PE as a recruiter

[jwp91]

I was asking myself about Ewing’s recruiting so far and how I would grade it?

It is really interesting question

On the one hand, he has failed to land any traditional blue chip recruits. We have made a bunch of final lists for interesting prospects. I am talking about top 50 or top 25 guys. We have had nothing land so far. Coach has said himself that teams are only as good as the players and that college basketball is all about recruiting.

So as a recruiter, so far he has performed below what I thought a hall-of-famer with his credentials could do.

As a talent evaluator on the other hand, he has been incredible. Last year, two of the players he got through the late recruiting/decommitment period were conference freshman 1st team all conference. This year it looks like 3 players will make the 1st team for freshman. Ewing really seems to have an eye for talent and how he can put it together as a team. He has also been early to identify players who would later have massive recruiting demand.

So far I would give PE an ‘A’ for talent evaluation and an ‘incomplete’ on the recruiting side.

I am hopeful that a trip to the NCAAs this year will give him the coaching credibility to add to his media presence and reputation to start landing higher caliber elite players that will put us back into the Top 10 of the sport.

[Deleted]

Hall of famer means very little in recruiting. PT and success of similar players are way above all considerations generally speaking. Otto's success gets you Copeland and White. Green's success gets you Dajuan etc...

I think he's doing fine but 2020 and 2021 are where you would like to see them really make a mark. When Pat first got hired nobody knew his coaching or playing style. He also didn't have the AAU relationships. This is the first class they have been able to recruit as underclassman, and the mystery of what type of coach Pat will be is less of a mystery now.

[wponds]

Yeah, I think as far as recruiting, we'll have to wait and see on these next two classes (20 and 21). Had to scramble for whatever he could get with the 2017 class and 2018 to some extent bc most Fall commitments were still before he coached a game. I think he did a great job given the performance of the team, state of the program, etc. 2019 also was/is hard bc there were still a lot of unknowns. Now, he actually has something to sell and visual proof to back it up.

So far, talent evaluation has been amazing. Gives me a lot of confidence in which players he chooses to go after and which he doesn't

[Ranch Dressing]

This is a pretty easy analysis for me.

He's been simply an awesome recruiter so far, especially given the condition of the program when he took over.

[NCHoya]

Ewing's talent evaluation has been spot on. He knows what he wants in his players and is not scared of guys that need to be coached up. In his first two classes, Ewing has likely recruited 5 first team All-BE Freshman - what more could anyone reasonably ask for? I think you also have to consider how far this program had sunk when he took over. Expecting top 50 players to be lining up to play for a losing team was not realistic.

Let's see what he can do in the spring recruiting season to add to next year's roster, but the Recruiting grade after 2 cycles is an A.

[beenaround]

Think JWP has a well thought out post and clearly PE is great at both evaluation and development...getting lesser recruits to achieve excellence and even upper class guys like Marcus and Jesse. Whether he is a great recruiter (under the circumstances) or incomplete...in my mind are actually not that different. There was no chance we'd be getting top 25 recruits...so whether he can ever get them is still unknown at this time.

[SFHoya99]

Pretty much agree with OP.

I think it is clear that he's not at the recruiting level to immediately pull in top talent. I never had that expectation and I'm okay with it, but it is also true.

He's won some battles for reasonably ranked players, though two of them, Pickett and Akinjo, were in the Spring. LeBlanc was reasonably highly rated.


The other portion is so much more important. His hit rate is extremely high -- and some of that may be lucky, but it may be real scouting skill. Add in the fact that he absolutely has a recruiting strategy to my mind. People may not completely agree with it, but he is pursuing certain types of players that fit his game.

[alleninxis]

He has already proven to have a strong eye for talent - he might have been Mac's biggest believer short of the Rutgers staff nationally. He was right, many were wrong.

His style of play is as attractive as you can have at the college level given the pace and freedom he allows.

The last missing part has been winning - and hopefully the next 2 weeks gives that a jolt. It'll be noticed.

I question how helpful his staff can ultimately be - Kirby is connected but with kids who will always be a tough pull out of the South. Waheed is an unknown it still feels and Orr...well..it was never his strong suit to begin with and I can't imagine age has helped in that regard now.

[jwp91]

Mar 5, 2019 12:10:12 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

Hall of famer means very little in recruiting. PT and success of similar players are way above all considerations generally speaking. Otto's success gets you Copeland and White. Green's success gets you Dajuan etc...

I think he's doing fine but 2020 and 2021 are where you would like to see them really make a mark. When Pat first got hired nobody knew his coaching or playing style. He also didn't have the AAU relationships. This is the first class they have been able to recruit as underclassman, and the mystery of what type of coach Pat will be is less of a mystery now.

