EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 21, 2019 22:55:13 GMT -5
Everyone keeps saying we need a shooter... we had 2 of them this year (Greg and Blair) and they were both worthless. Shooters that can't create their own shot (something Greg and Blair couldn't do) are fairly useless on this team. Our offense consisted of force feeding Jessie who almost never passed out of the double team to the open shooter, or letting James/Mac go one on one where they will either force their own contested 3, or drive looking to score, and in the rare occasions they passed, it was usually to an interior guy, almost never a kick out for 3. Maybe Yurt's a better, more willing passer out of the double team, and maybe James/Mac will get better at finding open shooters on drive and kicks, but if it's anything like this year, a 3 point shooting specialist next year will simply be Greg 2.0. The good news is the defense should be drastically improved. Center is the most important defensive position in basketball and was by far our weakest, both the starter and backup. Yurt and Wahab could be average and we would still be significantly improved there. The Alexander kid should be a huge upgrade defensively over Greg, so that's 3 upgrades there. If the freshmen 3 can make even minimal improvements, then we're pretty much better defensively at every position. So you don't think the program needs additional shooters next season?
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s4hoyas
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Post by s4hoyas on Mar 21, 2019 23:16:22 GMT -5
Just watch the games...the teams that make 3s win...gotta have a big guard who can make 3s and be a complete player as well...
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Post by cgallstar02 on Mar 21, 2019 23:21:52 GMT -5
Everyone keeps saying we need a shooter... we had 2 of them this year (Greg and Blair) and they were both worthless. Shooters that can't create their own shot (something Greg and Blair couldn't do) are fairly useless on this team. Our offense consisted of force feeding Jessie who almost never passed out of the double team to the open shooter, or letting James/Mac go one on one where they will either force their own contested 3, or drive looking to score, and in the rare occasions they passed, it was usually to an interior guy, almost never a kick out for 3. Maybe Yurt's a better, more willing passer out of the double team, and maybe James/Mac will get better at finding open shooters on drive and kicks, but if it's anything like this year, a 3 point shooting specialist next year will simply be Greg 2.0. The good news is the defense should be drastically improved. Center is the most important defensive position in basketball and was by far our weakest, both the starter and backup. Yurt and Wahab could be average and we would still be significantly improved there. The Alexander kid should be a huge upgrade defensively over Greg, so that's 3 upgrades there. If the freshmen 3 can make even minimal improvements, then we're pretty much better defensively at every position. So you don't think the program needs additional shooters next season? Not if we continue to play how we did this year. Like I said, I believe Greg was the best pure shooter on the team this year, but it's pretty worthless when guys are unable to find him for open looks and he ends up trying to create his own shot, something he's not really capable of. He ends up being a negative on the floor. Just finished watching the Wofford game...the Fletcher Magee kid had 24 pts, all 7 fgs he hit were threes, he had 0 assists and 0 rebounds and he is not a good defender. He can literally only do one thing... shoot 3's, in spite of that he was still the best player on the floor. Why? Because his teammates and coaching staff make getting him the ball where he'll be successful a priority. Again our offense has one guy capable of drawing a double in the post, that guy rarely passed to the open man out of the double. We had 2 guards capable of getting to the paint and drawing the defense in, those 2 guards rarely kicked it out to the open shooter. So if the good shooter can't do much else but shoot, no I see no reason for them to be here. If they can defend or create their own shot, then sure, but a shooting specialist like Greg/Blair, no thanks.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Mar 21, 2019 23:30:25 GMT -5
So you don't think the program needs additional shooters next season? Just finished watching the Wofford game...the Fletcher Magee kid had 24 pts, all 7 fgs he hit were threes, he had 0 assists and 0 rebounds and he is not a good defender. He can literally only do one thing... shoot 3's, in spite of that he was still the best player on the floor. Why? Because his teammates and coaching staff make getting him the ball where he'll be successful a priority. To me, it looked as if the Wofford guards this game all created excellently. Extra passes for open looks and then Fletcher Magee being Fletcher Magee and hitting ridiculous threes. 24pts on 14 shots is incredibly efficient. Georgetown just doesn't get a shooter like a Magee, and we may not need one. We need capable shooters but not someone as good as Fletcher. Blair can be that guy, he's quick, not afraid to shoot, good release and it's a quick release too. He's a capable defender and is a guy I want to see get more PT. Fletcher's role is to shoot and that's it. He's an alright defender but is the best shooter in the game right now and by a wide margin. If Washington doesn't play, they can beat UK too. I really want to see Blair get more PT though, he's a better player than he's being represented as.
