HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
Posts: 1,329
|
Post by HOYAPLAYA on Aug 13, 2019 21:42:30 GMT -5
Ok. You may think it's a bad idea but let's not get ridiculous with suggesting a freshman PG that led the Big East in assists doesn't look to distribute the ball very well. Mac is likely going to score around 16 ppg and do it in something around 26 to 28 mpg. This team is going to score more than last year's team and I think the depth across the board is going to have this team running even more. I don't think it is taking a shot at Mac by saying he isn't a PG and won't likely ever be one as that isn't his mentality. He is a big time scorer and can get his shots regardless of who he is playing with which is truly what makes him so valuable to this team. I think we will find that Gardner will use his size to be very similar over his career. The overall basketball talent on this team just keeps getting better while at the same time getting more athletic which I believe is going to surprise a lot of folks out there come conference game time. HOYAPLAYA, what you are not getting is that despite his leading the BE in assists, Akinjo doesn't necessarily qualify as a real PG either because he dominates the ball and takes ill advised shots himself. In fact if I can recall Mac wasn't sat down by Ewing for blowing off coaches and teammates and jacking up shots last season at the end of games; James was. Some people on this site were so mad at Akinjo because they felt his actions cost the team a win or two. But I wasn't mad, I was just a tad disappointed. I recognized that Ewing and the fans would just have to live with those mistake as Akinjo went through his growing pains. By no means did I think Akinjo was the perfect PG but he was the PG I would take over anyone else. So much so that I wasn't that thrilled over the recruiting of Anthony because I didn't want him getting in the way of Akinjo. As for your remarks about Mac not being a PG, I have to question if you realize what era you're living in. True PGs are almost as irrelevant/extinct as big men who only play in the paint. In the NBA especially it has become more about guards at the one who are scoring threats either through long distance shooting or by being able to get to the hoop and finish. And if you can do both you are truly the elite of the elite. You know where the creating for teammates come into play for these types of guards? It comes by being so good at ballhandling and being so much of a threat to score that when defenses are drawn to you you are able to spot an open teammate or kick out the ball to one off the drive. This is why guys like Curry, Westbrook, Wade and others, who were never considered point guards in college and didn't even play that position in college, ended up being at the #1 spot fulltime or during crunch time for their respective NBA teams. That's the new era we live in, as one WPost article puts it, an era that came about 20 years too late for Allen Iverson. An era in which Kyrie Irving is considered one of the best at the PG spot not because he sets up teammates but because he is skilled enough to put the ball on a string and get buckets. I'm not saying McClung is at the level, I'm saying there is a template for him to follow that would allow him to remain aggressive at the one spot if he continues to refine and improve his skills. I know what era we are in and I just don't see Mac being on the le el thise guys were in college. Btw, Curry doesn't play much different a role in the NBA than he played in his final season at Davidson. He was always a good shooter and good distributor and played more of a facilitator role his last year in college than he did his first couple years when he was more scorer with distributor capabilities. Westbrook was playing alongside Collison and Wade was a man amongst boys from the minute he stepped on college campus. Could it happen with Mac? Of course. Do I believe that he has the ceiling anywhere near the players you listed? Nope and I'm a big fan of his.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Aug 13, 2019 21:59:30 GMT -5
I know this may sound crazy.....but I had a long conversation with a former Hoya player today and discussed the merits of having Mac come off the bench. The more we spoke, the more it made sense .... stick with me for a second. We know that both Mac and Akinjo are ball dominant players, but at this juncture Akinjo is more of a true point guard and does a much better job at creating opportunities for others. Mac at this point is really mostly a scorer and will try to score every opportunity he has. The problem here is that when beginning a game and the team is trying to get into a flow, its hard to do so when nearly every time Mac touches the ball he is putting it up. While there are points in a game where you certainly want that and need that....getting everyone involved early on in a game imho is more important than getting Mac the ball so he can score. In a perfect world, I'd like for Mac to get his 28 to 32 minutes a game and he should be in to finish games as possessions become more important and he can score and get to the line....but should do so by coming off the bench. We may be better suited with a starting line up of.... Akinjo Blair Pickett Leblanc Yurt with Mac, Mosely, Alexander, Wahab, Allen and Gardner off the bench. A very solid and well balanced starting 5 with easily the best bench in the conference. Just curious to get some thoughts. Don't like the line up. Blair has not shown any consistency. He's a volume gunner at this point who doesn't have high percentages. And can't attack the basket like Mac/Gardner/Alexander. Pickett is still unproven in terms of being a consistent scorer. And LeBlanc doesn't have an outside game. If you are not starting Mac then the line up has to be Akinjo Gardner Alexander LeBlanc Yurt
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Aug 13, 2019 22:15:52 GMT -5
Also if you bench him to start the game that is going to give Mac less minutes overall. You're going to want about 30 minutes from Mac. That's very hard to do when he sits out the first 8 minutes in a 40 minute game.
