hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hoyazeke on Sept 20, 2018 15:47:00 GMT -5
Are we sure that Stanford is totally out of the picture? There aren't many schools that outrank Georgetown academically, but Stanford is certainly one of them... I guess we know the answer to that question? Hopefully he is just being nice.....๐ฅ
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Sept 20, 2018 16:54:04 GMT -5
Are we sure that Stanford is totally out of the picture? There aren't many schools that outrank Georgetown academically, but Stanford is certainly one of them... I guess we know the answer to that question? Hopefully he is just being nice.....๐ฅ Or this just shows that Texas is not the done deal some have made it out to be, and Baker is not all that close to making any decision yet.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Sept 20, 2018 17:27:48 GMT -5
The extreme pressure to play for UT may backfire. Will may decide that going away to school to escape the fiery Austin crucible is best for him. I think we have a (small) shot.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Sept 20, 2018 17:50:55 GMT -5
With Pat, I feel we always have a shot with a top big.
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dense
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Post by dense on Sept 20, 2018 17:51:33 GMT -5
I guess we know the answer to that question? Hopefully he is just being nice.....๐ฅ Or this just shows that Texas is not the done deal some have made it out to be, and Baker is not all that close to making any decision yet. I think he is just really undecided and wanted to give the schools he was most intrigued by a fair shot to present their case. Seems like a logical thought process.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Sept 20, 2018 17:54:46 GMT -5
Can any of the other schools make as strong a pitch that they can prepare him to be a big in the league?
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Post by hoyadestroya on Sept 20, 2018 20:32:43 GMT -5
Can any of the other schools make as strong a pitch that they can prepare him to be a big in the league? 15 yrs ago I would have said yes. But nowadays, you don't see the Ewing, Hakeem or Shaq style big man play. It's all perimeter and little D play now. Could argue UK prepares Big Men as much as Gtown does with today's style of play.
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoyainla on Sept 20, 2018 20:43:36 GMT -5
Can any of the other schools make as strong a pitch that they can prepare him to be a big in the league? 15 yrs ago I would have said yes. But nowadays, you don't see the Ewing, Hakeem or Shaq style big man play. It's all perimeter and little D play now. Could argue UK prepares Big Men as much as Gtown does with today's style of play. I've brought this up before. While Pat is certainly the best traditional big man coach a guy could choose, are those the type of players we want? It will be interesting to see who he brings in going forward and how he decides to play his big men.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Sept 21, 2018 7:04:50 GMT -5
Are we forgetting that Patrick coached in the NBA for 15 years? That he knows EXACTLY what skills today's big man needs?
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Sept 21, 2018 8:01:39 GMT -5
That is not "most polls". It's not even a good one, in my view. But it is the first one probably most people look at. I think both schools are very strong academically, so I don't see that being the deciding factor, unless he has things narrowed down by department. I still think the combination of academic rep and being taught by Pat would have to give us an edge, but only if he takes an official and likes Georgetown's campus environment. Hope he visits soon. Perhaps the most important poll is that Gtown is ranked 3rd in the nation in terms of average salary for 1st year graduates.