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Post by cgallstar02 on Mar 21, 2019 23:45:28 GMT -5
Just finished watching the Wofford game...the Fletcher Magee kid had 24 pts, all 7 fgs he hit were threes, he had 0 assists and 0 rebounds and he is not a good defender. He can literally only do one thing... shoot 3's, in spite of that he was still the best player on the floor. Why? Because his teammates and coaching staff make getting him the ball where he'll be successful a priority. To me, it looked as if the Wofford guards this game all created excellently. Extra passes for open looks and then Fletcher Magee being Fletcher Magee and hitting ridiculous threes. 24pts on 14 shots is incredibly efficient. Georgetown just doesn't get a shooter like a Magee, and we may not need one. We need capable shooters but not someone as good as Fletcher. Blair can be that guy, he's quick, not afraid to shoot, good release and it's a quick release too. He's a capable defender and is a guy I want to see get more PT. Fletcher's role is to shoot and that's it. He's an alright defender but is the best shooter in the game right now and by a wide margin. If Washington doesn't play, they can beat UK too. I really want to see Blair get more PT though, he's a better player than he's being represented as. I agree with you on Blair, I felt he should've gotten Greg's minutes for the last 10 or 12 games of the season. Better defender, forces the issue less, and is actually here next year. My original point was only that adding another shooting specialist has little value on a team that doesn't utilize their one strength, yet has to deal with all of their limitations. Maybe Yurt's a great and willing passer out of the double team, and Maybe Mac/James make major strides in their drive and kick games and Blair or some other specialist will end up being just what the team needed. I was just basing my assessment off what I saw this year.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Mar 21, 2019 23:58:56 GMT -5
The player with the best on/off point per possession differential this year was Greg for what it is worth. Pat chose to go in a different direction. This team needed more shooters this year but it wasn't complete devoid of them. The shots just weren't always taken by the best guys.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Mar 22, 2019 0:01:34 GMT -5
I don't think every player on the team necessarily needs to be able to create their own shot. We can do fine with good spot up shooters, so long as they know the spots to get set, and the rest of the team knows how to find them.
For all of Jessie's offensive skill, he was not a particularly good passer. Nor were James and Mac very good at doing this early on--but James in particular improved significantly in finding open teammates on the perimeter (often Jessie in pick and roll sets). I am confident that James will continue to improve in the PnR and drive and kick; and I think Mac will too. I haven't seen much of Yurt, but hopefully he is a bit more intelligent a passer from the post as well.
This team has the potential to be very special next year. No doubt, there was much to be frustrated about this year--but unlike some of the Debbie Downers, I do feel like the freshmen will improve/develop in the off season, and that the pieces we are adding will be net positives (losing Kaleb, Mourning, Mal and Jessie--but adding Galen, Yurt and the 3 headed intimidation-beast).
Even if the BE is improved next year (and I hope it is), I still see the Hoyas competing at the top, as Ewing adds defensive grit and consistency to the Hoyas' arsenal.
