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Post by professorhoya on Aug 1, 2018 15:55:20 GMT -5
Shouldn't the experiment be to shoot better? Seeing that the D in Kenner is spotty at best, I would think the shooting % would be higher but you're right summer league is summer league... Look at the type/quality of shots players ate trying to take. There are games where players are shooting 1/8 or 2/10 from beyond the arc. They don't stop shooting even though they are off. Doubt Coach Ewing allows any player shoot 2/10 from 3 in a regular season game. He layed into Derrickson for 1 questionable shot he took in the middle of game in which Derrickson was playing well. The other problem is it's pretty disorganized when you have players from all sorts of different colleges on a team. And it's basically pick up ball, where the ball is in the hands of the guards and ball handlers. In that scenario it becomes hard for bigs and 3pt shooters to get good touches and looks. Someone like Pickett (from 3) can get lost in the shuffle because the guards are either fast breaking or dribbling way too much and passing as a last resort.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Aug 1, 2018 16:07:41 GMT -5
Somehow I don’t ever see Akinjo or McClung coasting through Kenner. Some players have a competitive nature and some don’t. Frankly, I don’t want players that take it easy at times. I think Pat is recruiting players that are warriors for the most part.
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HOYAPLAYA
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Aug 1, 2018 16:59:54 GMT -5
I think it comes down to the upperclassmen getting to a point where you aren't necessarily playing to prove a point in a meaningless summer league game. That's not saying they aren't playing hard or intense but there are things that you will try when it doesn't matter that you wouldn't necessarily try when it matters on both sides of the ball.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Aug 1, 2018 17:13:14 GMT -5
I think what gets overlooked here is that outside maybe the freshman, most of the players don't really care about KL. Definitely no where near as much as some of the fans do. It's just something for the players to do over the weekend. Glorified pickup basketball... I get that KL doesn't mean much but it is an opportunity for the players to test out what they've been working on this off-season... Pickup basketball is one of the best skill sharpening tools players can use Agreed that pickup helps keep players in shape and work on their games. I'm also pretty sure they play pickup probably everyday outside of Kenner
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Post by HometownHoya on Aug 1, 2018 18:21:20 GMT -5
A lot more spot up 3s in regular season. A lot more 3s off the dribble in Kenner (great time to work on it). I'd rather have guys working on the harder parts of the game when there is competition then spot up 3s which can be practiced with just a hoop and a rebounding machine.
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Aug 1, 2018 19:04:58 GMT -5
Kenner is pointless. It's for players to get a run in and Hoya fans to get a peak at new blood. There's no predictive value to it. Anyone with a high motor will dominate because no one hustles back on defense. Transition D is non-existent. That's why all of the players shoot really high percentages from the floor but when you look at the 3 point percentages that tells you that the numbers are misleading.
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Post by bigelephant on Aug 1, 2018 19:45:15 GMT -5
Kenner is pointless. It's for players to get a run in and Hoya fans to get a peak at new blood. There's no predictive value to it. Anyone with a high motor will dominate because no one hustles back on defense. Transition D is non-existent. That's why all of the players shoot really high percentages from the floor but when you look at the 3 point percentages that tells you that the numbers are misleading.
I saw plenty of hard nosed D plenty of times.[ But I agree that the predictive value is not great with the exception of Mac and James. They are very good now and will be even better before their careers are over at GU./font]
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HOYAPLAYA
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Aug 1, 2018 19:56:37 GMT -5
Kenner is pointless. It's for players to get a run in and Hoya fans to get a peak at new blood. There's no predictive value to it. Anyone with a high motor will dominate because no one hustles back on defense. Transition D is non-existent. That's why all of the players shoot really high percentages from the floor but when you look at the 3 point percentages that tells you that the numbers are misleading.
I saw plenty of hard nosed D plenty of times.[ But I agree that the predictive value is not great with the exception of Mac and James. They are very good now and will be even better before their careers are over at GU./font]Is this sarcasm? I sure hope so because while I think they will be good, there is nothing more predictive about Kenner for those two than anyone else.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 1, 2018 23:10:12 GMT -5
I wrote weeks back that three-point shooting in the KL has rarely been indicative of actual shooting in regular seasons. I don't get why anyone on this board or anyone who does writeup of KL games on other sites would actually worry about the Hoyas' three-point shooting going into next season. Someone months back already pointed out how much Hoyas tend to improve on that front from their first season to their second and how that spells good news for Blair and Pickett who were our primary gunners (albeit not the most accurate). You got this Greg guy who looked legit to me when I saw him shoot in person and has shot well before at his former school. You have Jessie who could regain the form he had his first two seasons. There is Mosely who proved to be a semi-reliable shooter from long distance when left opened. You have Grayson carter who come sin with the rep of a shooter and there is the returning K. Johnson who has good form and may end up being more deadly in games as a result of playing with guards now who are better at creating. Also don't discount the possibility that either Akinjo or McClung or even both end up being decent enough from three-point range as the season progresses. The team may not end up having one guy as accurate as Derrickson was last season, but the loss of his three-point shooting can still be overcome by committee at least.
Also to state that KL play is not an indication of what players will do in a coming regular season is nonsense. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But it is never completely definitive (either in the positive sense or negative sense) across the board. How is it that people after all these years do not get that by now when there is actual evidence to counter such a point of view?
