prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
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Post by prhoya on Mar 31, 2019 13:18:43 GMT -5
I wish they’d never hired him or at least had actually conducted a real search before deciding on him. When it’s time to replace him, I hope they move on from the Thompson family tree. Why though? Who do you think is more qualified that was available? Is there someone else you preferred? Do you not like having someone with 30+ years of basketball experience at the highest level? Do you think that GU conducted a national coaching search to replace JT3?
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Mar 31, 2019 13:19:36 GMT -5
Orrrrr. It could just be a objective conversation, you don’t have to assign people to teams and prejudge. People can be fans or not be fans of JT3 or the Thompsons and still have an objective and reasonable discussion about Patrick EWINGs coaching ability. Crazy idea, huh. And I’m support J Wallace but it’s funny nobody has any problem with him being on the staff despite having virtually no coaching experience. Is it because he got into Princeton and Ewing simply got recruited to play at GU? Or is it because all guards are better coaches than all big men? Would love to hear some reasoning behind that... Do you think what ProfessorHoya posted yesterday was an objective way to start a conversation about Gtown basketball? I didn’t read or don’t remember reading what he posted I’m only focused on the messages I respond to for the most part.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,962
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 31, 2019 13:25:16 GMT -5
Do you think what ProfessorHoya posted yesterday was an objective way to start a conversation about Gtown basketball? I didn’t read or don’t remember reading what he posted I’m only focused on the messages I respond to for the most part. That's fine but by doing that you run the risk of taking other posts out of context which seems to be the case here...
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
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Post by LCPolo18 on Mar 31, 2019 13:25:53 GMT -5
Who stated in any way that PE does not deserve a fair shot because he played for JT2? Much more often than not these conversations are started by Thompson defenders, not his critics. This very conversation is an example of it... Orrrrr. It could just be a objective conversation, you don’t have to assign people to teams and prejudge. People can be fans or not be fans of JT3 or the Thompsons and still have an objective and reasonable discussion about Patrick EWINGs coaching ability. Crazy idea, huh. And I’m support J Wallace but it’s funny nobody has any problem with him being on the staff despite having virtually no coaching experience. Is it because he got into Princeton and Ewing simply got recruited to play at GU? Or is it because all guards are better coaches than all big men? Would love to hear some reasoning behind that... What point are you trying to make about Jonathan Wallace? People aren’t concerned about his position probably because Jonathan Wallace isn’t an assistant coach with recruiting responsibilities. He’s a special assistant/head manager. It’s extremely common for former players that have an interest in coaching to seek out these types of positions to get a start in coaching. It has nothing to do with playing position or background. Considering JT3 hired both Wallace and PE Jr to his staff show that he wasn’t biased about playing position. Plus Ewing didn’t have to keep him on staff but he did, so he must be doing a decent job.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Mar 31, 2019 13:26:03 GMT -5
I mean it was a factor, but Patrick was more than qualified. Just because he knows the Thompson’s doesn’t also mean that he can’t be a good and qualified coach. People need to think further than “oh he knows JT2! Nepotism! We’re hiring just because they’re friends!” Who said or implied that PE didn't have experience or that he can't be a good coach? A lot of people have implied that nepotism got him the job rather than relationships or qualifications. Last time I checked he’s not actually in the Thompson family, he just played for one of them and kept in touch ver the years as Im sure dozens of former Hoyas still do. I didn’t see him come around that often when JT3 was here. In fact, he sent his own flesh and blood to Indiana...
