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Post by professorhoya on Aug 17, 2019 12:11:36 GMT -5
When was the last time the Hoyas beat ANY 3 consecutive opponents by 30+? I’m not going to argue that we faced murderers’ row, but one of the frustrating aspects of the last 10 or so years is that we have not blown out teams that should have had no business being on the court with us. Howard was the only team we beat by more than 15 points last year. Looking at the prior year is not much different despite a historically weak schedule... Well The Princeton (AS well ad Pack Line, stall Defense) is a stall offense so its not designed to have huge scoring which would allow for huge margins
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Aug 17, 2019 12:12:32 GMT -5
Which is why I don't really think too much on how weak the opponents are. I saw someone write on twitter or this site that these Bahama teams were the equivalent of St. Leo. I don't know how true that is but the point that is missed is that the GOOD Hoya teams put a beating on those St Leo squads as a tuneup for overall dominating regular seasons. Those first couple teams weren't even bad Kenner level teams. The Bahamaian National team as constructed was better than St. Leo and we beat them badly so your point remains.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Aug 17, 2019 12:31:04 GMT -5
Like everyone else I was extremely impressed with the collective effort of this team. The defense especially impressed me. As stated by others, it reminded me of JT2’s teams in the 80’s. What was most impressive was the INSTINCTIVE help defense by the players. In The he recent pass Hoya big mean have not been able to protect the bucket despite their height, because they were extremely susceptible to the pump fake or left their feet before the offensive man left his. These Hoya big men seem to have a better feel for when to jump to block the shot. This is somewhat tempered by the lack of pump fakes by the Bahamian teams. However this brings me back to the help defense aspect of this team. I believe the lack of pump fakes may have been that they knew that if they pumped faked and did not shoot, then by the time they went up again the help defense would have swarmed them. What will be interesting to see is what adjustments the BE officials will make to this RETURN TO THE FUTURE Hoya defense. Will they too return to the (lets make it fair for the other team) refereeing or will they call it straight up. I am very excited about these young Hoyas. The only question not answered by their play last week was how efficient will the half court offense be. Teams like a Syracuse will definitely test their efficiency. The few PNR by the guards with the big men that I saw would have resulted in a moving screen call on the big men, but, hey these were exhibition games with limited practice time before.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Aug 17, 2019 13:31:18 GMT -5
When was the last time the Hoyas beat ANY 3 consecutive opponents by 30+? I’m not going to argue that we faced murderers’ row, but one of the frustrating aspects of the last 10 or so years is that we have not blown out teams that should have had no business being on the court with us. Howard was the only team we beat by more than 15 points last year. Looking at the prior year is not much different despite a historically weak schedule... Well The Princeton (AS well ad Pack Line, stall Defense) is a stall offense so its not designed to have huge scoring which would allow for huge margins True, but that was a weakness of the Princeton offense....we had a hard time getting separation from anyone including the St. Leo’s of the world. Not being able to put teams away has been a problem IMHO.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 17, 2019 13:53:49 GMT -5
Well The Princeton (AS well ad Pack Line, stall Defense) is a stall offense so its not designed to have huge scoring which would allow for huge margins True, but that was a weakness of the Princeton offense....we had a hard time getting separation from anyone including the St. Leo’s of the world. Not being able to put teams away has been a problem IMHO. This was my issue even during III's peak years at GU. The Hoyas could shoot over 60% from the floor, perhaps 20% to 25% better than the opposition, but lead by five or less points at halftime. On their own home floor. That offense often kept opponents, inferior ones I might add, in games and thus close enough to pull out a win.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 17, 2019 14:27:29 GMT -5
