|
Post by HoyaAtHeart on Mar 8, 2022 2:23:32 GMT -5
Judah Mintz to DePaul just breaks my heart
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Mar 8, 2022 10:14:46 GMT -5
Glad to see talent stay in the Big East.
|
|
|
Post by practice on Mar 8, 2022 12:29:03 GMT -5
Yes .. it's great to see local DMV talent stay in the Big East ... like DePaul. Great!
|
|
CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
Posts: 2,884
|
Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 8, 2022 12:34:38 GMT -5
Look, it's only fair. Jay Wright shouldn't get all of them.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,136
|
Post by RBHoya on Mar 8, 2022 12:57:13 GMT -5
Yes .. it's great to see local DMV talent stay in the Big East ... like DePaul. Great! A team of players from high schools within an hour of our campus at other Big East schools (Lewis, Hawkins, Justin Moore, Watson etc.) would absolutely beat the brakes off our current team. Even if you narrow it further, ie. kids in the Big East from around the DC area, or even kids from the Big East who graduated from a WCAC school, we'd still get slaughtered. I can understand that it's unreasonable to expect every great DC high school player to go to Georgetown. Some kids want to play at Duke or Carolina or some other blue blood (ie. Trevor Keels, Hunter Dickinson, etc.). But there is NO good reason for us to time and again lose local players to schools within our own conference. It's totally unacceptable and is probably the most frustrating thing to me about the current administration. If we had kept even one or two of these players at OUR big east school rather than a rival Big East school, our team is significantly better right now and the despair that so many of us are feeling about where we stand as a program wouldn't exist. I can understand losing area kids to schools like Duke sometimes, but there's no good reason for us to be regularly losing kids from our backyard to Providence, Depaul, Xavier, Marquette, etc. The only reason it's happening is because our staff is not making them a priority and everybody (recruits, families, and high school/aau coaches) can feel it. We're off chasing Chet Holmgren, Patrick Baldwin, Moussa Cisse, Juwan Howard's son, and many other kids who we have <1% chance of landing while our own conference mates pick off Top 100 talents a stone's throw from campus who later kick our ass on the court. It should be unacceptable to all. Sadly, it's going to continue too, as guys like Tyrell Ward and Judah Mintz will follow in the footsteps of their predecessors and smack around whatever team we cobble together for the next several years.
|
|
|
Post by practice on Mar 8, 2022 13:14:45 GMT -5
Yes .. it's great to see local DMV talent stay in the Big East ... like DePaul. Great! A team of players from high schools within an hour of our campus at other Big East schools (Lewis, Hawkins, Justin Moore, Watson etc.) would absolutely beat the breaks off our current team. Even if you narrow it further, ie. kids in the Big East from around the DC area, or even kids from the Big East who graduated from a WCAC school, we'd still get slaughtered. I can understand that it's unreasonable to expect every great DC high school player to go to Georgetown. Some kids want to play at Duke or Carolina or some other blue blood (ie. Trevor Keels, Hunter Dickinson, etc.). But there is NO good reason for us to time and again lose local players to schools within our own conference. It's totally unacceptable and is probably the most frustrating thing to me about the current administration. If we had kept even one or two of these players at OUR big east school rather than a rival Big East school, our team is significantly better right now and the despair that so many of us are feeling about where we stand as a program wouldn't exist. I can understand losing area kids to schools like Duke sometimes, but there's no good reason for us to be regularly losing kids from our backyard to Providence, Depaul, Xavier, Marquette, etc. The only reason it's happening is because our staff is not making them a priority and everybody (recruits, families, and high school/aau coaches) can feel it. We're off chasing Chet Holmgren, Patrick Baldwin, Moussa Cisse, Juwan Howard's son, and many other kids who we have <1% chance of landing while our own conference mates pick off Top 100 talents a stone's throw from campus who later kick our ass on the court. It should be unacceptable to all. Sadly, it's going to continue too, as guys like Tyrell Ward and Judah Mintz will follow in the footsteps of their predecessors and smack around whatever team we cobble together for the next several years. Ron -- 1000% agree with you. I'm not sure if Buchanan from Wilson is the real deal, but Georgetown should slouch on DCIAA and the area public school leagues either. I guess someone like Broadus helps ... but the cross country wild goose chases are too much for me to handle. Speaking of DCIAA ... Hoyas should be tracking Robert Dockery, just a sophomore at Wilson. I contend that JT3's usage of Wright and Freeman -- and the fact that neither made the League in any real way -- and Starks for that matter -- poisoned the local well for G-Town ... Patrick could have fixed that but I think he -- like Big John -- was too proud and to "above it" to deal with AAU coaches, friends and family who are way more influential than HS coaches. I've been harping on the failure to recruit locally for a long time. Ron -- would love your take on why Georgetown seemingly fails locally -- it seems like they offer, but they don't go hard on the local kids.
