GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jan 9, 2018 22:14:21 GMT -5
By the way, 49-34 rebounding, 76% at the line, and 13 assists on 20 buckets (We're 5th in the nation in assist percentage and #1 in the Big East) is not a reason to hang our heads. There is a lot to build on here.
Yes we miss open looks and turn it over. But those are sins of commission and not omission. We are a little quick, we try to make a pass a little late, or we just don't have the shooters. That can get better.
By the way can I just say; thank goodness this team can rebound. There was a lot said about how "no way we would rebound against good teams" because of our personnel and the schedule. Well 5 games in, we're 3rd in offensive rebounding and 2nd in defensive rebounding in the conference. So maybe, just maybe, effort and positioning matter because this team has no business doing that well on the boards.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 9, 2018 22:24:06 GMT -5
Both, Mullin and Ewing should return to the NBA. They have no idea how to teach fundamentals. This basketball game is a nightmare from HELL. worst GAME EVER If you need to teach basic fundamentals at this level your about 3 years too late I completely disagree, basic fundamentals should be taught/stressed on the college level..
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Jan 9, 2018 22:25:14 GMT -5
No the last one wasn't drawn up for him. One of the threes in the first was. 6-8 threes is absurd for Govan. Drawing up 6-8 threes for Govan is equally as absurd. He's one of our two best 3 point shooters, derrickson being the other. They should both get similar plays drawn up for them. They are not risky at all excerpt for an illegal screen and not the guys love the shot. Give them 10-15 of them a game and watch the offense open up. Only because he's selective about when and where he takes them. They ar enjoy the same type of shooters and should not have the same type of plays drawn up for him.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 9, 2018 22:37:31 GMT -5
General thoughts on a game we should have won but I'm pretty sure St. John's just lost it. We didn't actually do much to win. - For all those wondering why MD took so many 3s last year and didn't play inside, this game is for you. Against anyone with effective interior D, MD does not have the lift to be effective inside. He tries, but he's going to get blocked and stripped constantly, and while he's big, he's not Mike Sweetney. He helped as he could by hitting his FTs and outside shots and kudos for him and Pat for putting him in a position to contribute .. mostly as spacing and shooting threes.
- However, he drives me freaking nuts in that he apparently cannot sense a double team until 5-10 seconds after four hands are already in his face. No one on the team came, but Marcus is a special level of incompetence here. The double comes. Marcus waits. He dribbles two or three times into the double team. He waits. Pivots. Recognizes the double team and looks for a teammate. Identifies wrong one and would turn it over on a steal but it's a shot clock violation.
- Thank god for Jessie Govan's jumper.
- I do not get the assault on Mosely. Six turnovers is nothing for a Hoya PG, and despite that, he was our third most efficient player. We obviously don't want six turnovers from our PG, but I did like his added aggression, his improved outside shot and his big plays down the stretch. He's not the long term answer at PG but he's our best guard.
- I think Pat had a strong half time talk. I saw a lot of bad effort late in the first half. Dogging it on D, getting out rebounded, lazy cuts, etc. It looked like the team was punting, but they came back and fought in the second half. Oh, they are unskilled as all heck, but they did fight even if it wasn't always the right move.
- I know Pat wants to have freedom for his guards, but Mulmore and Dickerson need to stop the drives to nowhere. As much as Mosely's turnovers and Blair's quick trigger bothered me, the Mulmore special of a layup attempt that never had a chance at all is so much worse.
- There were times when the team devolved into utter crap, but then there were some really nice offensive sequences. We didn't score, mostly, but at times we ran an offense. And at times we just ran.
- There were a ton of good under the basket plays and we probably scored 8-10 points off those.
