bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,508
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 14, 2019 8:53:35 GMT -5
Just a poor effort all around. No excuses. Ewing postgame quotes are dead on and glad he said what he said. I'd normally say let's move on, but move on to what? Villanova is not going to be fun. What a letdown the last two games have been after getting to 5-5 in conference. Seemed like the Hoyas did not understand the sense of urgency needed at this point of the season as everyone is trying to position themselves for post season tournaments. Seton Hall came out with more energy and a sense of purpose and imposed their will on the game early and the Hoyas could just never get back into the game. I did think that the effort/fight of the Hoyas improved to a large degree at the end of the first half and for most of the second half, but at that point they were already down about 20 and Seton Hall was playing with great confidence and momentum. Even when the energy and effort picked up it seemed like Seton Hall still came up with all of the 50/50 balls and sometime that is just the way it goes when you let a team get up on you early. The Powell kid can really score the ball and once he got going and gained some confidence it was going to be tough to slow him down. I thought Jagan worked hard defending him in the second half and was contesting all of this outside shots, but at that point he was feeling it and was making tough shots. The upper classmen on this team have been beaten down over the last few years and almost look like they expect to lose tough games now and the young guys don't seem to understand that the level of intensity and sense of purpose needs to pick up this time of year. Hopefully this is part of the growing process and they come out and show they know what is required in the next few games.
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HoyaDr
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 616
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Post by HoyaDr on Feb 14, 2019 8:59:28 GMT -5
It's just been a all around downturn in the play--by almost everyone. Missing FTs at crucial times, not getting the loose ball, missing a defensive assignment, forcing a shot, poor rebounding and streaky shooting. Hard to assign blame to any one player when it all just kind of snowballs. We know that they are better than this, but still looking for that leader who wants push this team through these types of performances. Always expected it to be Mosley, but his game is too limited. Completely agree. This a collective team failure. And I hate to be so negative but I don't see any improvement next year. We have no reinforcements coming in as far guards or wings. We need players that can defend, rebound, and drive to the hoop. It's maddening seeing opposing players drive and finish so easily and wondering why we can't do that. Greg had some success with driving and finishing last night but it was at a point in the game where their defense softened. This is so frustrating.
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
Posts: 1,329
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Feb 14, 2019 9:01:46 GMT -5
Guess I would have rather played the walk ons when they were gassed. And Jessie was the first one back if I recall. Should have been the last back. Would have liked the message he sent if the backcourt and Jessie never returned...as I think about it other than that inexplicable turnover on that offensive board Pickett was at the back of the deli line as to why we lost. I don't understand this Jesse hate. He was no worse on defense than the rest of the starters and only he and Pickett played worth a damn on the other side of the ball. It feels like we deflect a lot on this board when our freshman guards the bed!
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,350
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Post by prhoya on Feb 14, 2019 9:02:59 GMT -5
Seemed like the Hoyas did not understand the sense of urgency needed at this point of the season as everyone is trying to position themselves for post season tournaments. The team needs to start reading HoyaTalk.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,300
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Post by smokeyjack on Feb 14, 2019 9:11:59 GMT -5
barttorvik.com/team.php?team=GeorgetownNumbers stating the obvious, but that was our worst defensive game all year by a wide margin. Not sure how “tempo” is calculated, but this was below are desired pace and yet still gave up 90. I’m cautiously optimistic based on some signs this year, but there is a piece of me that fears this turning into last Feb/March where we sputtered to the finish line. The schedule isn’t really great going forward and by all odds we’ll be riding a 4 game losing streak into our home game against DePaul; lose that one and it gets ugly and I’m not sure if we win another game, as we will be underdogs in every other game on paper at least. My original projection was 6-12, but once we got to 5-5 hopes were much higher. On one hand 6-12 would be slight progress with a young roster, and probably falls in the camp of meets expectations given our preaseason prediction in the league. But given how mediocre the conference has been and a stronger freshman class contribution than expected, I think 7 or 8 wins and avoiding Weds should be the bar on saying we took a step forward. To me these next 6+ games will define the narrative of the program’s health in Year 2 of the PE era. 6-12 is not progress with this team’s talent. 9-9 is progress. Bingo! I'm guessing we are going to be looking for a new coach in two years. Some on here scream about our dearth of talent, but we have more bluechippers than the clown crew from SHU that just pasted us. Problem is the final product is way, way, way less than the sum of those parts. Inexcusable and indefensible. And next year, with one of the most veteran teams in the league, folks will be thrilled when we scrape into the tournament. Here's a news flash - scraping into the tourney in year 3 isn't good enough.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,350
