EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 8, 2019 14:18:09 GMT -5
Fair question, hard to say. Patrick certainly brought Allen in for a reason, to have a quality backup, but expected James to have the lion's share of the minutes. At the same time, Ewing's obvious increasing frustration with the lack of ball movement may have been getting to the point that Terrell was going to get his chance, if for no other reason than to send Akinjo the message that he needed to buy into the plan. I'll keep asking the same question which is why didn't we see at least a glimpse of this type of play from Allen when he did play early in the season? The first 6 games of the year Allen played a total of 83 minutes(13.8mpg), in that time he had a total of 5 assists... www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/terrell-allen-2/gamelog/2020To me, it was evident again last night that the staff has made at minimum some tweaks in the way the team plays since the transfers... When you think about it, it makes sense given that a coach should always try to play to the strengths of his players. It wouldn't make sense to ask them to do the same things JA could do when they're not capable of it... Even more to the point, it'd be hard to convince me that the coaching staff would allow the team/season to get hijacked by one player...
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 8, 2019 14:28:26 GMT -5
Would love to get a grad transfer PG every year....but not every grad transfer was 5th in the nation in assists last year. Not to be accused of ruining a good story again but I'm pretty sure the 4.3apg that TA put up last season wasn't 5th in the nation assists last year...
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Dec 8, 2019 14:44:41 GMT -5
Yikes...my bad. Someone pases that stat along to me and I didn’t properly vet it.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Dec 8, 2019 14:47:30 GMT -5
In the college game you usually think of the team taking on the coach’s personality, but it seems more like this team is taking on its point guard’s personality. Akinjo seemed to want to challenge everyone he went against to a Mano-a-Mano duel. James returning Quincy McKnight’s floor slap may have been the highlight of last season, but at times this style also meant stubbornly driving into the trees and taking I’ll advised shots. The rest of the team seemed to follow suit—Hoyas wanted to engage in individual battles, opponents did not often reciprocate. Terrell Allen is a totally different animal. He is pure provider, and only looks for his own shot when it’s in the game’ rhythm. He tries to make everyone else better, give Mac and Blair and etc. the chance to put up the numbers while he mixes the drink. And it’s not just Allen dropping dimes. In each of the last 2 games, 5 players have had at least 2 assists. Everyone is following Allen’s lead. To be clear, I liked watching Akinjo and thought he’d become a star. But he hadn’t developed the PG’s skill of making those around him better (at least not yet) and Hoyas suffered as a result. It’s Allen’s team now—and so far that’s a very good thing. The style of play the last two games is what Ewing was talking about two summers ago when he picked up Akinjo and Malinowski. Malinowski talked about it during early Big East interviews. Akinjo was is a solid PG with a PG center focus style of play. He had just de-committed from UConn and Patrick was on his doorstep with in 24 hours. Most college coaches come into programs from other college programs or have a solid book of potential recruits available. Ewing didn't have one coming in, Georgetown had a very different focus and seemed to not have a great set of potential recruits in the pipeline. Building a pipeline is a three to five year process and buiiding relationships. Having a somewhat thin book of potential recruits and not having an established style of play nor some record of success the recruiting process is often picking up the best players you can get, reguardless of fit and finding a way to make it work. The past two game seems to be exactly what Patrick has been talking about. Allen is the type of PG that fits that style well with create well for others and really good distribution, but can score if other options aren't there. Watching the teams that have had success in late March, it is teams with disciplined distribute first guards that play heads up. Many of the schools have PGs that are in junior or senior year.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Dec 8, 2019 16:09:19 GMT -5
Would love to get a grad transfer PG every year....but not every grad transfer was 5th in the nation in assists last year. Not to be accused of ruining a good story again but I'm pretty sure the 4.3apg that TA put up last season wasn't 5th in the nation assists last year... I think they meant 5th in the AAC...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 16:13:07 GMT -5