I actually don't think Blair is going to get many minutes this year. Maybe 5 minutes a game if he's lucky. He's behind Akinjo/Allen/Mac/Mosley at point and behind Mac/Gardner/Allen/Alexander/Mosley at the two guard. Assuming Akinjo and Mac each get 30 minutes and Allen 20 minutes that would leave zero minutes for anyone else at the guard spots. I think you want those 3 playing as much as possible at the two guard spots.
The only scenario (barring injury) I see Blair or Mosley get minutes is if we have alot of 20-30 point blow outs.
|
|
|
Post by ewingitrust on Aug 13, 2019 22:37:46 GMT -5
You want to replace Mac with Blair? Lol....the only bigger chucker on the team? I think Mac is poised for 16+ ppg this year. I think your criticism is valid, but it is a good problem to have.....a confident scorer who can taste his next bucket. If you really wanted a PG who created opportunities for others, after last night I am wondering if Allen is that guy instead of Akinjo. Akinjo is a great player, but he is a ball dominant, scoring PG. I think Allen is likely the creator for others PG. Allen was really impressive last night from a defensive and distribution perspective. And he shot well on limited shots. I think we keep Akinjo and Mac starting with Allen the first guard off the bench. Blair can be the guy when we need an offensive spark from deep. Post of the year. Bingo.
|
|
|
Post by bigelephant on Aug 14, 2019 3:54:41 GMT -5
Not gonna happen - why waste your breath so to speak.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 14, 2019 9:54:41 GMT -5
HOYAPLAYA, what you are not getting is that despite his leading the BE in assists, Akinjo doesn't necessarily qualify as a real PG either because he dominates the ball and takes ill advised shots himself. In fact if I can recall Mac wasn't sat down by Ewing for blowing off coaches and teammates and jacking up shots last season at the end of games; James was. Some people on this site were so mad at Akinjo because they felt his actions cost the team a win or two. But I wasn't mad, I was just a tad disappointed. I recognized that Ewing and the fans would just have to live with those mistake as Akinjo went through his growing pains. By no means did I think Akinjo was the perfect PG but he was the PG I would take over anyone else. So much so that I wasn't that thrilled over the recruiting of Anthony because I didn't want him getting in the way of Akinjo. I agree with this. For whatever reason, McClung has always seemed to get a lot of criticism for being a chucker/taking too many ill advised shots, whereas Akinjo for the most part has gotten by without that criticism, except the instance mentioned above where he blew off Ewing's directions and we lost. Akinjo took a LOT of shots last year, many of which were ill advised. Keep in mind that Akinjo shot 29-118 from two in Big East play, 24.6%, compared to McClung's 47.8%. When you're shooting below 25% and you take over 100 shots, that's sort of the definition of chucking it up, isn't it? Clearly, Akinjo brings other point guard skills to the table, and he did shoot threes well in Big East play, but if the main reason for sitting McClung to begin the game is because he takes so many shots, a similar argument could be made about Akinjo, too.
|
|
SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,620
|
Post by SirSaxa on Aug 14, 2019 10:16:05 GMT -5
Rather than sitting McClung, how about coaching the team to share the ball better and get everyone involved?