|
|
1427hoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 351
|
Post by 1427hoya on Mar 8, 2022 13:20:29 GMT -5
It's tough to recruit locally these days. These kids are too close to a failing program right now.
Honestly, I don't even know how you sell Georgetown to any kid, local or not, who has decent options.
|
|
|
Post by practice on Mar 8, 2022 13:28:41 GMT -5
It's tough to recruit locally these days. These kids are too close to a failing program right now. Honestly, I don't even know how you sell Georgetown to any kid, local or not, who has decent options. How about the last seven years? Pickett and Antwan Walker are the only two local recruits -- Mohammed played 3 years in MO and Dante grew up and played HS in TN. JT3 started the trend, but Patrick's local recruit has been atrocious. Plus, think of all the out-of-town guys he's missed on! We'd be better off if our misses were from Gonzaga, Dunbar, DeMatha, etc. Instead they are from all over the country. URI did NOT have a good season and Cox is on the hot seat ... but look at URI's roster -- gorhody.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster -- I'd take all of the DMV guys on that roster over their Georgetown counterparts .. .the Mitchell twins and Antwan Walker over Tim, Wilson and Mutumbo, and Leggett over Beard! Yes, it's harder to recruit locally .. but Georgetown STINKS at it.
|
|
1427hoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 351
|
Post by 1427hoya on Mar 8, 2022 13:34:41 GMT -5
It's tough to recruit locally these days. These kids are too close to a failing program right now. Honestly, I don't even know how you sell Georgetown to any kid, local or not, who has decent options. How about the last seven years? Pickett and Antwan Walker are the only two local recruits -- Mohammed played 3 years in MO and Dante grew up and played HS in TN. JT3 started the trend, but Patrick's local recruit has been atrocious. Plus, think of all the out-of-town guys he's missed on! We'd be better off if our misses were from Gonzaga, Dunbar, DeMatha, etc. Instead they are from all over the country. URI did NOT have a good season and Cox is on the hot seat ... but look at URI's roster -- gorhody.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster -- I'd take all of the DMV guys on that roster over their Georgetown counterparts .. .the Mitchell twins and Antwan Walker over Tim, Wilson and Mutumbo, and Leggett over Beard! Yes, it's harder to recruit locally .. but Georgetown STINKS at it. I am an alum and my father was an alum. His words to me last week were: "if Billy Mays was reincarnated as a college basketball recruiting coach, he couldn't even sell Georgetown basketball to anyone."
|
|
|
Post by practice on Mar 8, 2022 13:38:14 GMT -5
I agree that NOW is going to be tough ... but I think Patrick failed to prioritize this when he first arrived ... add that to a list of fireable offenses -- in my opinion.