Well The Princeton (AS well ad Pack Line, stall Defense) is a stall offense so its not designed to have huge scoring which would allow for huge margins True, but that was a weakness of the Princeton offense....we had a hard time getting separation from anyone including the St. Leo’s of the world. Not being able to put teams away has been a problem IMHO. That wasn't really true at all - it's something that's been debunked multiple times but some folks keep perpetuating it. Right up there with "The Princeton can't come back" and "we had so many close calls against bad teams under JTIII". None of those are really true at all. I'm hopeful for this year because Yurt looks like a legit replacement for Govan, our freshmen guards are now sophomores, and Ewing has definitely started to bring in athletes to play defense. That said, the competition here was pretty horrible from the highlights I saw, so the usual summer calls of "we're really going to run" and "we're so deep" are pretty pointless. Maybe we are, maybe we aren't. But to run like we did in the Bahamas, we'd have to force turnovers -- something Ewing's team have not done yet. And let's see how our new players perform against Big East players before thinking we can shuttle them out there. I know, curmudgeon. I am actually excited, but I'm just not sure Big East teams are going to dribble into our size with a 5'7" guard and try to post them up like I saw on the highlights.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Aug 17, 2019 15:20:04 GMT -5
True, but that was a weakness of the Princeton offense....we had a hard time getting separation from anyone including the St. Leo’s of the world. Not being able to put teams away has been a problem IMHO. That wasn't really true at all - it's something that's been debunked multiple times but some folks keep perpetuating it. Right up there with "The Princeton can't come back" and "we had so many close calls against bad teams under JTIII". None of those are really true at all. I'm hopeful for this year because Yurt looks like a legit replacement for Govan, our freshmen guards are now sophomores, and Ewing has definitely started to bring in athletes to play defense. That said, the competition here was pretty horrible from the highlights I saw, so the usual summer calls of "we're really going to run" and "we're so deep" are pretty pointless. Maybe we are, maybe we aren't. But to run like we did in the Bahamas, we'd have to force turnovers -- something Ewing's team have not done yet. And let's see how our new players perform against Big East players before thinking we can shuttle them out there. I know, curmudgeon. I am actually excited, but I'm just not sure Big East teams are going to dribble into our size with a 5'7" guard and try to post them up like I saw on the highlights. It was absolutely true that games that should have been over did not feel over to the opponents or the fans. An 8 point lead with 8 minutes to play....sure you can squeeze the air out of the ball....or you can make 2-3 bonehead mistakes and the game is virtually tied. In contrast, a 20 point lead request 6-10 mistakes.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 17, 2019 15:21:21 GMT -5
True, but that was a weakness of the Princeton offense....we had a hard time getting separation from anyone including the St. Leo’s of the world. Not being able to put teams away has been a problem IMHO. That wasn't really true at all - it's something that's been debunked multiple times but some folks keep perpetuating it. Right up there with "The Princeton can't come back" and "we had so many close calls against bad teams under JTIII". None of those are really true at all. I'm hopeful for this year because Yurt looks like a legit replacement for Govan, our freshmen guards are now sophomores, and Ewing has definitely started to bring in athletes to play defense. That said, the competition here was pretty horrible from the highlights I saw, so the usual summer calls of "we're really going to run" and "we're so deep" are pretty pointless. Maybe we are, maybe we aren't. But to run like we did in the Bahamas, we'd have to force turnovers -- something Ewing's team have not done yet. And let's see how our new players perform against Big East players before thinking we can shuttle them out there. I know, curmudgeon. I am actually excited, but I'm just not sure Big East teams are going to dribble into our size with a 5'7" guard and try to post them up like I saw on the highlights. Very well stated points SF...
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Post by doublehoya0310 on Aug 17, 2019 17:27:27 GMT -5
This the same team we just beat?
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Aug 17, 2019 18:40:37 GMT -5
Memphis beat the Bahamian National Team by 10 (compared to our 30 point win). They outscored them by 6 in the first half and 4 in the second half. The box score suggest is was close. Cornish did play.
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Aug 17, 2019 19:01:26 GMT -5
This the same team we just beat? Fight?