Fair question, hard to say. Patrick certainly brought Allen in for a reason, to have a quality backup, but expected James to have the lion's share of the minutes. At the same time, Ewing's obvious increasing frustration with the lack of ball movement may have been getting to the point that Terrell was going to get his chance, if for no other reason than to send Akinjo the message that he needed to buy into the plan. I'll keep asking the same question which is why didn't we see at least a glimpse of this type of play from Allen when he did play early in the season? The first 6 games of the year Allen played a total of 83 minutes(13.8mpg), in that time he had a total of 5 assists... www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/terrell-allen-2/gamelog/2020To me, it was evident again last night that the staff has made at minimum some tweaks in the way the team plays since the transfers... When you think about it, it makes sense given that a coach should always try to play to the strengths of his players. It wouldn't make sense to ask them to do the same things JA could do when they're not capable of it... Even more to the point, it'd be hard to convince me that the coaching staff would allow the team/season to get hijacked by one player... I think they thought if they could get James to play like Allen the ceiling is higher for the team because he has more offensive punch. For whatever reason they could never make that happen. I think the SMU coach's quote was interesting to say the least even if it just confirmed a lot of what we saw. I also think neither one of those teams are particularly great rn (OSU will be once they get their pg back). So I'm still in a wait and see approach. But it's clear Allen makes guys more comfortable, and I feel like roles are more clearly defined with him at the pg. You know whose getting the ball, and how have to play to win. We have to be really good defensively (still work to do on that end) and play off Yurt and McClung on offense.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 8, 2019 16:55:08 GMT -5
I'll keep asking the same question which is why didn't we see at least a glimpse of this type of play from Allen when he did play early in the season? The first 6 games of the year Allen played a total of 83 minutes(13.8mpg), in that time he had a total of 5 assists... www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/terrell-allen-2/gamelog/2020To me, it was evident again last night that the staff has made at minimum some tweaks in the way the team plays since the transfers... When you think about it, it makes sense given that a coach should always try to play to the strengths of his players. It wouldn't make sense to ask them to do the same things JA could do when they're not capable of it... Even more to the point, it'd be hard to convince me that the coaching staff would allow the team/season to get hijacked by one player... I think they thought if they could get James to play like Allen the ceiling is higher for the team because he has more offensive punch. For whatever reason they could never make that happen. I think the SMU coach's quote was interesting to say the least even if it just confirmed a lot of what we saw. I also think neither one of those teams are particularly great rn (OSU will be once they get their pg back). So I'm still in a wait and see approach. But it's clear Allen makes guys more comfortable, and I feel like roles are more clearly defined with him at the pg. You know whose getting the ball, and how have to play to win. We have to be really good defensively (still work to do on that end) and play off Yurt and McClung on offense. I hear you about what the staff may have been thinking in regards to Akinjo but I still have to wonder why the ball movement didn't pick up when Allen subbed in during previous games... What did the coach say?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 17:13:39 GMT -5
I think they thought if they could get James to play like Allen the ceiling is higher for the team because he has more offensive punch. For whatever reason they could never make that happen. I think the SMU coach's quote was interesting to say the least even if it just confirmed a lot of what we saw. I also think neither one of those teams are particularly great rn (OSU will be once they get their pg back). So I'm still in a wait and see approach. But it's clear Allen makes guys more comfortable, and I feel like roles are more clearly defined with him at the pg. You know whose getting the ball, and how have to play to win. We have to be really good defensively (still work to do on that end) and play off Yurt and McClung on offense. I hear you about what the staff may have been thinking in regards to Akinjo but I still have to wonder why the ball movement didn't pick up when Allen subbed in during previous games... What did the coach say? My fault it was one of their players "Sometimes when you lose players, it's not always a bad thing," Ray added. "We watched a little bit of film, and there was a lot of one-on-one where they didn't really share the ball too much. A lot of that was through the guys that left. It might turn out for the better for their team, we don't know."