- SJU is a good defensive team, but I'd rather play a strong defensive team that can't score than vice versa. We have no chance of stopping an offensively talented team and eventually we will shoot ourselves in the foot.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 9, 2018 22:44:54 GMT -5
Jessie bails us out by taking a shot that Im sure Pat hated. Why he doens't let him shoot is beyond me. Jessie took three 3's tonight, only hit the last one.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 9, 2018 22:50:13 GMT -5
Hey, were closing in on my 7-11 BE record. Two wins against Providence and a win against Marquette at home and we're there. Who knows, maybe an upset of Seton Hall or Xavier at home? 9-9? My good sir, you have been drinking too much this evening😎
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 9, 2018 22:51:09 GMT -5
Jessie bails us out by taking a shot that Im sure Pat hated. Why he doens't let him shoot is beyond me. Jessie took three 3's tonight, only hit the last one. And if they wouldn't have called the questionable illegal screen he would've been 2-4, your point? He had 1 drawn up for him. He needs many man more.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 9, 2018 22:54:36 GMT -5
Jessie took three 3's tonight, only hit the last one. And if they wouldn't have called the questionable illegal screen he would've been 2-4, your point? He had 1 drawn up for him. He needs many man more. You want our big men shooting 10-15 threes a game between them? Um, no. As another poster pointed out, I believe Jessie was 0-10 in the conference before the one he hit. He can hit the shot in the right situation, but making that one of the main foci of our offense?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 9, 2018 22:59:48 GMT -5
Hey, were closing in on my 7-11 BE record. Two wins against Providence and a win against Marquette at home and we're there. Who knows, maybe an upset of Seton Hall or Xavier at home? 9-9? My good sir, you have been drinking too much this evening😎 To be fair, we shot 7-20 on threes this game and 6-20 on twos. When we are faced with a strong interior D, threes are actually a pretty good idea.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 9, 2018 23:04:18 GMT -5
And if they wouldn't have called the questionable illegal screen he would've been 2-4, your point? He had 1 drawn up for him. He needs many man more. You want our big men shooting 10-15 threes a game between them? Um, no. As another poster pointed out, I believe Jessie was 0-10 in the conference before the one he hit. He can hit the shot in the right situation, but making that one of the main foci of our offense? He was 28/63 in his past two years and those where when he had plays drawn up for him. It's about the only thing I want from the JTIII offense. It's a simple pick and pop so it's not like it needs to be practiced too much. His shots this year have been forced because you can tell he wants to shoot them but has been told not to. It's baffling you guys don't want him shooting open jumpers from the top of the key. We see now that he's not that great on the block so why not. If anything the possession ends with one of our better shooters shooting and not a turnover or one of our bad shooters. Besides MD the only ones shooting better this year, even with Jessie forcing shots, are Mulmore and Kaleb and both of their confidence are shot. I hate to break the bad news to you but the game's done changed. Big guys play out all the way to the 3 point line and we are lucky that our bigs are our best shooters. It should be featured not shunned.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 9, 2018 23:05:08 GMT -5
My good sir, you have been drinking too much this evening😎 To be fair, we shot 7-20 on threes this game and 6-20 on twos. When we are faced with a strong interior D, threes are actually a pretty good idea. I don't mind open threes. I just don't want our big men taking 15 a game. That would mean severely limiting their inside games.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 9, 2018 23:09:33 GMT -5
To be fair, we shot 7-20 on threes this game and 6-20 on twos. When we are faced with a strong interior D, threes are actually a pretty good idea. I don't mind open threes. I just don't want our big men taking 15 a game. That would mean severely limiting their inside games. Fifteen a player is too much. Neither Govan nor Derrickson is a good post player in the sense that they have the moves or athleticism to free up a good shot against quality post D by a tall or athletic defender. But at least Jessie will pick up fouls, offensive boards and he's got a nice mid-range. I think the issue is that MD is so easy to shut down in the blocks with even a decent amount of tall and/or athletic guys. It's not for lack of trying; he just can't jump. Jessie's not great at the power game, either, and if he doesn't get the foul call, he struggles like he did tonight in scoring down low. I don't think we should out and out abandon it, but getting Govan easy jumpers is not a horrible idea. We didn't do it all from three -- we got him a bunch of mid-rangers as well. It's not ideal, but against a good defense we have so few effective offensive skillsets. One of the rare mismatches is these guys on the perimeter. Everything is a balance, of course, but as we face better teams, that interior game is going to be less and less effective. Against a smaller or not as athletic a team -- pound it inside!
