who doesn’t acknowledge that he is gifted offensively is looking for faults.
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Post by bigelephant on Aug 15, 2019 10:31:00 GMT -5
The basketball people I talk to aren’t nearly as enamored with Mac like fans are. That’s because they take into account things like spacing, shot selection, and defense. Things that really can’t be measured by a box score. On the other hand Mac’s one elite skill also happens to be the one that fans love. Fans are often convinced the better athlete is the better player. It’s like in the NFL where fans love the QBs like Johnny Football and Tebow that run as soon as the pocket breaks down which makes for an exciting play. Whereas the coaches would rather have a guy that steps up and finds the open guy for the boring 8 yard gain. Can you imagine trying to convince Redskins fans back in the day that Cousins was better than RG3. If you even question the fan favorite you will be called some version of a bad or dumb fan which I am guessing you knew when you posted. On the other hand, the recruiting experts and basketball people ranked Mac in the 300s as a recruit and then he starts at a high major program as a freshman, averages over 13 points a game and makes the conference all-freshman team....Mac can certainly improve shot selection and defense, but anyone who doesn’t acknowledge that he is gifted offensively is looking for faults. Amen. BTW he was actually 234 or 236.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 15, 2019 10:36:52 GMT -5
I like Mac a lot. I just thought it would lead to some good discussion. Again, this was a discussion I was having with a 1000 point scorer under JT3 that brought this to me. I thought it was interesting enough to post and get thoughts on. I was not coming from a bad place....but if it makes you feel better, name call on you want. The basketball people I talk to aren’t nearly as enamored with Mac like fans are. That’s because they take into account things like spacing, shot selection, and defense. Things that really can’t be measured by a box score. On the other hand Mac’s one elite skill also happens to be the one that fans love. Fans are often convinced the better athlete is the better player. It’s like in the NFL where fans love the QBs like Johnny Football and Tebow that run as soon as the pocket breaks down which makes for an exciting play. Whereas the coaches would rather have a guy that steps up and finds the open guy for the boring 8 yard gain. Can you imagine trying to convince Redskins fans back in the day that Cousins was better than RG3. If you even question the fan favorite you will be called some version of a bad or dumb fan which I am guessing you knew when you posted. Hate to think of what all of those smart “basketball people “ would have thought of Iverson.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 15, 2019 11:20:50 GMT -5
Mac's 3 pt shooting.
We keep hearing and reading about Mac's 27% shooting as evidence that he: 1. "Can't shoot" and/or 2. Is a "chucker".
First, on this current Hoya team Mac is the 2G. Most teams want their 2G shooting ... a lot. And scoring a lot, which he did. Second, while Mac's overall shooting % was 39.2%, Akinjo's was 36.5% Both guards shot FTs at about an 80% rate... and were pretty good at getting to the line, also important.
Let's focus on whether Mac can shoot the Three ball. It is true that on the season, he shot only 27% -- def not good generally, especially for a 2G. But having seen multiple games where he shot 2/3, 4/6, 4/8, 4/9 and 4/10, we know he can do it. So what happened?
I certainly do not have the answers, but there are some interesting stats and trends. For example, he started his college career on an 0/14 run, and ended on an 0/6 run. In between he shot 32% OR take Mac's first 11 BE games (he missed the team's first two with that ankle injury). He started his BE career shooting treys @ 20/58 for 34%, scoring 14.8 ppg. For a freshman 2G that's not bad at all. Over the last 5 BE games, his 3PT shooting dropped down to 6/23, 26%, and his scoring dropped to 13.0 ppg In the BET and NIT he went 0/6 from three and scored 9.5 ppg WHY? Did he get tired? Run down? (he played 27.4 mpg from the start of the BE season thru the NIT) Too much pressure on him to score? Defenses focusing on him more? That ankle injury never fully healed.. maybe it kept bothering him more and more?
Meanwhike, Akinjo shot 39% from Three, and only 36% overall. Why? Because he stubbornly kept driving into the teeth of the D and got hammered trying to get to the rim. Later in the season, he incorporated a lot more pull up floaters and a few more kick outs, and he was far more successful.