Perhaps Hall of Famer means very little in recruiting as you say. I would think he could get into any living room in the country or on the phone with any coach in a way that Kevin Williard, Steele, or the Butler coach cannot (his name doesn’t even come to mind). Being the coach of a major college program is a big deal. Also being one of the best players of all time, national player of the year, NBA Hall of Famer is another level. In the land of the Knicks fans, he should be able to do pretty much as he pleases.

I thought he might be able to get a early hit out of this. I was wrong.

I am not sure it will ever be public, but I would love to hear exactly how the recruiting of Isaiah Stewart went. When did PE engage? When did PE visit? How did the conversations go? He is the type of player I would have thought PE might have had a chance of landing based on his celebrity.

[emkmd]

The 2020 class is really the first that he has been able to have a fair shake at. With the amount of time he had with 2018 and 2019 he has signed up some real and potential talent. So I’d say he has done an excellent job in recruiting so far.

[jwp91]

Mar 5, 2019 16:20:12 GMT -5 emkmd said:

The 2020 class is really the first that he has been able to have a fair shake at. With the amount of time he had with 2018 and 2019 he has signed up some real and potential talent. So I’d say he has done an excellent job in recruiting so far.

Ok. I see your point. I am concerned it includes a bit of ‘homer-ism.’

Here are some other examples with the note that Ewing was hired in April 2017

Hardaway signed James Wiseman. (Hardaway hired in 3/18)
Cream signed Anthony Edwards (Crean hired in Spring 2018)
Hopkins signed Isaiah Stewart. (Hopkins hired in March 2017)

Others have landed Top 10 talent in the same timeframe.

I am 100% satisfied with Coach Ewing. I am hopeful that he keeps Georgetown improving on the same trajectory.

[LCPolo18]

Mar 5, 2019 16:54:12 GMT -5 jwp91 said:

Mar 5, 2019 16:20:12 GMT -5 emkmd said:

The 2020 class is really the first that he has been able to have a fair shake at. With the amount of time he had with 2018 and 2019 he has signed up some real and potential talent. So I’d say he has done an excellent job in recruiting so far.

Ok. I see your point. I am concerned it includes a bit of ‘homer-ism.’

Here are some other examples with the note that Ewing was hired in April 2017

Hardaway signed James Wiseman. (Hardaway hired in 3/18)
Cream signed Anthony Edwards (Crean hired in Spring 2018)
Hopkins signed Isaiah Stewart. (Hopkins hired in March 2017)

Others have landed Top 10 talent in the same timeframe.

I am 100% satisfied with Coach Ewing. I am hopeful that he keeps Georgetown improving on the same trajectory.

Keep in mind though that:

1. Wiseman played on Hardaway's AAU team before Hardaway was hired at Memphis, and Memphis was the hometown school for Wiseman.
2. Crean coached Wade and Oladipo in college at his previous college coaching jobs, and Georgia was the hometown school for Edwards.
3. Hopkins was recruiting Stewart to Syracuse before getting hired at Washington.

This isn't meant to be excuses for why Ewing hasn't gotten top 10 talent. You could make a similar argument that he was in a unique position to get Josh LeBlanc (Darrel Owens). I'm just pointing out that those are specific situations for those coaches.

I agree with everyone else that Ewing has done a great job at talent evaluation. Even just tracking the offers he gives out (and he gives out a lot), he's often one of the first high major coaches to offer a recruit before they shoot up the rankings. Just a matter of time before he lands more players that fit his style of play.

[emkmd]

Mar 5, 2019 16:54:12 GMT -5 jwp91 said:

Mar 5, 2019 16:20:12 GMT -5 emkmd said:

The 2020 class is really the first that he has been able to have a fair shake at. With the amount of time he had with 2018 and 2019 he has signed up some real and potential talent. So I’d say he has done an excellent job in recruiting so far.

Ok. I see your point. I am concerned it includes a bit of ‘homer-ism.’

Here are some other examples with the note that Ewing was hired in April 2017

Hardaway signed James Wiseman. (Hardaway hired in 3/18)
Cream signed Anthony Edwards (Crean hired in Spring 2018)
Hopkins signed Isaiah Stewart. (Hopkins hired in March 2017)

Others have landed Top 10 talent in the same timeframe.

I am 100% satisfied with Coach Ewing. I am hopeful that he keeps Georgetown improving on the same trajectory.