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 9, 2018 23:14:33 GMT -5
I don't mind open threes. I just don't want our big men taking 15 a game. That would mean severely limiting their inside games. Fifteen a player is too much. Neither Govan nor Derrickson is a good post player in the sense that they have the moves or athleticism to free up a good shot against quality post D by a tall or athletic defender. But at least Jessie will pick up fouls, offensive boards and he's got a nice mid-range. I think the issue is that MD is so easy to shut down in the blocks with even a decent amount of tall and/or athletic guys. It's not for lack of trying; he just can't jump. Jessie's not great at the power game, either, and if he doesn't get the foul call, he struggles like he did tonight in scoring down low. I don't think we should out and out abandon it, but getting Govan easy jumpers is not a horrible idea. We didn't do it all from three -- we got him a bunch of mid-rangers as well. It's not ideal, but against a good defense we have so few effective offensive skillsets. One of the rare mismatches is these guys on the perimeter. Everything is a balance, of course, but as we face better teams, that interior game is going to be less and less effective. Against a smaller or not as athletic a team -- pound it inside! People think Jessie improved because of the OOC where he put up huge numbers against midgets. We have seen in the BE he is OK on the block but he's more effective against other decent bigs shooting at range. I actually think he likes it more to. He doesn't have that big guy mentality on either end.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 9, 2018 23:32:05 GMT -5
Jessie has a great 5-15 foot game this year.
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beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by beenaround on Jan 9, 2018 23:49:50 GMT -5
Nice to get our second league win on the road. This is a tough league-- any road victory is worth appreciating, especially with this team. Proud of their fight after a really tough outing on Saturday. Govan with that clutch 3 was pretty incredible. Now, we just have to buckle down and get ready for a very good Seton Hall team on Saturday. This is not the place for this..but Roll Tide! Great game last night. Ok..return to regular Hoya programming.
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joey0403p
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by joey0403p on Jan 9, 2018 23:50:58 GMT -5
HAS Ewing done all his post game pressers solo? Is thins school driven or big east or Ewing driven to not have players there too?
Just curious
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Jan 10, 2018 0:10:54 GMT -5
I know it’s different because Roy didn’t have an outside shot, but our 7 ft center drilling a game winning three pointer brings back great memories of Roy doing it against UConn.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jan 10, 2018 0:25:59 GMT -5
I actually have more respect for Govan's consistent 8-10 jumper than his 3's. That's his money shot.
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jester
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by jester on Jan 10, 2018 2:03:29 GMT -5
Only saw the last 6 min and this is what I saw from the Hoyas to close out the game:
Good (when we actually ran the offense): Govan made three, Mosely aggressive take to the hoop for layup Govan three pointer
A mix of D down the stretch, but the steal and dunk was key. Mulmore 2-2 to ice game.
Bad: Mulmore overagressive on defense, puts Saint Johns on the line as in the bonus Mulmore overagressive on defense, hip checks player on baseline, they shoot two as in bonus (mulmore then removed from game) Govan overagressive on trap on defense at top of key, fouled player, should have just held position Govan player illegal screen, turnover Mosely overagressive on dribble penetration, gets in too close to basket before trying a pass to Marcus (off fingertips) Mosley overagressive on dribble once bringing it the court, puts himself in a trap by two players, loses ball Mulmore dribbles hard into paint, takes a bad angle, and throws up a layup with no hope of going in Mulmore only makes 1-2 at line
This team just makes a lot situational/mental mistakes on the offense end, rather than being quick but methodical, and beats themselves.
However, great close in that they made some key shots and got the win.
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kbones17
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by kbones17 on Jan 10, 2018 3:25:59 GMT -5
Ragged game, but I do give some credit to St John’s defense. They are quick and contest passes and shots consistently. For the most part I am satisfied with our effort tonight, clearly all of our flaws were on display but we kept fighting. I thought the minutes were distributed right tonight with Mosely eating into Pickett’s minutes.
I kept thinking tonight that we are a couple of competent guards from being a good team. Mulmore, Dickerson and Pickett were so bad that just replacing them with average ball handlers would be huge. I was also daydreaming if LJ had decided to stick around for his Sr year how different this team would be. LJ would be averaging 25 points a game on this team and would flourish in this system. Trick is for us to find another LJ to join the squad next year.
Too bad that Kaleb has gone cold. Keep shooting Kaleb. I’m a Jagan fan. He was huge down the stretch, though his ballhandling isn’t good enough to be the primary ballhandler. Hoya Saxa. Too bad Seton Hall got smacked tonight by Marquette; they will be fired up on Saturday. Oh well, we’ll be big underdogs.
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