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 17, 2019 19:23:53 GMT -5
That wasn't really true at all - it's something that's been debunked multiple times but some folks keep perpetuating it. Right up there with "The Princeton can't come back" and "we had so many close calls against bad teams under JTIII". None of those are really true at all. I'm hopeful for this year because Yurt looks like a legit replacement for Govan, our freshmen guards are now sophomores, and Ewing has definitely started to bring in athletes to play defense. That said, the competition here was pretty horrible from the highlights I saw, so the usual summer calls of "we're really going to run" and "we're so deep" are pretty pointless. Maybe we are, maybe we aren't. But to run like we did in the Bahamas, we'd have to force turnovers -- something Ewing's team have not done yet. And let's see how our new players perform against Big East players before thinking we can shuttle them out there. I know, curmudgeon. I am actually excited, but I'm just not sure Big East teams are going to dribble into our size with a 5'7" guard and try to post them up like I saw on the highlights. It was absolutely true that games that should have been over did not feel over to the opponents or the fans. An 8 point lead with 8 minutes to play....sure you can squeeze the air out of the ball....or you can make 2-3 bonehead mistakes and the game is virtually tied. In contrast, a 20 point lead request 6-10 mistakes. This. Both sides of this debate will apparently accuse each other of revisionism, but I stand by my take. The efficiency of the offense was often countered by the inability to score enough to pull away early or earlier. And when we got punched in the mouth early, coming completely back from a deficit was harder than it had to be. That's my opinion at least.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Aug 17, 2019 21:41:38 GMT -5
The biggest reason for optimism is replacing Govan, Trey, and Greg with Yurt, Q, and Galen defensively.
The freshmen will improve and Allen adds defensive depth but even without that, the frontcourt is so much better defensively from a personnel standpoint.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Aug 17, 2019 23:00:22 GMT -5
Memphis beat the Bahamian National Team by 10 (compared to our 30 point win). They outscored them by 6 in the first half and 4 in the second half. The box score suggest is was close. Cornish did play.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Aug 17, 2019 23:26:00 GMT -5
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 18, 2019 4:12:19 GMT -5
Looks like Memphis was holding church on the court with all of its followers in the pews. They travel well as a program.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Aug 18, 2019 6:30:13 GMT -5
Memphis is a state school with 17,000 undergrads. Georgetown is a private school with 7,000 undergrads. We will never travel well compared to large schools with decent basketball programs- the math is not in our favor.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Aug 18, 2019 6:45:24 GMT -5
Memphis is a state school with 17,000 undergrads. Georgetown is a private school with 7,000 undergrads. We will never travel well compared to large schools with decent basketball programs- the math is not in our favor. Undergraduates don't travel, fans do, and it's a fact that Georgetown has lost much of its fan base over the last 10-15 years. Today's fan base is less than half of the fan base Villanova has and trails most Big East schools--not only in attendance, but fan engagement and support. When a conversation starts with: "I remember when John Thompson..." it's increasingly an older demographic, too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 8:13:48 GMT -5
Memphis is a state school with 17,000 undergrads. Georgetown is a private school with 7,000 undergrads. We will never travel well compared to large schools with decent basketball programs- the math is not in our favor. Undergraduates don't travel, fans do, and it's a fact that Georgetown has lost much of its fan base over the last 10-15 years. Today's fan base is less than half of the fan base Villanova has and trails most Big East schools--not only in attendance, but fan engagement and support. When a conversation starts with: "I remember when John Thompson..." it's increasingly an older demographic, too. But program success can’t be the narrative, right? Because both programs have pretty much the same (tourney appearance/“success”) track record over the past 11-12 years. And those fans who start sentences with John Thompson are the ones now bitching about how the coaching tree hasn’t branched out.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Aug 18, 2019 8:29:53 GMT -5
Fan base is going to consist of alums, so student population is a factor. Pat seems to be engaged and we are recruiting area kids. Staying in the top-25 also helps as your highlights get aired nationally. I am going to games again as our brand of basketball is fun to watch again 😎👍🏻
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