For sure, favorite NBA player turned coach of my favorite team. But coaches start building relationships with players early on. That’s why in the RJ Cole thread Cole mentions Georgetown as one of the early schools that are interested.
I live in Georgia and it was a major surprise that Crean was able to get Edwards, who most thought was going to Kentucky. The player stated something about wanting to be near his family.
I think Hopkins had previously been recruiting Stewart at the cuse. Which goes along with getting in early helps.
Wiseman is from Memphis, so staying at home makes sense. Not sure what other schools were offering him, but I’m sure they are either on the naughty sneaker list, the fake classes list, or the one and done just go to class for a semester list.

[RockawayHoya]

Mar 5, 2019 14:19:08 GMT -5 alleninxis said:

He has already proven to have a strong eye for talent - he might have been Mac's biggest believer short of the Rutgers staff nationally. He was right, many were wrong.

His style of play is as attractive as you can have at the college level given the pace and freedom he allows.

The last missing part has been winning - and hopefully the next 2 weeks gives that a jolt. It'll be noticed.

I question how helpful his staff can ultimately be - Kirby is connected but with kids who will always be a tough pull out of the South. Waheed is an unknown it still feels and Orr...well..it was never his strong suit to begin with and I can't imagine age has helped in that regard now.

This. Winning these next few games will be absolutely critical in attracting talent to come here. An NCAA berth will go a long ways towards convincing kids that this program is on the upswing. A strong March could be what shows recruits that Ewing is the right guy to learn under and develop their games for the next level. A run into the tourney could be what convinces kids to decide that they could be the missing piece to something special for next year.

I hope to God it doesn't happen, but in a doomsday scenario where we drop our last 3 games here in ugly fashion and limp home with an 18-14 record and an 8-9 seed in the BE (again) that ends in a Wed. defeat and no NIT... it would be hard to convince me that we've made enough progress to be satisfied at this point in time.

It can't be overstated how important these next 2 weeks are for Pat as a recruiter.

[Deleted]

Mar 5, 2019 15:13:17 GMT -5 jwp91 said:

Mar 5, 2019 12:10:12 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

Hall of famer means very little in recruiting. PT and success of similar players are way above all considerations generally speaking. Otto's success gets you Copeland and White. Green's success gets you Dajuan etc...

I think he's doing fine but 2020 and 2021 are where you would like to see them really make a mark. When Pat first got hired nobody knew his coaching or playing style. He also didn't have the AAU relationships. This is the first class they have been able to recruit as underclassman, and the mystery of what type of coach Pat will be is less of a mystery now.

Perhaps Hall of Farmer means very little in recruiting as you say. I would think he could get into any living room in the country or on the phone with any coach in a way that Kevin Williard, Steele, or the Butler coach cannot (his name doesn’t even come to mind). Being the coach of a major college program is a big deal. Also being one of the best players of all time, national player of the year, NBA Hall of Farmer is another level. In the land of the Knicks fans, he should be able to do pretty much as he pleases.

I thought he might be able to get a early hit out of this. I was wrong.

I am not sure it will ever be public, but I would love to hear exactly how the recruiting of Isaiah Stewart went. When did PE engage? When did PE visit? How did the conversations go? He is the type of player I would have thought PE might have had a chance of landing based on his celebrity.

It's a bigger deal for the parents then recruits. It helps get you in the door, but probably not a reason why a kid would choose a school over another.

[RBHoya]

Mar 5, 2019 16:20:12 GMT -5 emkmd said:

The 2020 class is really the first that he has been able to have a fair shake at. With the amount of time he had with 2018 and 2019 he has signed up some real and potential talent. So I’d say he has done an excellent job in recruiting so far.

Not sure this is totally fair, when he took over in 2017 the recruits in the class of 2019 were just finishing up their sophomore years. He had the summer between their sophomore year and junior year to evaluate and build relationships (2017) and the summer between their junior and senior years to reel them in (2018). I suppose you could make a case that some groundwork may have been laid while they were in their freshman years, but most offers don't go out until the time frame after PE had taken over.

2019 is Patrick's second full class, and he's now about 2 years on the job. Does anyone remember where his predecessor was at the same juncture? JT3's second full class included a Top 10/unanimous All-American (Macklin) and a Top 50/borderline All-American type (Summers), plus a kid who had been ranked in the Top 30 before getting injured and falling way down the rankings (Rivers). He had also landed an early commitment from a Top 25 future All-American for what would become his 3rd full recruiting class (Freeman). He had successfully harnessed the "Georgetown is back!" buzz and turned it into multiple Top 50 recruits, and would do the same a few more times over the next couple years (Wright, Monroe, etc.).

Of course, recruiting rankings are meaningless once these guys put jerseys on at the college level, and early returns seem to indicate that Patrick has a good eye for kids who fit what he's trying to do. 3 of his 2018 recruits have outperformed their rankings IMHO, one dramatically so (Mac). I'm happy with the state of the program and think there is positive momentum to build on.