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Mar 31, 2019 13:30:16 GMT -5
Why though? Who do you think is more qualified that was available? Is there someone else you preferred? Do you not like having someone with 30+ years of basketball experience at the highest level? Do you think that GU conducted a national coaching search to replace JT3? I think they interviewed more than just Ewing and there’s isnt some requirement that there be some type of national search. First of all no need to over complicate things, if the best fit (clearly what they thought) is already staring you in the face why wait . And two, the writing was on the wall for months I’m sure they did evaluate all of their options and were prepared and well into their plan when they fired JT3. If I were an ad I’d have a firm plan in place before firing any coach, especially with one that’s intertwined with the fabric of the program.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Mar 31, 2019 13:35:38 GMT -5
I didn’t read or don’t remember reading what he posted I’m only focused on the messages I respond to for the most part. That's fine but by doing that you run the risk of taking other posts out of context which seems to be the case here... Yes, but not in this case. I was responding to the second part of the post which is a generalization that I was trying to push back on. No need to prejudge. Again, just because someone supported JT3 doesn’t mean they can’t support Ewing. I support the program and I like to think I see them both clearly their faults and all and I’m a fan of both. I just think fans can be impatient in general and get caught up in thinking the grass is greener when it’s often not. Either way, the jury is very much out on Ewing it’s only been 2 years and not even a full two from a coach-cycle perspective. It’s a process, patience is required. A lot would argue otherwise, but I think we’ve rebounded as well as reasonably could’ve been asked after losing the centerpiece of our 2017 class.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Mar 31, 2019 13:36:31 GMT -5
Orrrrr. It could just be a objective conversation, you don’t have to assign people to teams and prejudge. People can be fans or not be fans of JT3 or the Thompsons and still have an objective and reasonable discussion about Patrick EWINGs coaching ability. Crazy idea, huh. And I’m support J Wallace but it’s funny nobody has any problem with him being on the staff despite having virtually no coaching experience. Is it because he got into Princeton and Ewing simply got recruited to play at GU? Or is it because all guards are better coaches than all big men? Would love to hear some reasoning behind that... What point are you trying to make about Jonathan Wallace? People aren’t concerned about his position probably because Jonathan Wallace isn’t an assistant coach with recruiting responsibilities. He’s a special assistant/head manager. It’s extremely common for former players that have an interest in coaching to seek out these types of positions to get a start in coaching. It has nothing to do with playing position or background. Considering JT3 hired both Wallace and PE Jr to his staff show that he wasn’t biased about playing position. Plus Ewing didn’t have to keep him on staff but he did, so he must be doing a decent job. That he wasn’t exactly qualified for his job and likely got preference because of his proximity. Like I said I’m a big fan of him but I’m just calling it like it is. Some of what you said isn’t factual. You can spin it any way you want but it’s no different than Ewing. Ewing used to play for the Hoyas too. He sent his son to IU for two years before he transferred back to GU, so not exactly like he was more than a basketball alum who kept in touch it’s his former coach. In Ewing’s case though, he’s much more qualified for the job he was hired for than Wallace was for him. I get that people don’t care as much because he’s not the head coach, but imho they should. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Ewing isn’t the only one who’s on staff.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
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Post by LCPolo18 on Mar 31, 2019 13:41:24 GMT -5
What point are you trying to make about Jonathan Wallace? People aren’t concerned about his position probably because Jonathan Wallace isn’t an assistant coach with recruiting responsibilities. He’s a special assistant/head manager. It’s extremely common for former players that have an interest in coaching to seek out these types of positions to get a start in coaching. It has nothing to do with playing position or background. Considering JT3 hired both Wallace and PE Jr to his staff show that he wasn’t biased about playing position. Plus Ewing didn’t have to keep him on staff but he did, so he must be doing a decent job. That he wasn’t exactly qualified for his job and likely got preference because of his proximity. So then did you read the rest of my response? It’s essentially an apprentice position that doesn’t require experience. Yes, he probably wouldn’t have gotten the job if he wasn’t a former player, but it’s not a job that has a huge bearing on the program. Like I said, he’s not an assistant coach, which would be a bigger deal if he didn’t have experience.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
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Post by LCPolo18 on Mar 31, 2019 13:42:44 GMT -5
What point are you trying to make about Jonathan Wallace? People aren’t concerned about his position probably because Jonathan Wallace isn’t an assistant coach with recruiting responsibilities. He’s a special assistant/head manager. It’s extremely common for former players that have an interest in coaching to seek out these types of positions to get a start in coaching. It has nothing to do with playing position or background. Considering JT3 hired both Wallace and PE Jr to his staff show that he wasn’t biased about playing position. Plus Ewing didn’t have to keep him on staff but he did, so he must be doing a decent job. That he wasn’t exactly qualified for his job and likely got preference because of his proximity. Like I said I’m a big fan of him but I’m just calling it like it is. Some of what you said isn’t factual. You can spin it any way you want but it’s no different than Ewing. Ewing used to play for the Hoyas too. He sent his son to IU for two years before he transferred back to GU, so not exactly like he was more than a basketball alum who kept in touch it’s his former coach. In Ewing’s case though, he’s much more qualified for the job he was hired for than Wallace was for him. I get that people don’t care as much because he’s not the head coach, but imho they should. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Ewing isn’t the only one who’s on staff. What did I write that wasn’t factual?