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Post by prhoya on Feb 14, 2019 9:23:30 GMT -5
Bingo! I'm guessing we are going to be looking for a new coach in two years. Some on here scream about our dearth of talent, but we have more bluechippers than the clown crew from SHU that just pasted us. Problem is the final product is way, way, way less than the sum of those parts. Inexcusable and indefensible. And next year, with one of the most veteran teams in the league, folks will be thrilled when we scrape into the tournament. Here's a news flash - scraping into the tourney in year 3 isn't good enough. 1. Which blue chippers do you mean? Govan wasn’t one coming out of high school. No one else is closer. 2. Next year, we will be even younger than this team, with seniors Jessie, Kaleb, Trey and Greg subbed by frosh and Omer. As the roster stands for next year, we will have just 4 upperclassmen (Omer, Jagan,Blair and Pickett) with one being a first-year Hoya player and another that we will have to wait and see if he’s happy with playing time at the end of the season. I’ll give you that we’re playing less than the sum of those parts.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,300
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Post by smokeyjack on Feb 14, 2019 9:38:02 GMT -5
Bingo! I'm guessing we are going to be looking for a new coach in two years. Some on here scream about our dearth of talent, but we have more bluechippers than the clown crew from SHU that just pasted us. Problem is the final product is way, way, way less than the sum of those parts. Inexcusable and indefensible. And next year, with one of the most veteran teams in the league, folks will be thrilled when we scrape into the tournament. Here's a news flash - scraping into the tourney in year 3 isn't good enough. 1. Which blue chippers do you mean? Govan wasn’t one coming out of high school. No one else is closer. 2. Next year, we will be even younger than this team, with seniors Jessie, Kaleb, Trey and Greg subbed by frosh and Omer. As the roster stands for next year, we will have just 4 upperclassmen (Omer, Jagan,Blair and Pickett) with one being a first-year Hoya player and another that we will have to wait and see if he’s happy with playing time at the end of the season. I’ll give you that we’re playing less than the sum of those parts. That’s exactly the kind of battered fan spin I’m talking about. We absolutely won’t be younger next year. At most, we’ll be starting one frosh, instead of three. Of the four seniors you named, only one is integral, though Kaleb and GSnow have played their roles. Pretty much every team in the country has 1-2 frosh in their 7-player rotation. If you have 5-6 vets (guys who have played substantial minutes before at D1 level), you are not a young team.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 14, 2019 9:40:54 GMT -5
1. Which blue chippers do you mean? Govan wasn’t one coming out of high school. No one else is closer. 2. Next year, we will be even younger than this team, with seniors Jessie, Kaleb, Trey and Greg subbed by frosh and Omer. As the roster stands for next year, we will have just 4 upperclassmen (Omer, Jagan,Blair and Pickett) with one being a first-year Hoya player and another that we will have to wait and see if he’s happy with playing time at the end of the season. I’ll give you that we’re playing less than the sum of those parts. That’s exactly the kind of battered fan spin I’m talking about. We absolutely won’t be younger next year. At most, we’ll be starting one frosh, instead of three. Of the four seniors you named, only one is integral, though Kaleb and GSnow have played their roles. Pretty much every team in the country has 1-2 frosh in their 7-player rotation. If you have 5-6 vets (guys who have played substantial minutes before at D1 level), you are not a young team. Ummm, we aren't going to be looking for a new coach. Progress has been made on the recruiting front and on the court. Last night stunk. Our D generally stinks and that has to get better. All that being said, we are fine. Relax Francis!
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,355
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 14, 2019 9:46:02 GMT -5
As much grief as Turgeon gets at Maryland, he has 5 frosh and a soph (Fernando) in his 8 man rotation. That's young. IIRC, Fernando flirted with declaring for the NBA last year but decided to return.
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Feb 14, 2019 9:47:17 GMT -5
6-12 is not progress with this team’s talent. 9-9 is progress. Bingo! I'm guessing we are going to be looking for a new coach in two years. Some on here scream about our dearth of talent, but we have more bluechippers than the clown crew from SHU that just pasted us. Problem is the final product is way, way, way less than the sum of those parts. Inexcusable and indefensible. And next year, with one of the most veteran teams in the league, folks will be thrilled when we scrape into the tournament. Here's a news flash - scraping into the tourney in year 3 isn't good enough. I am not in the camp that we need to be looking for a new coach anytime soon. I like what Ewing is doing on the recruiting front. And Ewing's coaching grade for this season is still an incomplete. If we win 4 of our last 6, we are 9-9 and I would call that a measurable improvement. Plus who knows what will happen in the BE Tournament. All I was saying is that finishing with 6 BE wins instead of 5 would NOT be a successful season in my book at all.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 14, 2019 9:48:23 GMT -5
We weren't a good team last year; no one expected us to be.