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Post by centercourt400s on Sept 21, 2018 9:00:40 GMT -5
Are we forgetting that Patrick coached in the NBA for 15 years? That he knows EXACTLY what skills today's big man needs? I think that sometimes this board oversells the idea of modern NBA big men and how they translate to the college game. There aren't any examples of the Golden State Warriors in the college game... it really isn't possible to duplicate that type of all star talent and outrageous shooting ability at the college level. Yes, some teams will more closely resemble them than others but "traditional" basketball, and specifically the big man with his back to the basket, still has a place in the college game. A good, athletic big man with post up skills, decent shooting and good shot blocking instincts can still dominate the college game and could be the basis for a highly successful team. Ewing has seen it from both angles and I think it s likely he can successfully work with both modern and traditional styles of college centers. It will be interesting to see how our use of big men continues to evolve and whether Ewing succeeds with more traditional type players like Govan. I can't predict if that is the direction the program is going but I think it could be done if you wanted to.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Sept 21, 2018 9:47:03 GMT -5
Are we forgetting that Patrick coached in the NBA for 15 years? That he knows EXACTLY what skills today's big man needs? I think that sometimes this board oversells the idea of modern NBA big men and how they translate to the college game. There aren't any examples of the Golden State Warriors in the college game... it really isn't possible to duplicate that type of all star talent and outrageous shooting ability at the college level. Yes, some teams will more closely resemble them than others but "traditional" basketball, and specifically the big man with his back to the basket, still has a place in the college game. A good, athletic big man with post up skills, decent shooting and good shot blocking instincts can still dominate the college game and could be the basis for a highly successful team. Ewing has seen it from both angles and I think it s likely he can successfully work with both modern and traditional styles of college centers. It will be interesting to see how our use of big men continues to evolve and whether Ewing succeeds with more traditional type players like Govan. I can't predict if that is the direction the program is going but I think it could be done if you wanted to. I agree with you, to some extent. I definitely agree that there is more of a role for a traditional center in college basketball than in the NBA (where that role is largely becoming/has become extinct). To the extent a traditional big is a rim protector, that's a very useful skill in college that has become largely non-existent in the NBA because of the difference in rules. For example, it is easy to see how a player like Roy Hibbert would still be valuable in college. While Hibbert types have largely fallen out of favor in the NBA because they have trouble guarding pick and rolls, etc., that's not necessarily as big a problem in college where the guards/wings aren't as good (though against good guards it could still be a problem). That said, I would not overemphasize the back-to-the-basket element. I recall in a longer post on Casual Hoya, someone used advanced stats and demonstrated that Marcus Derrickson was one of the best post players in the Big East, and yet his efficiency in the post was 0.98. For those unfamiliar with advanced stats, that is a pretty low number. Basically, any other type of shot (except long twos) is higher in efficiency. To get 1.0 efficiency on threes, you only need to shoot 33%, which just demonstrates how inefficient even the better post players are when compared to other forms of offense (layups, and threes). While there's still an element of post play that is necessary for balance (and in good matchups, it can be useful), advanced stats have basically shown that unless you are exceptional, emphasis on post play really isn't the best approach. This is really obvious when you look at Derrickson's points per possession in post shots (0.98) compared to threes (1.395). It's such a drastic difference, a player like Derrickson needs to be taking way more shots from three than in the post. (Caveat: This doesn't mean there's no room for a center to play closer to the basket, it just means emphasizing layups more than back-to-the-basket play/hook shots, etc. A good example was Josh Smith - for all his weaknesses otherwise, he was an exceptional offensive player around the basket.)
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Sept 21, 2018 11:24:20 GMT -5
Are we forgetting that Patrick coached in the NBA for 15 years? That he knows EXACTLY what skills today's big man needs? Ill let you know based on how many 3's he has Jessie shooting this year. If he shoves him back on the block it wont be encouraging.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyaboya on Sept 21, 2018 12:30:07 GMT -5
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Sept 21, 2018 15:19:21 GMT -5
Are we forgetting that Patrick coached in the NBA for 15 years? That he knows EXACTLY what skills today's big man needs? Ill let you know based on how many 3's he has Jessie shooting this year. If he shoves him back on the block it wont be encouraging. I don't think that is necessarily true. I know we all tend to trumpet Jessie's three point ability, but I don't feel that is a strong enough facet of his game to get him into the NBA. Patrick helped JG develop aspects of his mid-range and defensive games last season, and hopefully we will see even more this year. But for a guy like Baker I think Patrick can definitely emphasize his NBA experience working with bigs of all different abilities and games to help convince Baker that Patrick knows what Baker needs to improve to flourish as a pro.