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Mar 31, 2019 13:56:37 GMT -5
That he wasn’t exactly qualified for his job and likely got preference because of his proximity. So then did you read the rest of my response? It’s essentially an apprentice position that doesn’t require experience. Yes, he probably wouldn’t have gotten the job if he wasn’t a former player, but it’s not a job that has a huge bearing on the program. Like I said, he’s not an assistant coach, which would be a bigger deal if he didn’t have experience. Yes, but my point bearing on the program or not, nepotism is nepotism. I get that Wallace is getting his foot in the door and in some ways that’s essentially what Pat is doing with regards to NCAA coaching experience. I think his basketball background is more than enough to coach at a high major in college.You can disagree that it doesn’t matter if the individual has more responsibility if you’d like, but I was more making the point that Pat got consideration because of his qualifications and just because of his relationships. That’s how the real world works. A relationship can get your foot in the door but it’s upto you to seize the opportunity. Even in cases where people are hired with no connections in general, there is likely a candidate with connections that they beat out. But yeah, point taken we’re splitting hairs at this point.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
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Post by LCPolo18 on Mar 31, 2019 14:00:46 GMT -5
So then did you read the rest of my response? It’s essentially an apprentice position that doesn’t require experience. Yes, he probably wouldn’t have gotten the job if he wasn’t a former player, but it’s not a job that has a huge bearing on the program. Like I said, he’s not an assistant coach, which would be a bigger deal if he didn’t have experience. Yes, but my point bearing on the program or not, nepotism is nepotism. I get that Wallace is getting his foot in the door and in some ways that’s essentially what Pat is doing with regards to NCAA coaching experience. I think his basketball background is more than enough to coach at a high major in college.You can disagree that it doesn’t matter if the individual has more responsibility if you’d like, but I was more making the point that Pat got consideration because of his qualifications and just because of his relationships. That’s how the real world works. A relationship can get your foot in the door but it’s upto you to seize the opportunity. Even in cases where people are hired with no connections in general, there is likely a candidate with connections that they beat out. But yeah, point taken we’re splitting hairs at this point. Your original question was asking why people aren’t up in arms about Wallace. My point is that it’s the equivalent of hiring a first year compared to hiring the CEO. Still waiting to hear about what I wrote that wasn’t factual. Listen, I personally don’t care how or why Ewing was hired. I was staying out of the argument until you brought up the Wallace comparison. If people don’t like that he was hired, fine. But he’s the coach now so everyone should rally behind him for the good of the program.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,386
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Post by drquigley on Mar 31, 2019 14:17:19 GMT -5
Yes, but my point bearing on the program or not, nepotism is nepotism. I get that Wallace is getting his foot in the door and in some ways that’s essentially what Pat is doing with regards to NCAA coaching experience. I think his basketball background is more than enough to coach at a high major in college.You can disagree that it doesn’t matter if the individual has more responsibility if you’d like, but I was more making the point that Pat got consideration because of his qualifications and just because of his relationships. That’s how the real world works. A relationship can get your foot in the door but it’s upto you to seize the opportunity. Even in cases where people are hired with no connections in general, there is likely a candidate with connections that they beat out. But yeah, point taken we’re splitting hairs at this point. You’re original question was asking why people aren’t up in arms about Wallace. My point is that it’s the equivalent of hiring a first year compared to hiring the CEO. Still waiting to hear about what I wrote that wasn’t factual. Listen, I personally don’t care how or why Ewing was hired. I was staying out of the argument until you brought up the Wallace comparison. If people don’t like that he was hired, fine. But he’s the coach now so everyone should rally behind him for the good of the program. I agree that obsessing over why or how PE was hired is a waste of time. But I really hate that "he's our coach now and everyone should rally behind him". Never stop critically thinking. If the Hoyas bomb next year we have to be willing to look hard at PE.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 31, 2019 14:34:19 GMT -5
So you want to get rid of Patrick? Not to speak for Smokey but I think what he’s saying is that he doesn’t want Gtown basketball to be beholden to Pops forever... We are all eternally grateful for what he has done for the program but he shouldn’t be a big factor in decision making any longer imo... Having said that I’m on board for giving PE time to right the ship... My question was asked because that was not what he said. He responded to a post about those who want to get rid of the Thompsons and anything associated with the Thompsons; his response was "I agree 100%". So it appeared he was saying he wanted to get rid of Ewing. But I was asking for clarification. I do agree that the program has to have an objective view going forward. I think Patrick makes for a good transition; of course he does have a long connection with JT Jr., but he also has coaching experience and credentials. Hopefully those dominate any future coaching search - but hopefully it is many years before we need those considerations.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
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Post by LCPolo18 on Mar 31, 2019 15:12:28 GMT -5
You’re original question was asking why people aren’t up in arms about Wallace. My point is that it’s the equivalent of hiring a first year compared to hiring the CEO. Still waiting to hear about what I wrote that wasn’t factual. Listen, I personally don’t care how or why Ewing was hired. I was staying out of the argument until you brought up the Wallace comparison. If people don’t like that he was hired, fine. But he’s the coach now so everyone should rally behind him for the good of the program. I agree that obsessing over why or how PE was hired is a waste of time. But I really hate that "he's our coach now and everyone should rally behind him". Never stop critically thinking. If the Hoyas bomb next year we have to be willing to look hard at PE. Oh I totally agree people can be critical of Ewing as a coach. I just don’t think it’s productive to keep rehashing 2017.