If this doesn't happen, I'll change my tune. But for now I think that top 3 BE and 1-2 wins in the NCAA tournament is firmly in the realm of the possible for your 2019-20 Hoyas.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Mar 22, 2019 6:55:00 GMT -5
We will know a lot more about where we stack in terms of big east play in a month or two once the tournaments have ended and players have made their decisions on the NBA. By then, many of the grad transfers and other transfers will have likely landed elsewhere. My goal for next season is for this team to meaningfully contend for an NCAA Tournament berth. This year we never seemed in contention to me. The strength of schedule just wasn't there, and we didn't have enough wins to really tip the scale. The league also wasn't good enough to carry us this year. That said, it might well be next year. I do thin other teams will make a step forward next year, but that doesn't necessarily hurt us. An improved Big East next year would lift all boats. We might well make the field even without improving or improving much in the win-loss record. That remains to be seen. Right now, the staff should have several priorities that will affect next season. First, they have to keep the team together and bought-in. No transfers, lots of hard work in the off season improving their games. Fortunately we do have a lot of returning players, so they should head into the off season knowing what they need to do. Second, we have to improve our scheduling. That has already taken a nice step forward with some big names added, but we have to get better at picking mid major opponents that don't drag down our metrics. We don't have to schedule like JTIII did in his final years, but we need to avoid playing 2-5 of the worst 20-30 teams in the country. Third, I hope we continue to explore the recruiting trail. Obviously Anthony is still out there unsigned, and there will likely be dozens of grad transfers out there again. We should never pass on a smart opportunity to add depth and make the team better. If we do those things, I think we can contend for the Tournament next year, and we would likely be in the top half of the league. No guarantees, though. Everyone will be working hard. Even so, I like the overall trajectory of this team over the last two years. I don't think we will even know then. The proof can be if next year the team can put distance between themselves and opponents. This year we really couldn't against almost everyone. Every game was a dogfight. If next year early on we see our team taking care of business early, that will be the only real pre-big east barometer of how things will play out.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 22, 2019 7:08:29 GMT -5
I’d like to see if Carter could be our next shooter. I see him as a Derrickson type player. He has a smooth stroke and size.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 22, 2019 7:42:55 GMT -5
The player with the best on/off point per possession differential this year was Greg for what it is worth. Pat chose to go in a different direction. This team needed more shooters this year but it wasn't complete devoid of them. The shots just weren't always taken by the best guys. He could have been better if Pat had drawn up a play for him that would have set Greg up for a set shot instead of one coming around a screen. Plus, the ball handlers needed to pass it to him for the set shot. Jessie, Trey and Mac didn’t pass it out to him as necessary. A 39% 3-pt shooter needed to shoot more rather than Mac or Trey, and that’s on Pat and his offense, which is looking like a get-your-own half-court offense, instead of the quick-passing offenses we see from successful college teams like Nova and... Harvard.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 22, 2019 9:14:49 GMT -5
The player with the best on/off point per possession differential this year was Greg for what it is worth. Pat chose to go in a different direction. This team needed more shooters this year but it wasn't complete devoid of them. The shots just weren't always taken by the best guys. He could have been better if Pat had drawn up a play for him that would have set Greg up for a set shot instead of one coming around a screen. Plus, the ball handlers needed to pass it to him for the set shot. Jessie, Trey and Mac didn’t pass it out to him as necessary. A 39% 3-pt shooter needed to shoot more rather than Mac or Trey, and that’s on Pat and his offense, which is looking like a get-your-own half-court offense, instead of the quick-passing offenses we see from successful college teams like Nova and... Harvard. He was a ball-mover. Which differentiated him from virtually everyone else on the roster (save Jagan). As the year went on, it looked like he got more comfortable and that, ironically, resulted in somewhat more rushed shots and forced passes. Id be interested to know if our efficiencies were marginally worse with him later in the year. It seemed like Pat went with him and made a quick call on whether he was effective that given game and quickly moved on. Indeed, he did that with lots of guys. I don't know that our offense is truly "get your own" but it is dribble drive oriented. As such, shooters are reliant largely on getting kickouts. Especially for the set shots you're describing. Not something either of our lead guards (particularly Mac) is great at yet. The Creighton/Harvard/Villanova crisp ball movement for threes relies on a guy being able to beat his man and then quickly kicking to someone who then makes a quick decision himself to drive, kick or shoot. And so on. At root, it requires very quick decisions and absolute trust. Very hard to get all that in new players and lineups.