All that said, I think the 2019 class has been a pretty big disappointment so far. This is no slander of Patrick or the staff, as again I'm bullish on the direction of the program overall. But if we're being honest, it has been very underwhelming, and there's some definite goalpost moving happening among the fan base. Now people are saying 2020 is his first full class? It wasn't that long ago that many thought it'd be a layup for Patrick to pull in Jamaican kids like Stewart and Cockburn. Or that we'd have our choice of locals like Morsell or Harris. And that sooner or later we'd swoop in and land a surprise like Whitney or Anthony. Instead, we landed a couple of lightly recruited project bigs while missing on targets who should have been attainable like Ledlum or Gultekin. Adding Wahab late was positive, and we may still be able to add 1-2 more quality pieces--Patrick has had good luck in the spring thus far. But if we're honest about comparing this class to where we thought we'd be in his second full recruiting class, or even comparing to what JT3 did at the same stage, it's underwhelming. Hopeful that one or more of the 3 commits really surprises us and/or that we pull in a couple of big fish late. Otherwise, I hope things make a leap forward in the 2020 class--because if the 2020 class looks like the 2019 class (as currently constituted), I don't think it's going to suffice. The strong 2018 class can carry us a while, but eventually it catches up.

I'd also add that I share alleninxis's concerns about the make up of the staff. Nice guys all, but the jury is still very much out on the recruiting front.

And I think we can all agree that how this season finishes out will have a pretty significant impact on overall perception of the state of the program, and thus, recruiting.

[Ranch Dressing]

Mar 6, 2019 15:56:51 GMT -5 RBHoya said:

Mar 5, 2019 16:20:12 GMT -5 emkmd said:

The 2020 class is really the first that he has been able to have a fair shake at. With the amount of time he had with 2018 and 2019 he has signed up some real and potential talent. So I’d say he has done an excellent job in recruiting so far.

Not sure this is totally fair, when he took over in 2017 the recruits in the class of 2019 were just finishing up their sophomore years. He had the summer between their sophomore year and junior year to evaluate and build relationships (2017) and the summer between their junior and senior years to reel them in (2018). I suppose you could make a case that some groundwork may have been laid while they were in their freshman years, but most offers don't go out until the time frame after PE had taken over.

2019 is Patrick's second full class, and he's now about 2 years on the job. Does anyone remember where his predecessor was at the same juncture? JT3's second full class included a Top 10/unanimous All-American (Macklin) and a Top 50/borderline All-American type (Summers), plus a kid who had been ranked in the Top 30 before getting injured and falling way down the rankings (Rivers). He had also landed an early commitment from a Top 25 future All-American for what would become his 3rd full recruiting class (Freeman). He had successfully harnessed the "Georgetown is back!" buzz and turned it into multiple Top 50 recruits, and would do the same a few more times over the next couple years (Wright, Monroe, etc.).

Of course, recruiting rankings are meaningless once these guys put jerseys on at the college level, and early returns seem to indicate that Patrick has a good eye for kids who fit what he's trying to do. 3 of his 2018 recruits have outperformed their rankings IMHO, one dramatically so (Mac). I'm happy with the state of the program and think there is positive momentum to build on.

All that said, I think the 2019 class has been a pretty big disappointment so far. This is no slander of Patrick or the staff, as again I'm bullish on the direction of the program overall. But if we're being honest, it has been very underwhelming, and there's some definite goalpost moving happening among the fan base. Now people are saying 2020 is his first full class? It wasn't that long ago that many thought it'd be a layup for Patrick to pull in Jamaican kids like Stewart and Cockburn. Or that we'd have our choice of locals like Morsell or Harris. And that sooner or later we'd swoop in and land a surprise like Whitney or Anthony. Instead, we landed a couple of lightly recruited project bigs while missing on targets who should have been attainable like Ledlum or Gultekin. Adding Wahab late was positive, and we may still be able to add 1-2 more quality pieces--Patrick has had good luck in the spring thus far. But if we're honest about comparing this class to where we thought we'd be in his second full recruiting class, or even comparing to what JT3 did at the same stage, it's underwhelming. Hopeful that one or more of the 3 commits really surprises us and/or that we pull in a couple of big fish late. Otherwise, I hope things make a leap forward in the 2020 class--because if the 2020 class looks like the 2019 class (as currently constituted), I don't think it's going to suffice. The strong 2018 class can carry us a while, but eventually it catches up.

I'd also add that I share alleninxis's concerns about the make up of the staff. Nice guys all, but the jury is still very much out on the recruiting front.