Another point, the team came out flat so often last year, but Mac was always charging ahead, putting the other team's D on their heels, right from the get go. OK, not just in the "come out flat" games. He provided an energy and a "punch 'em in the mouth" attitude to get things rolling, almost every game. He and Akinjo were in a virtual tie for second on the team in scoring (13+ ppg) behind Jesse. So going into this season, do we really want to hold our #1-A scorer out of the starting lineup?
Last year on the season, Akinjo shot: 36.5% and for FT -- 81.2% Mac shot: 39.2% and for FT -- 79.8%
Our three ALL BE frosh are the core of the team. They ALL need to start.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,442
|
Post by TC on Aug 14, 2019 10:23:58 GMT -5
Absurd threads like this make me hate the board even more than I do when I read Blue and Gray section.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,260
Member is Online
|
Post by prhoya on Aug 14, 2019 10:26:23 GMT -5
Rather than sitting McClung, how about coaching the team to share the ball better and get everyone involved? Pat mentioned this in one of this off-season's interviews (don't remember which one). It will be emphasized. With our roster/depth, it can be implemented without losing a beat.
|
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,997
|
Post by jwp91 on Aug 14, 2019 10:55:30 GMT -5
Absurd threads like this make me hate the board even more than I do when I read Blue and Gray section. While I don’t agree with the original premise, you get better ideas when you stop to challenge the prevailing wisdom to either confirm your thinking or revise your approach.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,442
|
Post by TC on Aug 14, 2019 11:00:30 GMT -5
Absurd threads like this make me hate the board even more than I do when I read Blue and Gray section. While I don’t agree with the original premise, you get better ideas when you stop to challenge the prevailing wisdom to either confirm your thinking or revise your approach. That implies an open mind and good faith argument - neither of which are applicable to The Blue and Gray Board or certain people's viewpoints towards Mac McClung.
|
|
seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,657
Member is Online
|
Post by seaweed on Aug 14, 2019 11:05:58 GMT -5
58 assists for Mac (2.0 per) and 173 for James (5.3per, led team and BEast) - in their first season of college ball while also finishing 16 & 17 in the league in scoring. Are we seriously going to have a conversation about how selfish they are? I mean, I am all for high standards but dang, how about we let them play! For what it’s worth, MAC dropped what would have been a gorgeous dime on Yurt7 the other day, everything but the basket. I think they both increase points and assist numbers this year, but if one gets more assisteses than the other, that’s not a crime
|
|
SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,620
|
Post by SirSaxa on Aug 14, 2019 11:27:42 GMT -5
Absurd threads like this make me hate the board even more than I do when I read Blue and Gray section. Here's a suggestion TC. Stop reading the B&G board. Worked for me
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,493
|
Post by DanMcQ on Aug 14, 2019 11:27:44 GMT -5
I fall in the camp that McClung should start, but I have to say it sure is nice to have a BASKETBALL discussion here rather than, say, a discussion about whether one should have actually seen most of the summer league games to come up with grades on performance in said games.
|
|
smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,296
|
Post by smokeyjack on Aug 14, 2019 11:37:20 GMT -5
58 assists for Mac (2.0 per) and 173 for James (5.3per, led team and BEast) - in their first season of college ball while also finishing 16 & 17 in the league in scoring. Are we seriously going to have a conversation about how selfish they are? I mean, I am all for high standards but dang, how about we let them play! For what it’s worth, MAC dropped what would have been a gorgeous dime on Yurt7 the other day, everything but the basket. I think they both increase points and assist numbers this year, but if one gets more assisteses than the other, that’s not a crime Correct. Completely absurd IMO given that the two most important skillsets re to winning bball for guards (analytically speaking) are scoring and getting to the line. Blair can't get to the rim and Allen's rather large sample at UCF indicates he can't score, shoot or get to the rim but is an excellent defender and good (though certainly not great - 4.3 apg in a pretty weak league) facilitator. Both James and Mac can and will improve re: decision making, but why are we questioning two guys who had remarkable freshman seasons with fewer growing pains and inconsistency than most if not all of their older classmates? I'm not against intelligent speculation, but it's a mortal lock that Akinjo, Mac, Josh and Yurt start. I personally though Galen would beat out Morko for the 5th spot, but Pickett clearly got the benefit of the doubt as a returning starter against BA. And he played quite well...and even great at times.
