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Post by practice on Feb 6, 2019 11:27:53 GMT -5
There's been some discussion on the recruiting page thread on Malcom Wilson about him being redshirted next year. We all know that Villanova and other successful programs use redshirting often for a player's freshman year. When was the last time Georgetown did this? I recall Dikembe was a scholarship student his freshman year and joined the team his sophomore year -- he was a Yates intramural legend. Hollis Thompson arrived a semester early and practiced with the team -- but is that considered a redshirt? It looks like maybe Nikita Mescheriakov was redshirted? He did not play his freshman year but was on the team. We've had players medically redshirted or sitting because of transferring in ... but who else was voluntarily redshirted in order to mature as a player?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 6, 2019 12:12:49 GMT -5
There's been some discussion on the recruiting page thread on Malcom Wilson about him being redshirted next year. We all know that Villanova and other successful programs use redshirting often for a player's freshman year. When was the last time Georgetown did this? I recall Dikembe was a scholarship student his freshman year and joined the team his sophomore year -- he was a Yates intramural legend. Hollis Thompson arrived a semester early and practiced with the team -- but is that considered a redshirt? It looks like maybe Nikita Mescheriakov was redshirted? He did not play his freshman year but was on the team. We've had players medically redshirted or sitting because of transferring in ... but who else was voluntarily redshirted in order to mature as a player? 1. Dikembe Mutombo was ineligible in 1987-88 because he did not take the SAT in Africa, according to contemporary reports. 2. Hollis Thompson was a greenshirt for enrolling early, not a redshirt. 3. Nikita Mescheriakov was never listed as a redshirt by Georgetown, but was listed as such in his Wake Forest bio. What Wake didn't say was that he was ineligible for the first half of the 2007-08 season for having played in a pro league before coming to the US. He was listed on the active 2007-08 roster thereafter but didn't play. To my knowledge, GU never requested an extra year for him. He played two seasons at Georgetown and two at Wake, so a redshirt year was never exercised. There is nothing in the NCAA rule book to prevent Georgetown from non-medical redshirts, only that it's not been done in other sports with the exception of track and field, owing to the three different seasons in that sport. I know football doesn't redshirt, though they would be more competitive if they did. As to other sports, I don't know for sure, but can't recall any examples that come to mind. |
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Post by hoyanewyorka on Feb 6, 2019 12:21:05 GMT -5
Sorry abt the Cole & Shannon references.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 6, 2019 17:30:00 GMT -5
There's been some discussion on the recruiting page thread on Malcom Wilson about him being redshirted next year. We all know that Villanova and other successful programs use redshirting often for a player's freshman year. When was the last time Georgetown did this? I recall Dikembe was a scholarship student his freshman year and joined the team his sophomore year -- he was a Yates intramural legend. Hollis Thompson arrived a semester early and practiced with the team -- but is that considered a redshirt? It looks like maybe Nikita Mescheriakov was redshirted? He did not play his freshman year but was on the team. We've had players medically redshirted or sitting because of transferring in ... but who else was voluntarily redshirted in order to mature as a player? 1. Dikembe Mutombo was ineligible in 1987-88 because he did not take the SAT in Africa, according to contemporary reports. 2. Hollis Thompson was a greenshirt for enrolling early, not a redshirt. 3. Nikita Mescheriakov was never listed as a redshirt by Georgetown, but was listed as such in his Wake Forest bio. What Wake didn't say was that he was ineligible for the first half of the 2007-08 season for having played in a pro league before coming to the US. He was listed on the active 2007-08 roster thereafter but didn't play. To my knowledge, GU never requested an extra year for him. He played two seasons at Georgetown and two at Wake, so a redshirt year was never exercised. There is nothing in the NCAA rule book to prevent Georgetown from non-medical redshirts, only that it's not been done in other sports with the exception of track and field, owing to the three different seasons in that sport. I know football doesn't redshirt, though they would be more competitive if they did. As to other sports, I don't know for sure, but can't recall any examples that come to mind. Mutumbo was learning English his 1st year. Obviously he couldn’t have taken the SAT without a good grasp of English. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 6, 2019 19:24:51 GMT -5