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 22, 2019 9:24:56 GMT -5
He was a ball-mover. Which differentiated him from virtually everyone else on the roster (save Jagan). As the year went on, it looked like he got more comfortable and that, ironically, resulted in somewhat more rushed shots and forced passes. Id be interested to know if our efficiencies were marginally worse with him later in the year. It seemed like Pat went with him and made a quick call on whether he was effective that given game and quickly moved on. Indeed, he did that with lots of guys. I don't know that our offense is truly "get your own" but it is dribble drive oriented. As such, shooters are reliant largely on getting kickouts. Especially for the set shots you're describing. Not something either of our lead guards (particularly Mac) is great at yet. The Creighton/Harvard/Villanova crisp ball movement for threes relies on a guy being able to beat his man and then quickly kicking to someone who then makes a quick decision himself to drive, kick or shoot. And so on. At root, it requires very quick decisions and absolute trust. Very hard to get all that in new players and lineups. Ball mover? I thought he was recruited to be a sniper, which we didn’t have on the roster. I also feel/see that Pat has a short leash for certain players and Greg was one. I agree with the lack of kick-outs and that has to be a point of emphasis for the off-season to get Omer and Josh shots at the top of the arc or someone in the corner. We have the players to beat their defenders in Mac, James and now Galen.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 22, 2019 9:50:31 GMT -5
For unknown reasons, I think everyone who is down on next season is seriously underselling the upgrade Yurtseven will be at the 5 next season. He is a much more complete player at the position, and while he may not "explode" for 27-32 points in a game like Govan, he will be responsible for so many more points with his rebounding, defense and passing.
He was ranked the #1 transfer on the market last year and we got him! He is a former 5 star recruit and has the production to back it up at a high major. Most fanbases would be fired up and giving Ewing major props for this - but on here it is like he does not exist?
Not sure what is holding people back from fully embracing him? Perhaps the possibility he may choose to go pro? But, you have to think he made some sort of commitment to Ewing and just invested a year as a transfer, it would be strange to jump ship now, knowing you have a nice nucleus coming back.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 22, 2019 9:56:57 GMT -5
He was a ball-mover. Which differentiated him from virtually everyone else on the roster (save Jagan). As the year went on, it looked like he got more comfortable and that, ironically, resulted in somewhat more rushed shots and forced passes. Id be interested to know if our efficiencies were marginally worse with him later in the year. It seemed like Pat went with him and made a quick call on whether he was effective that given game and quickly moved on. Indeed, he did that with lots of guys. I don't know that our offense is truly "get your own" but it is dribble drive oriented. As such, shooters are reliant largely on getting kickouts. Especially for the set shots you're describing. Not something either of our lead guards (particularly Mac) is great at yet. The Creighton/Harvard/Villanova crisp ball movement for threes relies on a guy being able to beat his man and then quickly kicking to someone who then makes a quick decision himself to drive, kick or shoot. And so on. At root, it requires very quick decisions and absolute trust. Very hard to get all that in new players and lineups. Ball mover? I thought he was recruited to be a sniper, which we didn’t have on the roster. I also feel/see that Pat has a short leash for certain players and Greg was one. I agree with the lack of kick-outs and that has to be a point of emphasis for the off-season to get Omer and Josh shots at the top of the arc or someone in the corner. We have the players to beat their defenders in Mac, James and now Galen. He was recruited as a sniper and was a 39% or so career guy. He came in and shot that percentage playing at a higher level. He wasn't JJ Redick but he was pretty darned good at it. He so showed an aptitude for knowing where the ball should move if he wasn't wide open and getting it there quickly. That's what I mean by ball mover and it's a compliment. Ideally all of our guys would be ball movers. Even a James or Mac can be by making their moves to the hoop quickly or rotating the ball quickly. And by kicking if the D collapses. If we are going to have a dribble drive offense, it's dependant on that ultimately. I think Pat had a short leash for virtually everyone. I wish he had a shorter one for Trey but I don't think he felt he had another viable option for backup minutes there.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 22, 2019 9:59:30 GMT -5