|
|
|
Post by gatormcclusky on Aug 14, 2019 12:38:26 GMT -5
Hell no. No offense but why is this even still a discussion? Are we so bored with the Who Should Kick Jamorko Out of the Starting Five debate that we have gone back to this for the time being? I think its a ridiculous suggestion. I recall at this time last year people brushing off the idea of McClung in the starting lineup over Blair. And all McClung did was end up on the Big East All Rookie Team, hit some clutch shots and helped the Hoyas finish tied for third in the BE. But this team is supposed to be better with him coming off the bench? Get out of here. First of all it is insulting and misleading to suggest that McClung is just some gunslinger jacking up shots. That's not the case despite how many times people try to press this theory. Yes, he is aggressive. That's part of his game at this point, part of which makes him special. But he's not putting up attempts like some second coming of Iverson. No doubt he takes bad shots but who on this team didn't last season? Did you see yesterday's game? McClung put up 8 shot attempts in 15 and 1/2 minutes. Akinjo, the guy who has the unofficial title of lead point guard for the team, put up 10 shots in under 18 minutes and yet no one ever charges him with being a chucker. Not on this board. The James Can Do No Wrong Crowd is no better than the Mac Can Do No Wrong Cult. Meanwhile for guys like me with no dog in the fight other than wanting what's best for the team and what's best for both players long term, I have to shake my head and wonder what's wrong with both groups. Both come off as a collection of fanboys. Without question at this moment Akinjo has the better handle and the better vision. The latter he'll probably always be better at. But McClung can create too, he's just has to much flair for his own good at times. But he is an asset with the ball in his hands and isn't selfish to the point that he only looks for his own shot opportunities. And by the way Akinjo dominates the ball far more than McClung, barely allowing him to bring up the ball past halfcourt. McClung gives our starting backcourt another guard with essentially point-guard level handle, and from all I've read he has continued to improve that handle. That's an asset. What McClung also gives the starting lineup is the one single player who can beat his man off the dribble, drive all the way to the hoop and FINISH when he gets there. That is a highly valuable commodity, a sought after skill. That is something Blair does not provide this team. Blair is a solid ballhandler but if he gets pressed too hard he is very likely to cough up the ball. I'm a fan of Blair but he isn't driving to the hoop against a tight defense either. Heck, he isn't even reliable enough from the one area he is supposed to provide this team: long-distance shooting. Despite all their flaws, despite not being a true perfect fit alongside each other, Akinjo and McClung add a dynamic nature to a Hoya backcourt not seen since Iverson and Page (if Freeman and Wright were capable of being that it was lost in the dynamic-dulling offense of III). I would argue that Akinjo and McClung complimented each other better than AI and Page because they have had a longer time to work alongside one another and because neither hogs the ball as much as Iverson did. The only issue with Akinjo and McClung is size. They make for a smallish backcourt. But there have been plenty of other successful backcourt duos of similar height in the history of the NCAA. Such as Anderson and Hunt of UNLV, Travieso and Padilla of UMass fame and Charles Smith and Dwayne Bryant of Georgetown. Besides what they lack in height they make up for in speed, moxie, skill and aggression. If Gardner in a short time develops a jumpshot to go along with his handle I could at least understand the argument of wanting him to be the starting shooting guard (although I would still say no). But Blair? Come on. James and Mac have aspirations to play at the next level but to do so they would have to play one specific position. Unfortunately its the same position. Right now James has the benefit of getting more reps at playing point guard for the Hoyas, but Mac is trying to steal a moment or two for himself as primary ballhandler. Nothing wrong with that. Let them learn. They're getting better all the time. Last of all every time I read these types of opinions the first thing I think of is folks here do not trust Ewing's decisions. Doesn't matter that he is getting better results quicker than the naysayers thought he would or that he keeps bringing in talented players who were under the radar. People still have doubts. I don't have those types of doubts and concerns. When I see McClung in the starting lineup I believe Ewing has him there because he thinks it gives his team a better chance to win. Who am I to argue? excellent post, especially the bit about Akinjo being just as bad about shot selection yet rarely getting called out for it. Mac and James both chuck shots from time to time and aren't perfect, but they're the two most dynamic and talented guards and the best options for the starting backcourt.