There's been some discussion on the recruiting page thread on Malcom Wilson about him being redshirted next year. We all know that Villanova and other successful programs use redshirting often for a player's freshman year. When was the last time Georgetown did this? I recall Dikembe was a scholarship student his freshman year and joined the team his sophomore year -- he was a Yates intramural legend. Hollis Thompson arrived a semester early and practiced with the team -- but is that considered a redshirt? It looks like maybe Nikita Mescheriakov was redshirted? He did not play his freshman year but was on the team. We've had players medically redshirted or sitting because of transferring in ... but who else was voluntarily redshirted in order to mature as a player? 1. Dikembe Mutombo was ineligible in 1987-88 because he did not take the SAT in Africa, according to contemporary reports. 2. Hollis Thompson was a greenshirt for enrolling early, not a redshirt. 3. Nikita Mescheriakov was never listed as a redshirt by Georgetown, but was listed as such in his Wake Forest bio. What Wake didn't say was that he was ineligible for the first half of the 2007-08 season for having played in a pro league before coming to the US. He was listed on the active 2007-08 roster thereafter but didn't play. To my knowledge, GU never requested an extra year for him. He played two seasons at Georgetown and two at Wake, so a redshirt year was never exercised. There is nothing in the NCAA rule book to prevent Georgetown from non-medical redshirts, only that it's not been done in other sports with the exception of track and field, owing to the three different seasons in that sport. I know football doesn't redshirt, though they would be more competitive if they did. As to other sports, I don't know for sure, but can't recall any examples that come to mind. The Patriot League doesn't allow developmental redshirting... |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 7, 2019 7:25:16 GMT -5
I recall Dikembe was a scholarship student his freshman year and joined the team his sophomore year -- he was a Yates intramural legend. Fun times! I had the pleasure of playing against him there. I had the pleasure of grabbing his arms so he wouldn’t put it on the rim (intramural rule: no dunking). I had the pleasure of stealing one of his outlet passes and nailing a 3 over his head. IIRC we lost to Dikembe 36-16.  |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 25, 2019 11:31:19 GMT -5
Another article about a player who had the redshirt possibility removed during the season...
You see, the Jayhawks ran into injury trouble earlier this season, losing star big man Udoka Azubuike to season-ending wrist surgery. Defensive stopper Marcus Garrett hurt his ankle, and senior guard Lagerald Vick took a leave of absence, leaving the roster relatively depleted.
And long before any of that took place, Agbaji had proven himself in practice, and a pleasantly horrible realization hit Bill Self that there was no way the kid should be on the bench.
So when January rolled around, the Hall of Fame coach decided to yank Agbaji’s redshirt, and he has been arguably the Jayhawks’ best player as they tried to pursue another Big 12 title.
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Feb 25, 2019 14:03:26 GMT -5
I recall Dikembe was a scholarship student his freshman year and joined the team his sophomore year -- he was a Yates intramural legend. Fun times! I had the pleasure of playing against him there. I had the pleasure of grabbing his arms so he wouldn’t put it on the rim (intramural rule: no dunking). I had the pleasure of stealing one of his outlet passes and nailing a 3 over his head. IIRC we lost to Dikembe 36-16. My guess is Dikembe would have been one of a precious few whose games were hindered by the intramural ban on dunking. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 2, 2019 18:49:33 GMT -5
Very good article on a coach's perspective on redshirting kids...
Painter, however, is in his 15th year at Purdue, and he has accrued both the job security and the wisdom to think beyond this season for both the players and the program. He has said several times over the past year that the key to success in college basketball is to “get old and stay old,” by creating rosters of experienced veterans to counter more talented squads of players who leave early for the NBA. One of the ways he does that is by using the redshirt option to get five years out of players who would play sparingly as true freshmen. Since the 2015-16 season, Painter has redshirted at least one scholarship player each year.