For unknown reasons, I think everyone who is down on next season is seriously underselling the upgrade Yurtseven will be at the 5 next season. He is a much more complete player at the position, and while he may not "explode" for 27-32 points in a game like Govan, he will be responsible for so many more points with his rebounding, defense and passing. He was ranked the #1 transfer on the market last year and we got him! He is a former 5 star recruit and has the production to back it up at a high major. Most fanbases would be fired up and giving Ewing major props for this - but on here it is like he does not exist? Not sure what is holding people back from fully embracing him? Perhaps the possibility he may choose to go pro? But, you have to think he made some sort of commitment to Ewing and just invested a year as a transfer, it would be strange to jump ship now, knowing you have a nice nucleus coming back. I think it's just hard to know what we will get for certain given that he has never played in a Georgetown uniform. The concern about his leaving is not unreasonable....he has thought about the NBA previously and if he made any promise to Pat it's surely not binding.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 22, 2019 10:57:20 GMT -5
For unknown reasons, I think everyone who is down on next season is seriously underselling the upgrade Yurtseven will be at the 5 next season. He is a much more complete player at the position, and while he may not "explode" for 27-32 points in a game like Govan, he will be responsible for so many more points with his rebounding, defense and passing. You're underselling Omer. He's already done that as a soph in the ACC: www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/omer-yurtseven-1/gamelog/2018/
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on Mar 22, 2019 11:40:32 GMT -5
I'd take 10-8 right now. It's conceivable that Ponds, Powell and Howard all come back. Outside of the Nova guys, Govan, Strus, Diallo and Clark, there were few impact seniors. The Big East will be back next season. Instead of 4 NCAA bids I think it reverts back to the 6 we got in 2018. (Big East got 7 in 2017)
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 22, 2019 12:03:16 GMT -5
I'd take 10-8 right now. It's conceivable that Ponds, Powell and Howard all come back. Outside of the Nova guys, Govan, Strus, Diallo and Clark, there were few impact seniors. The Big East will be back next season. Instead of 4 NCAA bids I think it reverts back to the 6 we got in 2018. (Big East got 7 in 2017) BE teams will need to set the tone in the OOC by winning early and often, esp. those OOC tournaments.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 22, 2019 12:16:42 GMT -5
I don’t think anyone thinks we’ll be worse next year. Any out there?
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 22, 2019 12:21:21 GMT -5
For unknown reasons, I think everyone who is down on next season is seriously underselling the upgrade Yurtseven will be at the 5 next season. He is a much more complete player at the position, and while he may not "explode" for 27-32 points in a game like Govan, he will be responsible for so many more points with his rebounding, defense and passing. He was ranked the #1 transfer on the market last year and we got him! He is a former 5 star recruit and has the production to back it up at a high major. Most fanbases would be fired up and giving Ewing major props for this - but on here it is like he does not exist? Not sure what is holding people back from fully embracing him? Perhaps the possibility he may choose to go pro? But, you have to think he made some sort of commitment to Ewing and just invested a year as a transfer, it would be strange to jump ship now, knowing you have a nice nucleus coming back. I think it's just hard to know what we will get for certain given that he has never played in a Georgetown uniform. The concern about his leaving is not unreasonable....he has thought about the NBA previously and if he made any promise to Pat it's surely not binding. That pro possibility was my guess. I would be the first one to criticize Ewing relentlessly if Yurtseven does not at least reproduce what he was able to do in the ACC. Trying to get some positive thinking on this board to offset so much skepticism.
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