|
|
|
Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Aug 14, 2019 13:35:15 GMT -5
FWIW, I think that perception difference comes mostly from outside shooting, as James's 39% compared to Mac's 28% was pretty striking.
Meanwhile, we saw Mac be much more successful on drives and 2-point jump shots, with James's overdribbling being the biggest culprit.
Here's looking forward to better selection (and results) from both players this coming seasons.
|
|
blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,746
|
Post by blueandgray on Aug 14, 2019 13:41:51 GMT -5
While I don’t agree with the original premise, you get better ideas when you stop to challenge the prevailing wisdom to either confirm your thinking or revise your approach. That implies an open mind and good faith argument - neither of which are applicable to The Blue and Gray Board or certain people's viewpoints towards Mac McClung. I like Mac a lot. I just thought it would lead to some good discussion. Again, this was a discussion I was having with a 1000 point scorer under JT3 that brought this to me. I thought it was interesting enough to post and get thoughts on. I was not coming from a bad place....but if it makes you feel better, name call on you want. At the end of the day, I have full faith in Ewing and like how he pulls the strings. There were times where he sat Akinjo at the end of games and times he sat Mac when either guy was negatively impacting chemistry. I have no doubt that this will happen again at several points this year....so Ewing will handle it his own way and the problem will take care of itself.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 14, 2019 14:01:06 GMT -5
That implies an open mind and good faith argument - neither of which are applicable to The Blue and Gray Board or certain people's viewpoints towards Mac McClung. I like Mac a lot. I just thought it would lead to some good discussion. Again, this was a discussion I was having with a 1000 point scorer under JT3 that brought this to me. I thought it was interesting enough to post and get thoughts on. I was not coming from a bad place....but if it makes you feel better, name call on you want. I think discussions like this are interesting. Sure, realistically McClung is likely going to start (along with Akinjo), but I think it's worth pushing boundaries and exploring ideas, even if they are unlikely to come to fruition. I am in the camp of starting both of them, but there were times last year where I do think that their dual presence in the lineup caused things to stagnate at times. Clearly, the better outcome is to avoid the stagnation we saw through coaching them up, more sharing of the ball, etc., but nonetheless I think the idea behind blueandgray's post was worthy of discussion. Assuming Allen is the lock-down defender he was at UCF, I do think Ewing will face situations where he is going to probably have to go with Akinjo or McClung, and not both, along with Allen (though I do think we could certainly see all three simultaneously). I have to assume that Akinjo/McClung will improve defensively this coming season, so maybe the difference won't be as significant, but neither of them were very good defenders last season.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Aug 14, 2019 14:20:20 GMT -5
or, on occasion, Allen will force his way into a small ball lineup with Mackinjo. Regardless, I'd start Mackinjo without question and sub after 5 if the ball movement isn't good enough. A good coach like Ewing will be able to manage the minutes after that to use what's working best. We want our dogs to be dogs. Mac is a willing (albeit flashy) passer and, last year, had some of the best dimes, particularly in transition, that I've seen from a Hoya in years. Akinjo is ball dominant too, but also a willing passer. I think that they both can be coached up and learn to make better decisions with the ball. Kids like playing with them. Let the colts run and be the "it" players they've shown flashes of being. Blair has a role and should embrace it, but it's as an instant offense sniper, not a starter imo. Notwithstanding, thanks to the insightful B&G for bringing a good basketball discussion to the table. No need for us to bash each other just because we disagree with some outside the box thinking.
|
|