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Post by HamptonHoya on Dec 8, 2019 17:18:25 GMT -5
I hear you about what the staff may have been thinking in regards to Akinjo but I still have to wonder why the ball movement didn't pick up when Allen subbed in during previous games... What did the coach say? My fault it was one of their players "Sometimes when you lose players, it's not always a bad thing," Ray added. "We watched a little bit of film, and there was a lot of one-on-one where they didn't really share the ball too much. A lot of that was through the guys that left. It might turn out for the better for their team, we don't know." Pretty observant on behalf of the SMU players (and staff). In regards to Allen, could it be that he was pressing too much before knowing he was only in for a breather or that he had a short leash. Coach now told him to relax, he has the keys.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Dec 8, 2019 17:19:20 GMT -5
It's a good question, Etomic. Ball movement is contagious. So is lack of ball movement. It's not easy for guys to mentally flip a switch when someone like Akinjo subs out. And in some cases guys will press even more thinking it's their only chance to get shots up.
The staff deserves credit too, no doubt, but it's not like they had time to change the entire offense in a couple days. The sets can't all be brand new. Seems to me Allen is actually running the plays and moving the ball and not dribbling the air out of the thing, and everyone is playing for each other as a result.
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Post by cgallstar02 on Dec 8, 2019 17:37:45 GMT -5
Fair question, hard to say. Patrick certainly brought Allen in for a reason, to have a quality backup, but expected James to have the lion's share of the minutes. At the same time, Ewing's obvious increasing frustration with the lack of ball movement may have been getting to the point that Terrell was going to get his chance, if for no other reason than to send Akinjo the message that he needed to buy into the plan. I'll keep asking the same question which is why didn't we see at least a glimpse of this type of play from Allen when he did play early in the season? The first 6 games of the year Allen played a total of 83 minutes(13.8mpg), in that time he had a total of 5 assists... www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/terrell-allen-2/gamelog/2020To me, it was evident again last night that the staff has made at minimum some tweaks in the way the team plays since the transfers... When you think about it, it makes sense given that a coach should always try to play to the strengths of his players. It wouldn't make sense to ask them to do the same things JA could do when they're not capable of it... Even more to the point, it'd be hard to convince me that the coaching staff would allow the team/season to get hijacked by one player... To me there is nothing Allen is particularly better at than JA outside of defense. James is the better ball handler, better passer (when he wants to be) and the better shooter/scorer. The difference between them is purely mental and their approach to the game. Allen is selfless, doesn't care about much he scores or his numbers, and wants to win at all costs. JA only cared about his numbers and how much he scored, didn't want to see his teammates shine, and was more interested in winning one on one battles with opposing point guards than winning actual games. If he had Allen's approach to the game, he could've easily averaged around 10 points and 8 assists a game, but it's clear now he envisioned himself as more of a Marcus Howard/Myles Powell type player than as a pass first PG that could still score some when needed. I'm sure the uncle's influence didn't help. He likely planted the seed that he needed to score more to play in the league, which ironically couldn't be farther from the truth. There's a reason Howard and Powell didn't leave early for the draft. James only chance at the league is/was as a backup, role playing, pass first PG... a TJ McConnell type, but he and the uncle clearly think he's the next Damian Lillard. In regards to why Allen didn't play this way early in the season, to me the answer is simple. If you moved Harden, Doncic, Trae Young, or some other prolific scorer to the bench and started playing them 12-15 mins per game opposed to their customary 35-40, I think you would see their per 48 scoring, boards and assists, along with their shooting percentages all take drastic falls. It's hard to get into a rhythm when you're coming into a game for 4 minutes then coming right back out. On top of that, there was absolutely 0 role definition for anyone besides James and Yurt before the transfers. Ewing's sub patterns were all over the place. Some bench player might get 0 minutes in the first half then play 15 in the second half. On top of that, there was still the Akinjo effect. Which meant everyone was playing more selfishly and taking more bad shots as a result of starting the game with James who was doing the bare minimum to get others involved. I'm sure guys mentality of playing with James simply carried over once Allen came in the game. Also consider the fact that Allen definitely played minutes at the 2/3 with JA at the point. In those cases he would've had to defer to JA as the primary playmaker, and also given the fact that JA would purposely not pass the ball to Mac, I wouldn't be surprised if Allen got the same treatment considering I'm sure JA viewed him as a threat to steal playing time from him.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 8, 2019 17:50:39 GMT -5