My overall point is this. We have one heckuva talented sophomore backcourt - both kids were ALL BE rookies and Akinjo was BE ROY. Not only were they the starting backcourt as freshman, Jesse was the only other scorer in double figures. Lots of demands and pressure on both. Their (expected) frosh to soph improvement is one of the keys to the upcoming season. In addition to being one year older and more experienced, they will also have a much stronger supporting cast and some serious depth so they won't have to carry so much of the load so often. Giving a kid several breaks during a game takes some pressure off, lets them see what's going on, listen to their coaches, in short - be more effective during the time they are on the court, even if their minutes might dip a bit.
Am I cherry picking stats to build a case for Mac? I guess one might take that view. My personal POV is Mackinjo will take a major step up and be significantly improved this season. I am not even thinking about changing our starting backcourt lineup. As mentioned in an earlier post, Mac, James and Josh are the heart and soul of this team. It is their team. They are the leaders. They drive the energy. And all three were ALL BE rookies. OF course Mac & James need to play much better D. No question about that. My guess is they will at least be improved, and we have Allen and Mosely (and maybe Gardner?) to help shut down opposing guards.
Pat has a much more complete team this season. Let's enjoying watching what he does with it.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 15, 2019 11:34:43 GMT -5
Mac's 3 pt shooting. We keep hearing and reading about Mac's 27% shooting as evidence that he: 1. "Can't shoot" and/or 2. Is a "chucker". First, on this current Hoya team Mac is the 2G. Most teams want their 2G shooting ... a lot. And scoring a lot, which he did. Second, while Mac's overall shooting % was 39.2%, Akinjo's was 36.5%Both guards shot FTs at about an 80% rate... and were pretty good at getting to the line, also important. There is actually a strong case that McClung was actually the better shooter overall. eFG% (effective FG%) is a stat that accounts for the fact that 3 point shots are worth more than a 2, so it's a way of comparing guys' shooting, even if some take mostly twos or threes, or a combination. Overall, McClung and Akinjo were actually quite similar: McClung's eFG was 45.2% and Akinjo was 43.9%. In conference play, McClung was actually a good bit better. McClung's conference eFG was 48%, whereas Akinjo was only 38.7% - largely because he was so bad on twos. So, in Big East play, there's actually a very strong case - purely from a shooting perspective - that McClung was the better shooter. Again, Akinjo was the better three point shooter, and McClung was the better two point shooter. This actually points to "easy" ways in which they can both get a lot better: Akinjo: He either needs to finish better at the rim, or alternatively, simply take fewer two's and focus more on three's, where he shoots better. Given another year of growth and experience, I am hoping he will finish better at the rim this season against good opponents. If not, he just needs to take fewer twos. McClung: McClung needs to improve his three point shot, and take slightly better twos. That alone would cause his value to skyrocket (plus becoming a plus defender).
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Aug 15, 2019 11:35:56 GMT -5
The basketball people I talk to aren’t nearly as enamored with Mac like fans are. That’s because they take into account things like spacing, shot selection, and defense. Things that really can’t be measured by a box score. On the other hand Mac’s one elite skill also happens to be the one that fans love. Fans are often convinced the better athlete is the better player. It’s like in the NFL where fans love the QBs like Johnny Football and Tebow that run as soon as the pocket breaks down which makes for an exciting play. Whereas the coaches would rather have a guy that steps up and finds the open guy for the boring 8 yard gain. Can you imagine trying to convince Redskins fans back in the day that Cousins was better than RG3. If you even question the fan favorite you will be called some version of a bad or dumb fan which I am guessing you knew when you posted. Hate to think of what all of those smart “basketball people “ would have thought of Iverson. I implore everyone who feels the need to put basketball people to go to the FB group and see what some of your favorite old Hoyas post during game threads. That is when the true emotions come out. As for Iverson he is by far my favorite basketball player ever. That being said he was terribly inefficient on offense his Freshman year and that team suffered because of it. I think most could agree that team underachieved for the talent it had. The difference is Iverson was still an elite level defender which Mac is not. If I would've been posting here I would've said he needed to be better on offense for the team to be better. His Sophomore year he became much more efficient and the team was better although it still pains me to think about the BE final.
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