|
|
bills
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 250
|
Post by bills on Mar 8, 2022 14:03:51 GMT -5
A team of players from high schools within an hour of our campus at other Big East schools (Lewis, Hawkins, Justin Moore, Watson etc.) would absolutely beat the breaks off our current team. Even if you narrow it further, ie. kids in the Big East from around the DC area, or even kids from the Big East who graduated from a WCAC school, we'd still get slaughtered. I can understand that it's unreasonable to expect every great DC high school player to go to Georgetown. Some kids want to play at Duke or Carolina or some other blue blood (ie. Trevor Keels, Hunter Dickinson, etc.). But there is NO good reason for us to time and again lose local players to schools within our own conference. It's totally unacceptable and is probably the most frustrating thing to me about the current administration. If we had kept even one or two of these players at OUR big east school rather than a rival Big East school, our team is significantly better right now and the despair that so many of us are feeling about where we stand as a program wouldn't exist. I can understand losing area kids to schools like Duke sometimes, but there's no good reason for us to be regularly losing kids from our backyard to Providence, Depaul, Xavier, Marquette, etc. The only reason it's happening is because our staff is not making them a priority and everybody (recruits, families, and high school/aau coaches) can feel it. We're off chasing Chet Holmgren, Patrick Baldwin, Moussa Cisse, Juwan Howard's son, and many other kids who we have <1% chance of landing while our own conference mates pick off Top 100 talents a stone's throw from campus who later kick our ass on the court. It should be unacceptable to all. Sadly, it's going to continue too, as guys like Tyrell Ward and Judah Mintz will follow in the footsteps of their predecessors and smack around whatever team we cobble together for the next several years. Ron -- 1000% agree with you. I'm not sure if Buchanan from Wilson is the real deal, but Georgetown should slouch on DCIAA and the area public school leagues either. I guess someone like Broadus helps ... but the cross country wild goose chases are too much for me to handle. Speaking of DCIAA ... Hoyas should be tracking Robert Dockery, just a sophomore at Wilson. I contend that JT3's usage of Wright and Freeman -- and the fact that neither made the League in any real way -- and Starks for that matter -- poisoned the local well for G-Town ... Patrick could have fixed that but I think he -- like Big John -- was too proud and to "above it" to deal with AAU coaches, friends and family who are way more influential than HS coaches. I've been harping on the failure to recruit locally for a long time. Ron -- would love your take on why Georgetown seemingly fails locally -- it seems like they offer, but they don't go hard on the local kids. What other key thing does DMV recruits signing with other Bid East schools indicate? They wanted to get away from the local area! If we loose local recruits to Maryland, GW, or George Mason we are being out recruited. If a local kid goes to college in Chicago, or Indianapolis, or Rhode Island then they wanted to have the chance to be away from home and really get into college life and not stay closely tied to all the links from where they grew up. Chasing kids who want to experience life outside the DMV is a total waste of time.
|
|
|
Post by practice on Mar 8, 2022 14:15:53 GMT -5
They are going to UMD and Mason as well ... and I don't think there's any special appeal to Philadelphia beyond Jay Wright and his staff.
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,462
|
Post by SSHoya on Mar 8, 2022 14:17:32 GMT -5
Simply put, Georgetown has been a devalued basketball brand for years.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,136
|
Post by RBHoya on Mar 8, 2022 14:27:08 GMT -5
Ron -- 1000% agree with you. I'm not sure if Buchanan from Wilson is the real deal, but Georgetown should slouch on DCIAA and the area public school leagues either. I guess someone like Broadus helps ... but the cross country wild goose chases are too much for me to handle. Speaking of DCIAA ... Hoyas should be tracking Robert Dockery, just a sophomore at Wilson. I contend that JT3's usage of Wright and Freeman -- and the fact that neither made the League in any real way -- and Starks for that matter -- poisoned the local well for G-Town ... Patrick could have fixed that but I think he -- like Big John -- was too proud and to "above it" to deal with AAU coaches, friends and family who are way more influential than HS coaches. I've been harping on the failure to recruit locally for a long time. Ron -- would love your take on why Georgetown seemingly fails locally -- it seems like they offer, but they don't go hard on the local kids. Just to clarify, though we share the same initials and I am fan of his work/subscriber to his site, I am not Ron Bailey I agree totally on the "too proud" item. Pops never had the patience to schmooze with AAU guys. A lot of coaches from that generation were similar, Gary Williams across town was the same way and it eventually dug Maryland into a hole before he retired. Patrick has taken some of those cues. I think local aau relationships were first soured when Jeff Green signed with David Falk (as I've written about in other threads), but I agree that Wright and Freeman not getting drafted or spending significant time in the league hurt too. Some people may forget that those two were a HUGE deal in high school. I think the biggest issue is just their general approach to recruiting though. When Patrick first took the job he was asked about recruiting and his answer was along the lines of (paraphrasing here) "It