Stefanovic, who was rated the No. 374 player in his class, had a pretty good idea when he arrived in West Lafayette that he’d be redshirting. It still hurt when he found out. But now that he’s averaging 20.4 minutes per game as a redshirt sophomore, the value of the move is obvious to him.
“I would not have played a second if I didn’t redshirt my freshman year,” Stefanovic says. “I wasn’t physically ready to play. I couldn’t really guard. In that year, I was able to take away a lot of things from our seniors and what they did well. Making sure that I knew assignments and making sure I knew how to read scouting reports really helped me going into my redshirt freshman year. I still have, counting this year, three years. I feel like I’ve been here forever. It’s a big thing. I’m so much more mature in the system.”
The same goes for Wheeler, who was rail-thin when he arrived in 2017 and stuck behind Vincent Edwards and Grady Eifert. He got rotation minutes last season as Eifert’s backup and is now starting and leading the Boilermakers in rebounding. He and Stefanovic have both been encouraging Newman and Gillis to take the redshirt fate as a blessing.
“Coach Paint looks it as kind of saving you,” Wheeler says. “He said to me, ‘It should tell you that I have faith that you can be a great player down the road. It’s having an extra year at the end of your career rather than playing spot minutes as a freshman.’ ”
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 17, 2019 22:22:21 GMT -5
You're right it's silly for fans to expect Gtown to move into the 21 century in terms of how programs are run... Is this accurate though? I haven’t done a study, but it seems like red shirts are used a lot less often than in the past across basketball. Didn't want to derail the game thread... Compared to when B52? Gonzaga, UVA, Wisconsin have done very well using it recently... |
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Dec 17, 2019 22:42:37 GMT -5
Is this accurate though? I haven’t done a study, but it seems like red shirts are used a lot less often than in the past across basketball. Didn't want to derail the game thread... Compared to when B52? Gonzaga, UVA, Wisconsin have done very well using it recently... Purdue too |
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Post by practice on Dec 17, 2019 22:45:46 GMT -5
5 years is more than a lifetime in college basketball. These days the 5th year in college is more likely going to take place at another school as a grad school transfer. In the 2018-19 season there were 124 grad transfers in D1 basketball - www.si.com/college/2018/12/05/grad-transfers-reid-travis-kentucky-joe-cremo-villanova. I’m a big fan of TerrellAllen and Rodney Pryor. It’s a great opportunity for kids to move up ala Rodney or move closer to home like Terrell. It wasn’t too long ago that Akon Agau and Moses Ayegba/Abraham left Georgetown for advanced degrees and more PT. If Wilson really blossoms at 6’11 and with his athleticism he will likely graduate to the NBA in 4 years or less. 5 year plans for college basketball players seem to generally be a pipe dream. Add to this our 9 scholarship players and 3 Walkons. And the fact that Coach Ewing has never ever even hinted that redshirting was a possibility. My point several months ago and today is that this is simply a typical HoyaTalk fantasy rant that doesn’t have any tangible link to a fact. I would also like a team of all five star recruits - why doesn’t GTown start recruiting like Kentucky and Duke? That would make us even better than redshirting. |
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Post by practice on Dec 17, 2019 22:48:50 GMT -5
Also guess what ... a lot of Freshmen become better players in their Sophomore years after playing. Some even improve in their Junior years. Also some like Jagan Mosely are the best as Seniors!