Disagree, that Akinjo is a better passer and shooter. He is able to take his man off the dribble better. James doesn’t have a smooth stroke, the new distance pulls him way out of range.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 8, 2019 20:06:21 GMT -5
It's a good question, Etomic. Ball movement is contagious. So is lack of ball movement. It's not easy for guys to mentally flip a switch when someone like Akinjo subs out. And in some cases guys will press even more thinking it's their only chance to get shots up. The staff deserves credit too, no doubt, but it's not like they had time to change the entire offense in a couple days. The sets can't all be brand new. Seems to me Allen is actually running the plays and moving the ball and not dribbling the air out of the thing, and everyone is playing for each other as a result. I agree that the plays or sets aren't brand new but some are tweaked or used much less, that's my point... When Akinjo was playing the team ran the high screen game a lot, I think we'd all agree on that. I hated it to be honest but it could easily be argued that when you have a dynamic ball-handler that it's a good play... These last two games the high screen game has been minimized a great deal in my opinion... Anyone, who dvr'd the game last night go back & watch the 1st 8-10 Gtown possessions to see how many high screen type plays they ran to start a possession? The answer is none. I just think it's a lot more than "Akinjo was a selfish player" for the turnaround...
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Dec 8, 2019 20:29:41 GMT -5
Sure, I agree with that. My guess is it's probably a combination of both. It would make sense for the staff to call fewer basic PnR sets with Akinjo gone, and they deserve credit for that. I wasn't a fan either.
That said, I did notice a frequent pattern with Akinjo where he'd overdribble or try to do something himself and a play would fizzle out, and then they would scramble to set up something else with the remaining shot clock -- often a PnR since it's quick. So I think it's unclear how much has changed due to strategy vs. personnel, but it's likely a combination.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Dec 8, 2019 20:53:04 GMT -5
I hear you about what the staff may have been thinking in regards to Akinjo but I still have to wonder why the ball movement didn't pick up when Allen subbed in during previous games... What did the coach say? My fault it was one of their players "Sometimes when you lose players, it's not always a bad thing," Ray added. "We watched a little bit of film, and there was a lot of one-on-one where they didn't really share the ball too much. A lot of that was through the guys that left. It might turn out for the better for their team, we don't know."
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Dec 8, 2019 21:06:36 GMT -5
I think they thought if they could get James to play like Allen the ceiling is higher for the team because he has more offensive punch. For whatever reason they could never make that happen. I think the SMU coach's quote was interesting to say the least even if it just confirmed a lot of what we saw. I also think neither one of those teams are particularly great rn (OSU will be once they get their pg back). So I'm still in a wait and see approach. But it's clear Allen makes guys more comfortable, and I feel like roles are more clearly defined with him at the pg. You know whose getting the ball, and how have to play to win. We have to be really good defensively (still work to do on that end) and play off Yurt and McClung on offense. I hear you about what the staff may have been thinking in regards to Akinjo but I still have to wonder why the ball movement didn't pick up when Allen subbed in during previous games... What did the coach say? Also I’m not sure how much time Allen got with the rest of the starters earlier in the season. I think he was mostly running the teal team (second unit) which would likely have a negative impact on his numbers. As was mentioned in the analytics thread, the combination of Jagan, Mac, and Allen only had 6 possessions together prior to Wednesday. It’s not the only answer, but it could be part of the answer to your question.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 8, 2019 21:31:06 GMT -5
Sure, I agree with that. My guess is it's probably a combination of both. It would make sense for the staff to call fewer basic PnR sets with Akinjo gone, and they deserve credit for that. I wasn't a fan either. That said, I did notice a frequent pattern with Akinjo where he'd overdribble or try to do something himself and a play would fizzle out, and then they would scramble to set up something else with the remaining shot clock -- often a PnR since it's quick. So I think it's unclear how much has changed due to strategy vs. personnel, but it's likely a combination. The first time they ran it yesterday with Mac, he did exactly what you just described which went nowhere, the possession ended with a contested 3 from the corner from Pickett... Some teams can thrive in the high screen set, for whatever reason Gtown isn't one of them...