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoyainla on Sept 21, 2018 17:46:12 GMT -5
Ill let you know based on how many 3's he has Jessie shooting this year. If he shoves him back on the block it wont be encouraging. I don't think that is necessarily true. I know we all tend to trumpet Jessie's three point ability, but I don't feel that is a strong enough facet of his game to get him into the NBA. Patrick helped JG develop aspects of his mid-range and defensive games last season, and hopefully we will see even more this year. But for a guy like Baker I think Patrick can definitely emphasize his NBA experience working with bigs of all different abilities and games to help convince Baker that Patrick knows what Baker needs to improve to flourish as a pro. Jessie is a 40% 3 PT shooter for his career. Even last year which was his worst he was 35%. More importantly Patrick has built this team with limited good shooters so far but with lots of slashers/get to the rim guys. For that to work Jessie is going to have to pull his guy away from the basket so they dont have to finish over other bigs. As for what Patrick can teach I am not sure what he could really do for a big that cant shoot with limited athleticism. He should know NBA schemes from his time, but all NBA schemes are now predicated on bigs being good shooters and being able to switch on the perimeter. The guys I don't really want are the Angel Delgado's of the world but those are the guys I have a feeling would be attracted to Pat. Yes he was a good college player but can be too easily exploited by a good coach. I would rather see us evolve with the game not get stuck.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Sept 21, 2018 18:20:45 GMT -5
Martin Gortat says hello๐
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2018 20:09:41 GMT -5
I think that sometimes this board oversells the idea of modern NBA big men and how they translate to the college game. There aren't any examples of the Golden State Warriors in the college game... it really isn't possible to duplicate that type of all star talent and outrageous shooting ability at the college level. Yes, some teams will more closely resemble them than others but "traditional" basketball, and specifically the big man with his back to the basket, still has a place in the college game. A good, athletic big man with post up skills, decent shooting and good shot blocking instincts can still dominate the college game and could be the basis for a highly successful team. Ewing has seen it from both angles and I think it s likely he can successfully work with both modern and traditional styles of college centers. It will be interesting to see how our use of big men continues to evolve and whether Ewing succeeds with more traditional type players like Govan. I can't predict if that is the direction the program is going but I think it could be done if you wanted to. I agree with you, to some extent. I definitely agree that there is more of a role for a traditional center in college basketball than in the NBA (where that role is largely becoming/has become extinct). To the extent a traditional big is a rim protector, that's a very useful skill in college that has become largely non-existent in the NBA because of the difference in rules. For example, it is easy to see how a player like Roy Hibbert would still be valuable in college. While Hibbert types have largely fallen out of favor in the NBA because they have trouble guarding pick and rolls, etc., that's not necessarily as big a problem in college where the guards/wings aren't as good (though against good guards it could still be a problem). That said, I would not overemphasize the back-to-the-basket element. I recall in a longer post on Casual Hoya, someone used advanced stats and demonstrated that Marcus Derrickson was one of the best post players in the Big East, and yet his efficiency in the post was 0.98. For those unfamiliar with advanced stats, that is a pretty low number. Basically, any other type of shot (except long twos) is higher in efficiency. To get 1.0 efficiency on threes, you only need to shoot 33%, which just demonstrates how inefficient even the better post players are when compared to other forms of offense (layups, and threes). While there's still an element of post play that is necessary for balance (and in good matchups, it can be useful), advanced stats have basically shown that unless you are exceptional, emphasis on post play really isn't the best approach. This is really obvious when you look at Derrickson's points per possession in post shots (0.98) compared to threes (1.395). It's such a drastic difference, a player like Derrickson needs to be taking way more shots from three than in the post. (Caveat: This doesn't mean there's no room for a center to play closer to the basket, it just means emphasizing layups more than back-to-the-basket play/hook shots, etc. A good example was Josh Smith - for all his weaknesses otherwise, he was an exceptional offensive player around the basket.) I'll dispense with the 'get off my lawn' old head stuff. Cause, you know, science (or math in this case). I will say that analytics doesn't account for some things. Hoyas lost how many games by less than 5 points last year (too lazy to look it up)? And while you could argue that had they passed out to the 3 point line more during those games for that extra 0.2 points per possession (if they could make 3s), wouldn't we as fans have given something - maybe anything - to have a guy like Sweets down low in the last few minutes of each close game to just "get a bucket"? Of course, not suggesting we base our recruiting around that, but there are 5 guys on the court and I guess I'm just too old to think that every tall/wide dude on the court has to shoot 3s or be a "rim runner" (is that how we're defining a guy like Stephen Adams, just so we're clear?)
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Post by bigelephant on Sept 22, 2018 16:34:22 GMT -5
Anybody have any news on our pursuit of Will Baker?
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Post by veilside21 on Sept 24, 2018 11:15:03 GMT -5
Steven Adams says hi
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