We aren't a good team this year. That's been apparent from the beginning of the season. Are we better than last year? Yes, I believe we are. Both based on the eye test and, at least as of this writing, the various statistical measures. Are we a lot better? No, again at least as of right now, though I understand that many were hopeful it might turn out we would be, based on early freshmen performances, and a handful of victories over lower-level teams and the lower tier of the conference. We will see where things stand at the end of the year.
The trend needs to be our friend. I would argue that right now it is, even if the trend-line is flatter (and thus slower) than anyone would hope.
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Massholya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,946
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Post by Massholya on Feb 14, 2019 9:49:54 GMT -5
Awful game but the sky is not falling nor is the world Hoya blue. The trend of discussing everything at the extremes and characterizing anyone that doesn’t agree with the extreme a deluded fan continues. Oh well. My take: we are a ridiculously bad defensive team. I would think this is fixable and yet we don’t really seem to improve. It should be the ONLY thing we work on in practice. It we were simply an average defensive team, we would be 8-5 and a lock for the tourney at this point.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,350
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Post by prhoya on Feb 14, 2019 9:51:09 GMT -5
1. Which blue chippers do you mean? Govan wasn’t one coming out of high school. No one else is closer. 2. Next year, we will be even younger than this team, with seniors Jessie, Kaleb, Trey and Greg subbed by frosh and Omer. As the roster stands for next year, we will have just 4 upperclassmen (Omer, Jagan,Blair and Pickett) with one being a first-year Hoya player and another that we will have to wait and see if he’s happy with playing time at the end of the season. I’ll give you that we’re playing less than the sum of those parts. That’s exactly the kind of battered fan spin I’m talking about. We absolutely won’t be younger next year. At most, we’ll be starting one frosh, instead of three. Of the four seniors you named, only one is integral, though Kaleb and GSnow have played their roles. Pretty much every team in the country has 1-2 frosh in their 7-player rotation. If you have 5-6 vets (guys who have played substantial minutes before at D1 level), you are not a young team. Completely disagree. I’m going with facts. We will be younger next year and have another unbalanced roster. Pat needs to balance it with a grad and/or immediately available junior or senior transfer. Forgot to address your blue chippers?
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Post by centercourt400s on Feb 14, 2019 9:55:26 GMT -5
I read a lot here about lack of effort or of playing with enough urgency, etc, etc.
I think the story of the season is much simpler than that. This team is heavily unbalanced in a way that directly leads to inconsistency: they start three freshmen and a sophomore. Think about what that means... 80% of the starting lineup is lacking experience in leadership, game situations, team defense, personal game preparation, mental preparedness, etc. Govan is the only one with experience but he doesn't seem to be a natural leader or motivator. The young starters are also not the most talented in the nation at their positions, a la freshmen-led teams at Duke or Kentucky, although the Hoya freshmen talent level is very respectable. Also, while I respect them greatly and appreciate all they provide, the upperclassmen talent level, minus Govan, is simply not at an equal level to the rest of the Big East. Given all this is it any wonder that when early shots are missed and the opponent is hitting everything, that the youth that is expected to lead the team can easily falter? I don't think it is lack of effort, understanding, will to win or anything like that. I think it is a simple product of the team being heavily skewed towards inexperience. Sometimes that youth will be a positive and lead to victory but sometimes it will be the primary reason for losses. As long as I've watched college basketball one truism that has always been present is that talented freshmen play like... freshmen. Flashes of brilliance and greatness followed by mistakes, missed assignments and misunderstandings, followed again by greatness. Expecting this team's success to not be dictated by the tides of inexperience is a delusion.
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,351
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Post by daveg023 on Feb 14, 2019 10:16:43 GMT -5
Bingo! I'm guessing we are going to be looking for a new coach in two years. Some on here scream about our dearth of talent, but we have more bluechippers than the clown crew from SHU that just pasted us. Problem is the final product is way, way, way less than the sum of those parts. Inexcusable and indefensible. And next year, with one of the most veteran teams in the league, folks will be thrilled when we scrape into the tournament. Here's a news flash - scraping into the tourney in year 3 isn't good enough. I am not in the camp that we need to be looking for a new coach anytime soon. I like what Ewing is doing on the recruiting front. And Ewing's coaching grade for this season is still an incomplete. If we win 4 of our last 6, we are 9-9 and I would call that a measurable improvement. Plus who knows what will happen in the BE Tournament. All I was saying is that finishing with 6 BE wins instead of 5 would NOT be a successful season in my book at all. I don’t think 6-12 is progress but I also don’t think it would be fair to call that a huge disappointment either. We were projected to finish 9th, we lost arguably our best offensive player, and are starting 3 freshmen. That being said I think how we finish will be more important than overall record. If we finish the year losing 8 of 9 games with one and done in the BET, than I’d have a hard time feeling anything other than dissapointment. If we go 7-11 and beat say Xavier on Weds night and then lose a competitor game on Thursday, I’ll feel much more positive on the overall trend for the program.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 14, 2019 10:24:48 GMT -5
Completely agree. This a collective team failure. And I hate to be so negative but I don't see any improvement next year. We have no reinforcements coming in as far guards or wings. We need players that can defend, rebound, and drive to the hoop. It's maddening seeing opposing players drive and finish so easily and wondering why we can't do that. Greg had some success with driving and finishing last night but it was at a point in the game where their defense softened. This is so frustrating. A big reason for this is our porous defense. It makes opposing guards look great because we don't defend them well. If McClung regularly played against defenses as horrible as ours, he'd probably look a lot better too.