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 8, 2019 21:54:13 GMT -5
Fair question, hard to say. Patrick certainly brought Allen in for a reason, to have a quality backup, but expected James to have the lion's share of the minutes. At the same time, Ewing's obvious increasing frustration with the lack of ball movement may have been getting to the point that Terrell was going to get his chance, if for no other reason than to send Akinjo the message that he needed to buy into the plan. I'll keep asking the same question which is why didn't we see at least a glimpse of this type of play from Allen when he did play early in the season? The first 6 games of the year Allen played a total of 83 minutes(13.8mpg), in that time he had a total of 5 assists... www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/terrell-allen-2/gamelog/2020To me, it was evident again last night that the staff has made at minimum some tweaks in the way the team plays since the transfers... When you think about it, it makes sense given that a coach should always try to play to the strengths of his players. It wouldn't make sense to ask them to do the same things JA could do when they're not capable of it... Even more to the point, it'd be hard to convince me that the coaching staff would allow the team/season to get hijacked by one player... Allen was out there with the backups which were offensively lacking to say the least. Blair was in his funk which didn’t help. Myron is not great offensively yet. Q just posts up. You could see what Allen was capable of but guys still need to hit shots and the backups weren't. The Bahamas clearly showed it as well.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 8, 2019 22:39:19 GMT -5
It's a good question, Etomic. Ball movement is contagious. So is lack of ball movement. It's not easy for guys to mentally flip a switch when someone like Akinjo subs out. And in some cases guys will press even more thinking it's their only chance to get shots up. The staff deserves credit too, no doubt, but it's not like they had time to change the entire offense in a couple days. The sets can't all be brand new. Seems to me Allen is actually running the plays and moving the ball and not dribbling the air out of the thing, and everyone is playing for each other as a result. I agree that the plays or sets aren't brand new but some are tweaked or used much less, that's my point... When Akinjo was playing the team ran the high screen game a lot, I think we'd all agree on that. I hated it to be honest but it could easily be argued that when you have a dynamic ball-handler that it's a good play... These last two games the high screen game has been minimized a great deal in my opinion... Anyone, who dvr'd the game last night go back & watch the 1st 8-10 Gtown possessions to see how many high screen type plays they ran to start a possession? The answer is none. I just think it's a lot more than "Akinjo was a selfish player" for the turnaround... Agree. Add to that that, if you're one of the better players in your conference, being a bit selfish is probably a good thing as long as you deliver. James wasn't delivering this year. One can blame that on many things but the coach can't pass or shoot for you. Whatever animosity there was prior, James not coming through, likely, exacerbated the situation both from the perspective of his coach being frustrated with his "selfish" play and with James probably feeling like Patrick was trying to reel him in because he wasn't delivering. "Selfish" is usually very much dependent on results. If James had been delivering, selfish all of a sudden becomes "big-time player" or "makes tough shots."
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zxhoya
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Post by zxhoya on Dec 8, 2019 22:54:40 GMT -5
My fault it was one of their players "Sometimes when you lose players, it's not always a bad thing," Ray added. "We watched a little bit of film, and there was a lot of one-on-one where they didn't really share the ball too much. A lot of that was through the guys that left. It might turn out for the better for their team, we don't know." That young man is a future coach for sure.
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