As for the continued dismissal of defense in the KL....that has become a tired go-to cliche by everyone even though that's not entirely true either. But, hey, people are going to believe whatever they want.
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 2, 2018 7:47:30 GMT -5
Kenner is pointless. It's for players to get a run in and Hoya fans to get a peak at new blood. I think your second sentence completely disagrees with your first sentence. I don't know about anyone else, but 8 minute highlight videos featuring our newest players dunking on people and throwing crazy passes are fun and enjoyable and I love seeing them. It's like watching March Madness in July and I don't even have to eat soggy hot dogs and sit in a 90+ degree gym to see this stuff anymore. Hope is a good thing - maybe the best of things - Andy Dufresne
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Aug 2, 2018 8:18:36 GMT -5
Adding two guards that can actually create for themselves is a gift from heaven.
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HOYAPLAYA
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Aug 2, 2018 8:53:21 GMT -5
Also to state that KL play is not an indication of what players will do in a coming regular season is nonsense. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But it is never completely definitive (either in the positive sense or negative sense) across the board. How is it that people after all these years do not get that by now when there is actual evidence to counter such a point of view? MCI....Isn't this the exact definition of it not being an indicator one way or another? Sometimes it translates and other times it doesn't. Like you, I'm not as worried about the 3 point shooting and that has very little to do with the incoming freshman having to perform above the norm. We have a Center in Govan that is likely one of the best in the country who I would also like to see take at least 1 to 2 more a game, two sophomores in Blair and Pickett who showed enough in their freshman campaigns that there is no reason to believe they will go backwards in year two, an experienced transfer in Malinowski that has done it at the college level and a junior in Moseley that shot just under 40% last year. I'm optimistic Akinjo and Mac will be in the 30-35% range for freshman year. I'm not sure why folks are concerned about it to be honest. The areas we need to be concerned about are turnovers (we have better talent guards but we have freshman guards) and who is going to step in to fill the rebounding that Marcus gave us. I'm optimistic on the latter with Pickett, Walker, Mourning and Leblanc picking up the slack. The depth of players that I feel we have is going to be much more of a key to this season in my opinion than putting all of our hopes into both freshman guards playing out of their minds. They bring a dynamic that we didn't have but if they try to do to much that will not be a good result and I thjnk both are smart enough basketball players to mnow that.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Aug 2, 2018 9:54:50 GMT -5
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 2, 2018 9:55:15 GMT -5
The areas we need to be concerned about are turnovers (we have better talent guards but we have freshman guards) and who is going to step in to fill the rebounding that Marcus gave us. And defense, which is hard to project. Our defense didn't really improve last year throughout the season, so I am looking for improvement there. Without better defense, it's hard to imagine us being a whole lot better than last year. I am optimistic that with LeBlanc and some of the new personnel, that we will improve. Derrickson and Govan were also a terrible combination on defense, so that could help too, though obviously we lose a lot with Derrickson on offense.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Aug 2, 2018 11:25:13 GMT -5
Govan and Derrickson are not quick or bouncy. Walker and LeBlanc can rebound and alter shots. Jessie will have an additional year of experience and have more help.
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HOYAPLAYA
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Aug 2, 2018 13:31:37 GMT -5
The areas we need to be concerned about are turnovers (we have better talent guards but we have freshman guards) and who is going to step in to fill the rebounding that Marcus gave us. And defense, which is hard to project. Our defense didn't really improve last year throughout the season, so I am looking for improvement there. Without better defense, it's hard to imagine us being a whole lot better than last year. I am optimistic that with LeBlanc and some of the new personnel, that we will improve. Derrickson and Govan were also a terrible combination on defense, so that could help too, though obviously we lose a lot with Derrickson on offense. Good point on defense. We have some potentially better pieces with Akinjo and Leblanc and hopefully some improvement from the freshman in this space. Probably should have put defense ahead of rebounding as 2a and rebounding being 2b.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Aug 2, 2018 21:09:59 GMT -5
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 3, 2018 17:39:45 GMT -5
Thought this was a very good write up, I posted it here since we've talked a lot about Akinjo & Mac in this thread... The thought I highlighted here is what I'm most leery of short-term wise for both of the youngsters, how quickly both adjust will tell us how far the Hoyas will go this season... www.phenomhoopreport.com/2018/08/03/cp3-elite-guard-camp-day-1-storylines/The Amount the Ball Moves on the College/Pro Side Vs. The Amount the Ball is Dribbled on the HS SideThis was apparent within seconds of the scrimmages starting. Even with camp directors on the floor screaming “Pass It” or “Pass and relocate” on the high school side, it was inevitable for the ball to stick with one player as he pats it for 15-20 times until he shot the ball. In the college/pro scrimmage this was not the case. The ball moved crisply, if a player did not have something within 2-3 dribbles the ball was flying around. Guys were moving and cutting. The ball touched the paint, off the pass, but that created the movement for kickouts more so than shots.
Also in watching the flow of the game, looking at the high school scrimmages, there were so many straight line drives and finishes at the rim. Hardly any jump shots were attempted and even fewer were made. On the college/pro side, probably 75% of the possessions ended in jump shots. Many of these jump shots were clean looks due to ball movement, most of which was a paint touch, kick out. Again it was glaring how every pro there could shoot the ball from range and also how few finishes there are, within the half court, truly at the rim.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Aug 4, 2018 10:22:15 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 23:47:56 GMT -5
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