isn't rocket science. I was recruited, my son was recruited, I basically know how it goes, and I just have to get out there and do it." Which is true and fine on the surface, but suffice to say that the recruiting game has evolved since the early 80s, and even since the early 2000s when PEJr. was being recruited. I think the game is more sophisticated now, and the strategy that the current staff has employed of Step 1. Look for the absolute best players (often 1 and done types) Step 2. Tell them how much you like them Step 3. Ask them to come to Georgetown is sort of simplistic and resembles the way Patrick himself was recruited. And it's not working. Most of these kids have offers to go basically anywhere they want, and at this juncture Georgetown doesn't have the clout to really be considered for most kids at that level. Where the staff is falling short is in building relationships with coaches and others who can help acquire talent. Recruiting IS simple if you're approaching it the way Patrick is, but if you're really doing it right, there's more to it than just finding great players and asking them to join you. The best recruiters are always networking. There are a lot of anecdotes out there about Jay Wright just dropping by a practice at high schools in the DC area even when he's not actively recruiting any players on the team. He builds rapport with coaching staffs, maybe gives them advice or pointers, and sometimes he'll notice a kid who he himself doesn't want but who someone in his network might be interested in and makes a referral. Like, "Oh, that kid #20 can shoot it. I'm going to tell (former assistant and now Quinnipiac head coach) Baker Dunleavy to take a look at him." And high school coaches, who are usually dying for their kids to be recruited, LOVE that kind of thing. So next time that coach DOES have a player who is Big East caliber, guess who gets a big leg up in that recruitment? Guys like Wright are recruiting like they're playing chess, we are recruiting like it's checkers. And for what it's worth, I put a lot of that on the assistants, and thus on the people who handed him these assistants. Patrick knew nothing about recruiting when he took the job, it should have been his staff's responsibility to orient him on this. I have no doubt that if he had the right staff in place we could have done a great job of local recruiting. But he didn't get that, he got some retreads and the B team, and he didn't figure that out or make changes quickly enough. It's a huge part of why we are where we are right now.
|
|
|
Post by practice on Mar 8, 2022 14:37:02 GMT -5
I can't believe you are not Ron Bailey! Your spelling is better than his ... but I figured that your informed takes had to be none other than Ron ... I subscribe there as well. Good stuff as always.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaAtHeart on Mar 8, 2022 18:38:18 GMT -5
Tre Campbell, Marcus Derrickson, and Antwan Walker were all DMV kids also. 1 of them has logged NBA minutes and the other two met unfortunate ends @ Georgetown.
I find the so called inability to recruit DMV kids to be a bit overblown. For one, in our hay day it was the entire mid-atlantic that we were attractive to.
Our prestige attracted kids not only from DC but the NYC/NJ and Del-Mar-Va areas also. A huge part of our lore is the Above The Rim movie which was based on a fictionalized kid from NYC.
Furthermore, the 2019 team had THREE guys that are on NBA rosters currently and another that is an All American. Only one of them was a DMV kid (Pickett). Somehow that team didn't see an NCAA Tournament and then eventually fell apart. Doesn't seem like where the talent is coming from is the issue.
|
|
|
Post by AshantiCooksBurner on Mar 8, 2022 20:34:09 GMT -5
Furthermore, the 2019 team had THREE guys that are on NBA rosters currently and another that is an All American. Only one of them was a DMV kid (Pickett). Somehow that team didn't see an NCAA Tournament and then eventually fell apart. Doesn't seem like where the talent is coming from is the issue. The collapse of the 2019 season is the main reason we are in the mess we are currently in. That team was extremely talented and a lock to be playing in March until four players transferred mid-season. Even after the departures, if McClung doesn't get hurt, him and Yurt may have gotten the team into the tourney themselves. I will always think what could have been if that team had finished strong and led to years of good recruiting.
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Mar 8, 2022 20:57:45 GMT -5
Agree that the Akinjo, LaBlanc and McClung departures were devastating. These kids were high energy and exciting.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaAtHeart on Mar 9, 2022 1:21:00 GMT -5
Furthermore, the 2019 team had THREE guys that are on NBA rosters currently and another that is an All American. Only one of them was a DMV kid (Pickett). Somehow that team didn't see an NCAA Tournament and then eventually fell apart. Doesn't seem like where the talent is coming from is the issue. The collapse of the 2019 season is the main reason we are in the mess we are currently in. That team was extremely talented and a lock to be playing in March until four players transferred mid-season. Even after the departures, if McClung doesn't get hurt, him and Yurt may have gotten the team into the tourney themselves. I will always think what could have been if that team had finished strong and led to years of good recruiting. And let's not forget Terrance Williams decommitting as the cherry on top. Losing that much talent in that kid of fashion is going to cripple most programs. Whatever caused that debacle is another story.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaAtHeart on Mar 13, 2022 23:26:10 GMT -5
|
|