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Post by HometownHoya on Dec 17, 2019 22:54:55 GMT -5
You don't redshirt looking at year 5. You redshirt looking at year 2 and 3. You use it when you have a guy that has the skills to be an impact player but just needs more developmental time. Then when they are on the court they are ready to dominate. It's been used most by other teams on bigs because it takes them longer to grow into their body.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 17, 2019 23:04:48 GMT -5
You don't redshirt looking at year 5. You redshirt looking at year 2 and 3. You use it when you have a guy that has the skills to be an impact player but just needs more developmental time. Then when they are on the court they are ready to dominate. It's been used most by other teams on bigs because it takes them longer to grow into their body. Exactly. You don't want to throw someone in who is not nearly ready, that can just undermine confidence and develop bad habits. |
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Post by practice on Dec 17, 2019 23:12:55 GMT -5
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 17, 2019 23:23:52 GMT -5
5 years is more than a lifetime in college basketball. These days the 5th year in college is more likely going to take place at another school as a grad school transfer. In the 2018-19 season there were 124 grad transfers in D1 basketball - www.si.com/college/2018/12/05/grad-transfers-reid-travis-kentucky-joe-cremo-villanova. I’m a big fan of TerrellAllen and Rodney Pryor. It’s a great opportunity for kids to move up ala Rodney or move closer to home like Terrell. It wasn’t too long ago that Akon Agau and Moses Ayegba/Abraham left Georgetown for advanced degrees and more PT. If Wilson really blossoms at 6’11 and with his athleticism he will likely graduate to the NBA in 4 years or less. 5 year plans for college basketball players seem to generally be a pipe dream. Add to this our 9 scholarship players and 3 Walkons. And the fact that Coach Ewing has never ever even hinted that redshirting was a possibility. My point several months ago and today is that this is simply a typical HoyaTalk fantasy rant that doesn’t have any tangible link to a fact. I would also like a team of all five star recruits - why doesn’t GTown start recruiting like Kentucky and Duke? That would make us even better than redshirting. None of Travis, Allen, Cremo or Pryor were redshirt kids they all had injuries, to me it's different than a coach coming to you with a plan for your career... Mamadi Diakite is an example of a RS kid. The first few minutes of this clip or the article about Painter @ Purdue sells it much better than I can... The coaches theory of get old & stay old makes a lot of sense for programs like Gtown... |
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Post by practice on Dec 17, 2019 23:36:19 GMT -5
Like I said before - I agree that kids grow as players in terms of size strength skills maturity confidence etc. It is a luxury and one that is not available today. I also think that most kids who sit out a year RS probably would have been better served If they had done an extra year of HS like Pickett and many many others. Up until your mid to late 20s most everyone gets stronger physically. As it turns out, perhaps Ewing would have been better off with several RS this year and only 9 scholarship players. The fact is that no one associated with the program has ever said anything about RSing Tim I or Malcolm and perhaps I trust their judgement more than yours despite your untold thousands of message board posts.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 18, 2019 0:03:39 GMT -5
Like I said before - I agree that kids grow as players in terms of size strength skills maturity confidence etc. It is a luxury and one that is not available today. I also think that most kids who sit out a year RS probably would have been better served If they had done an extra year of HS like Pickett and many many others. Up until your mid to late 20s most everyone gets stronger physically. As it turns out, perhaps Ewing would have been better off with several RS this year and only 9 scholarship players. The fact is that no one associated with the program has ever said anything about RSing Tim I or Malcolm and perhaps I trust their judgement more than yours despite your untold thousands of message board posts. You started out by telling us that folks who talk about redshirting are out of their minds and silly for bringing it up but now you agree that it can be a positive for players. I'll take it... When has Gtown ever announced anything regarding players? just because we haven't heard anything doesn't mean it's not being talked about, time will tell... |
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Dec 18, 2019 0:28:40 GMT -5
I had a feeling on Friday after the transfer news that at least one of the freshmen bigs would start getting time during this three game stretch as preparation for Big East play.
Either Coach Ewing was planning on redshirting Tim and Malcolm, or there just wasn’t a game where the Hoyas had enough of a lead for them to get in this season.
But at this point, it makes sense to get at least one of them minutes, and it looks like that’s Tim. If there is an injury or major foul trouble, he’s going to be needed to step in for some minutes. You can’t just put him in during a close game against Nova for his first game action. You need to prepare him, and this three game stretch is the perfect time to do that.
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