And I think we can all agree that how this season finishes out will have a pretty significant impact on overall perception of the state of the program, and thus, recruiting.

I would refrain from judging class of 2019. It’s not over yet and we are in the hunt with some serious talent.

How would you feel, for example, if we land JUCO Galen Alexander, one of Myron/Shannon and lock up a 2020 PG like RG Davis?

If we start next year with just the 3 bigs, then I would agree that the class disappointed on paper.

[NCHoya]

I wish III, did like his predecessor Esherick, and left Ewing two future NBA first round picks like Hibbert and Green to build around. Instead, Ewing was left to hopelessly chase Tremont Waters and given a roster gutted by transfers. Ewing has picked up the pieces well. I give him all the credit for this terrific current freshman class, but I give him no pass on the 2019 class. But, it is not complete yet. Let's see what happens.

[smokeyjack]

You have to be a little disappointed by Pat’s inability to attract bluechippers thus far. Last year’s class was marvelous re to evals, but I have been shocked (yes, completely stunned) that PE hasn’t locked up a 5 star yet.

[RBHoya]

Mar 6, 2019 16:11:19 GMT -5 Ranch Dressing said:

Mar 6, 2019 15:56:51 GMT -5 RBHoya said:

Not sure this is totally fair, when he took over in 2017 the recruits in the class of 2019 were just finishing up their sophomore years. He had the summer between their sophomore year and junior year to evaluate and build relationships (2017) and the summer between their junior and senior years to reel them in (2018). I suppose you could make a case that some groundwork may have been laid while they were in their freshman years, but most offers don't go out until the time frame after PE had taken over.

2019 is Patrick's second full class, and he's now about 2 years on the job. Does anyone remember where his predecessor was at the same juncture? JT3's second full class included a Top 10/unanimous All-American (Macklin) and a Top 50/borderline All-American type (Summers), plus a kid who had been ranked in the Top 30 before getting injured and falling way down the rankings (Rivers). He had also landed an early commitment from a Top 25 future All-American for what would become his 3rd full recruiting class (Freeman). He had successfully harnessed the "Georgetown is back!" buzz and turned it into multiple Top 50 recruits, and would do the same a few more times over the next couple years (Wright, Monroe, etc.).

Of course, recruiting rankings are meaningless once these guys put jerseys on at the college level, and early returns seem to indicate that Patrick has a good eye for kids who fit what he's trying to do. 3 of his 2018 recruits have outperformed their rankings IMHO, one dramatically so (Mac). I'm happy with the state of the program and think there is positive momentum to build on.

All that said, I think the 2019 class has been a pretty big disappointment so far. This is no slander of Patrick or the staff, as again I'm bullish on the direction of the program overall. But if we're being honest, it has been very underwhelming, and there's some definite goalpost moving happening among the fan base. Now people are saying 2020 is his first full class? It wasn't that long ago that many thought it'd be a layup for Patrick to pull in Jamaican kids like Stewart and Cockburn. Or that we'd have our choice of locals like Morsell or Harris. And that sooner or later we'd swoop in and land a surprise like Whitney or Anthony. Instead, we landed a couple of lightly recruited project bigs while missing on targets who should have been attainable like Ledlum or Gultekin. Adding Wahab late was positive, and we may still be able to add 1-2 more quality pieces--Patrick has had good luck in the spring thus far. But if we're honest about comparing this class to where we thought we'd be in his second full recruiting class, or even comparing to what JT3 did at the same stage, it's underwhelming. Hopeful that one or more of the 3 commits really surprises us and/or that we pull in a couple of big fish late. Otherwise, I hope things make a leap forward in the 2020 class--because if the 2020 class looks like the 2019 class (as currently constituted), I don't think it's going to suffice. The strong 2018 class can carry us a while, but eventually it catches up.

I'd also add that I share alleninxis's concerns about the make up of the staff. Nice guys all, but the jury is still very much out on the recruiting front.

And I think we can all agree that how this season finishes out will have a pretty significant impact on overall perception of the state of the program, and thus, recruiting.

I would refrain from judging class of 2019. It’s not over yet and we are in the hunt with some serious talent.

How would you feel, for example, if we land JUCO Galen Alexander, one of Myron/Shannon and lock up a 2020 PG like RG Davis?

If we start next year with just the 3 bigs, then I would agree that the class disappointed on paper.

No arguments on this. There is still time for it to improve, surely. Especially if we have a nice close to the season, we could be well-positioned to make an impact when the coaching carousel starts up. I am just projecting into the future given what we know at this moment, but if we get one or two other big fish before the summer it's of course a totally different story.