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justsaying
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 709
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Post by justsaying on Mar 31, 2019 19:32:47 GMT -5
Just to be clear; some are saying Pat does not deserve a fair shake because of who he played for and with? Last time i observed Coach Ew is doing the coaching. Why this constant convo about what was is as much about personal conceived notions as much as it about about what Jr. should and should not be. With such notions there will not be a fair shake from those will these notions being the premise of their fan support and other fans will just have endure this opossum with every single loss until the very next win. Who stated in any way that PE does not deserve a fair shot because he played for JT2? Much more often than not these conversations are started by Thompson defenders, not his critics. This very conversation is an example of it... Those defender, yes and possible understandable. Thread "2019 Big East Off-Season Discussion" More so 2019, not "2017". Critiquing 2019 no problem. Complaining 2017 not getting the point.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
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Post by hoya9797 on Mar 31, 2019 22:42:22 GMT -5
I wish they’d never hired him or at least had actually conducted a real search before deciding on him. When it’s time to replace him, I hope they move on from the Thompson family tree. Why though? Who do you think is more qualified that was available? Is there someone else you preferred? Do you not like having someone with 30+ years of basketball experience at the highest level? Methinks you suffer from big man coaching bias, or some other bias that I won’t even go into. I hope it turns out great. From what I’ve seen thus far, it does not look like his exprenice is translating into a very good college coach. I have no idea who else they could have hired but there is no doubt that the school did not search around and hired him entirely becuase of his relationship with the school. This is bad and I think will not work. I do not feel this way because I do not like tall or black people. What I like is a thorough search that results in hiring the best possible candidate.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 31, 2019 22:49:18 GMT -5
Why though? Who do you think is more qualified that was available? Is there someone else you preferred? Do you not like having someone with 30+ years of basketball experience at the highest level? Methinks you suffer from big man coaching bias, or some other bias that I won’t even go into. I hope it turns out great. From what I’ve seen thus far, it does not look like his exprenice is translating into a very good college coach. I have no idea who else they could have hired but there is no doubt that the school did not search around and hired him entirely becuase of his relationship with the school. This is bad and I think will not work. I do not feel this way because I do not like tall or black people. What I like is a thorough search that results in hiring the best possible candidate. You are either intentionally or irrationally dense if you truly believe they hired him "entirely because of his relationship with the school". While it was absolutely a significant factor, he also had 15 years of experience in the NBA, and has been lauded for his hard work and his coaching abilities by everyone he has worked under. I would have preferred a broader search as well, but also recognize that even with a broader search Patrick could have been the choice.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Apr 1, 2019 7:26:10 GMT -5
Why though? Who do you think is more qualified that was available? Is there someone else you preferred? Do you not like having someone with 30+ years of basketball experience at the highest level? Methinks you suffer from big man coaching bias, or some other bias that I won’t even go into. I hope it turns out great. From what I’ve seen thus far, it does not look like his exprenice is translating into a very good college coach. I have no idea who else they could have hired but there is no doubt that the school did not search around and hired him entirely becuase of his relationship with the school. This is bad and I think will not work. I do not feel this way because I do not like tall or black people. What I like is a thorough search that results in hiring the best possible candidate. Understandable, but I’m confused about how you came to those conclusions about the reasons he was hired and the extent to which they explored their options. Were you involved in the process?
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Apr 1, 2019 8:32:05 GMT -5
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