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HoyaDr
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 616
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Post by HoyaDr on Feb 14, 2019 10:53:25 GMT -5
Completely agree. This a collective team failure. And I hate to be so negative but I don't see any improvement next year. We have no reinforcements coming in as far guards or wings. We need players that can defend, rebound, and drive to the hoop. It's maddening seeing opposing players drive and finish so easily and wondering why we can't do that. Greg had some success with driving and finishing last night but it was at a point in the game where their defense softened. This is so frustrating. A big reason for this is our porous defense. It makes opposing guards look great because we don't defend them well. If McClung regularly played against defenses as horrible as ours, he'd probably look a lot better too. I agree. I guess I'm just utterly disgusted by our defense at the end of the day. Akinjo is a decent on ball defender, Mac is not good on D right now. Akinjo and Mac are not good as off ball defenders at all and get lost constantly. I guess I can expect some improvement in this regard next year but I doubt it will be enough. Jagan is a decent defender but makes too many mistakes/blocking fouls on the defensive end and I don't expect this to improve. Also every player on this team goes for the shot fake and cannot keep ball in front of them and that leads to easy drives since we have no rim protector. Pickett is really the only player where I am somewhat confident about his defensive talent and effort on the perimeter at this point in the season. One player, just one! Rim protection should improve a little next year but again our bigs next year will be freshmen and we can't expect the world out of them. I understand this all seems dramatic and I am giving off a sky-is-falling vibe but someone please tell me how we can expect our defense to be better next season!
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,385
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Post by drquigley on Feb 14, 2019 10:59:40 GMT -5
Face it, after the OOC games we knew we would be in trouble when we faced Ponds, Howard, Booth, and Powell. Sadly we were right. Right now success has to be defined as 3 more wins (DePaul twice and Creighton), an 8-10 BE record, and finishing in the top 6. An NIT invite would be expected and a few wins there would put us back on the recruiting radar.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Feb 14, 2019 10:59:48 GMT -5
After sleeping on the loss, I think, especially on the road, even an NCAA tournament caliber team is going to lay an egg or two during the conference season. Games where we can't hit and the other team is hot at home, and you just never get on track. The Seton Hall game last night was one of those eggs.
What separates a bad team from a good team, however, is their ability to grind out the tough, evenly matched games, when both teams are trading high-leverage possessions in the last 5 minutes of the game.
The reason we are where we are this year is because we lost the Syracuse, St. John's, Marquette, and Butler games. Those should have been wins if we had valued the ball, worked offense for higher quality attempts late, and defended at a higher level.
In reality, games like last night are inevitable losses, and there wasn't anything Ewing or any single player could have done to change the outcome. We were just beat, and beat badly. And you kind of know it in the first 10 minutes of the game.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 14, 2019 11:10:59 GMT -5
A big reason for this is our porous defense. It makes opposing guards look great because we don't defend them well. If McClung regularly played against defenses as horrible as ours, he'd probably look a lot better too. I agree. I guess I'm just utterly disgusted by our defense at the end of the day. Akinjo is a decent on ball defender, Mac is not good on D right now. Akinjo and Mac are not good as off ball defenders at all and get lost constantly. I guess I can expect some improvement in this regard next year but I doubt it will be enough. Jagan is a decent defender but makes too many mistakes/blocking fouls on the defensive end and I don't expect this to improve. Also every player on this team goes for the shot fake and cannot keep ball in front of them and that leads to easy drives since we have no rim protector. Pickett is really the only player where I am somewhat confident about his defensive talent and effort on the perimeter at this point in the season. One player, just one! Rim protection should improve a little next year but again our bigs next year will be freshmen and we can't expect the world out of them. I understand this all seems dramatic and I am giving off a sky-is-falling vibe but someone please tell me how we can expect our defense to be better next season! The big who will play the most next season will be Yurtseven, I'm sure he'll be better than Govan defensively but I wouldn't expect high level rim protection...
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